smk4565

All EV's are going to look like the EQS or be SUV's with sloped rear ends in the crossover coupe vein due to aero. Mercedes is just ahead of the curve, I don't like how the EQS looks, but it has a .20 cD, and that EQXX concept which looks better has a .18 cD. And more importantly that car is 3,800 lbs with 620 mile range. These EV's are stupid heavy, so either they need a battery breakthrough that significantly cuts weight or crazy aerodynamics to get range so they don't need a huge battery.

Let's see if these $40k EV Silverado's or F150 Lightnings really exist. Much like the $35,000 Tesla Model 3 that never happened, and $44,990 is the cheapest Model 3 you can get now. Maybe GM and Ford will deliver on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they only build the top trim versions for years and by the time they get to the low trim, it is a lot more than originally promised.

Avalanche fans will be happy with that Silverado Electric. But the $105k launch edition and even some of the other trims seem too expensive compared to a V8 gas Silverado LT that is like $50k. The Equinox EV looks ugly, but if they can pull off a $30k starting price then that is a huge win.

Anyone wanting an EV that wants to avoid dealer mark up, here is your answer.

This is why the dealer model isn't that good, and might not be that sustainable because it doesn't do anything for customer service. And once the supply chain catches up, there will be dealers fighting each other to sell cars under MSRP again.

The Panamera had the 4-door car lap record on the Nurburgring before Mercedes beat them. It actually has the same time as a C8 with Z51 performance package, maybe even a couple tenths quicker. Cadillac hasn’t taken the CT5 there, waiting in that and the Z06.

Looks super bland and boring, but if they make it totally anonymous looking then they can put a Chrysler bare on it in the USA, a Puegeot badge on it in France, and Opel badge in Germany, etc without changing anything more than the badge.

Electra makes sense as it fits the product and is a name from their past. I assume this will be a small-midsize crossover like Mach-e, Model Y size.

And yet this competitor vehicle seems more luxurious and better equipped... The Blackwings do have impressive performance, but why haven't they expanded that to SUVs, like Porsche, Mercedes, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Maserati, Land Rover, Jaguar, BMW, Audi, and soon to be Ferrari have done?

I thought Model S was like 195-196 inches long, they used to be, I see it is 197 now, but it was never a full size car, it’s like the size of an early 2000s Pontiac Grand Prix, much closer to an E-class than an S-class. I think the Model S Plaid, M5 CS, AMG GT 4-door, and top end Panamera and Taycan all beat a CT5 Blackwing in a straight line and on a track, and the CT5 has a bad interior. Those cars cost more than a CT5, but that goes back to Cadillac not going up market outside of the Escalade. And the Escalade is nice but there are nicer vehicles out there, the Escalade lives a lot off name recognition, which it deserves, it built the reputation for being big and full of “bling” and people pay it. But Cadillac hasn’t been able to copy that formulation on any other product.

The CT4 is bigger than the Tesla Model 3 on the outside, the CT4 just has bad use of interior space and the price on the CT4 and CT5 are too low. The CT5 is the same size as a Model S. The size of those cars is fine, the problem is they were designed to bargain basement price chosen by bean counters. They should have made them better cars at a higher price, maybe they'll do that with their EV plan. I still think brands will do at least 4 SUVs, plus everyone wants an off roader, so that could be 5 products, then a couple sedans, etc. Consumers still like variety and choice. Which is why I think companies like Tesla, Rivian and Lucid are not going to be as competitive as people think, they can't crank out new product fast enough, Tesla has brought 4 cars to market in 10 years, big OEM's can do that in 1 year. All those Cadillac's in their line up are cheaper than the BMW or Mercedes equivalent of equal size except the Escalade which starts at the same place as the X7 and GLS, but the Escalade tops out at a lower price than those two. But when Cadillac goes all EV, maybe they'll go head to head with the Germans on price and we'll see what happens.

Since GM does quarterly, I found first 3 quarter sales Escalade 30,841 Cadillac total: 95,925 So that's 32% Escalade. And in Q3, they sold 10,125 Escalades out of 22,519 total, so that's 44.4% in Q3, which is why that September ATP is so high. Look at their Q3, the brand outside of the Escalade is collapsing, which I assume is part that no one cares about the XT4 or their sedans, but also because GM only has so many computer chips, and the ones they have go into pickups and full size SUVs. And rightly so, every car company is putting their chip allotment into their expensive stuff and cutting production on their low end. But at some point, you can't only have top end models and push expensive ones, which is what it seems like will happen with EV's, high dollar, low volume

Probably 50% of Cadillac sales are Escalades, it has to be a huge percentage to have an average that high. If Cadillac killed the CT4, CT5, XT5, XT5, and XT6, their ATP would be $100k, but all their dealers would probably go out of business. ATP only matters in in-segment comparisons. I actually thought Mercedes had a high ATP given that their supply chain cuts were to V8 models aside from the S-class, so they did $75k with their 4 and 6 cylinder cars. Agree though that Cadillac needs more upmarket stuff. When they do these electric SUVs, they should have V-series on all, and they should have 3 SUVs that can do the Nurburgring under 8 minutes. And they should also have a “Brougham” trim or whatever they want their Denali to be called, and that should be their Maybach or Bentley fighter. I think Cadillac is afraid to go up there in price because they don’t think it will sell, but you don’t know unless you try.

Because Chevy, Ford, GMC are selling higher trim pick ups and Big SUVs. The lower trim stuff they cut back, the Escape is down 30%, GM sold like 270 Malibus last quarter. I am aware that people will spend $60k on a Silverado or Sierra, I question how many are going to spend $50k on a EV Equinox or Terrain or Malibu. And maybe these car companies don’t care and would rather sell half as many cars and just sell expensive ones. It is, I think that’s why it isn’t here and it was a car they had to build, whereas EQS, EQE are cars they want to build.

Right, these EV’s are a fraction of sales in the same segment because they cost too much. The Mach-E is smaller than a Lexus RX and costs the same, and of course people are going to buy a Lexus over a Ford. And this is why I think Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, Kia, VW, etc are in for a tough time. These EV’s are too expensive for their current customer bases. Unless someone has a breakthrough in battery cost.

24,000 Mach-E sales for the first 11 months, less than the GLC, less than half the BMW X3 volume. The Lexus RX sold over 84,000 in the first 3 quarters. The isn't really penetrating that luxury segment. And since it isn't a luxury car, if you compare it to the Rav4 or CR-V which are the same size and non-luxury brands, those sell about 300-400,000 a year. So if we get to an all EV world, where there is no Escape (as we know it) and the Mach-E is the small-mid size SUV, the biggest segment in the industry, they would need to get Mach-E up to the 250,000 unit per year sales level. Or Ford needs to make an Escape EV that is $28k that can do 250k units in volume. You can't bank a company's future on a vehicle that sells 25k units a year and that goes for Ford, Hyundai, Ionic, VW iD4 or whoever else. The GLC being a converted ICE platform car is sold in Europe where they need the EV offset for their gas engines due to emissions. Mercedes does sell more 500 hp cars than any other brand, and more that Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Genesis and Tesla combined. They have to pay the emissions piper. And we are getting EQE, EQS SUV and EQE SUV in 2022 and more coming after that,

I look at cars every day, The materials and fit and finish in American cars just isn’t as good as the Japanese or Korean cars, plus Hyundai and Kia give a lot of equipment for the money. I drive a 2020 Escape 5 days a week, the difference between that and a 2008 Mercedes is dramatic, and I get that the Mercedes is more than double the money, but it’s 12 years newer too. The Escape just isn’t a good car, it’s an average appliance. So GM can roll out all these EV’s but unless they fix the reasons that people don’t currently buy GM cars it won’t matter. And I think sales will actually drop because consumers may get sticker shock when they see a $45-50k Equinox EV

Compare a Malibu to a Camry/Accord or an Equinox/Escape to a RAV4/CR-V. The Honda and Too are just better vehicles, you can make the Equinox electric, and RAV4 electric and consumers are still going to buy Toyota and GM is going to fleet sale the Equinox and still sell half as many. The wild card to the EV war will be if someone decides to lose money on them in an attempt to gain market share. Tesla basically did that for 10 years and became the most valuable car company.

The FedEx trucks look good, and I think making more trucks/vans EV will go a long way to reducing emissions and noise in cities and neighborhoods. Still not a fan of the new GM logo, just like I am not a fan of the Mercedes "EQS" font, the classic is better. What GM hasn't mentioned in their EV future, is are they going to fix their terrible interiors and build quality? Because every car company is going to build EV's, so the current market leaders, I think will stay market leaders if not even gain because people are already willing to pay a premium for a Toyota over a Chevy/Ford/Hyundai, or pay a premium on a Mercedes/BMW over any other luxury brand. A Chevrolet interior, quality and resale value is still worse than a Toyota, if they don't fix that, it doesn't matter what the powertrain is. EV's will push prices up, I can't wait to see how may Hyundai Ionic 5's they sell when it is priced and sized like a BMW X3. This is why the VW iD4 has bombed, priced and sized like a BMW X3, priced above a Rav4 Prime that comes with Toyota reputation, more power and performance. It was obvious that vehicle wasn't going to sell, it is an overpriced bland appliance, terrible name too.

I actually thought their $77,400 was after tax credit, because Tesla advertises car prices like that, they give you the after tax credit price, which you may not even qualify for. And let's see if they actually build that car or if next year the base Air is delayed, then all of a sudden the 2023 model is $84k base. Much like the $35k Model 3 that never happened. The Air does a lot of impressive things, but the interior is not on Mercedes level. The EQS is an ugly car, but I don't think the Air is that good looking either. If it said Camry on the front, no one would question it. Also the Mercedes EQE is the same size as the Air, so we'll see how that price comparison goes.

The EQS has a HEPA filter in the front. The EQS has hospital operating room quality air on the inside, which other cars do not.

Agree, big oil will lose influence over time. And Wall Street is all about EV, that's where the money goes, the legacy auto makers see a company like Rivian or Lucid who have sold about 7 cars between the two of them valued higher than Ford by the investor community. Thus legacy auto maker shareholders tell the board they need to make EV's or else they are going to pull out and give their money to Elon.

A Camry Hybrid can probably bring that money if it isn't too old. But you can look at any used Toyota in about any segment and it has higher resale than the competitors. FJ Cruisers and 4Runners bring stupid money on the used market or at auctions. Bottom line is Toyota has an advantage in the mind of the consumers, that's why they are the number # selling car brand and have great resale. And I suspect they'll be fine with EV's. Anyone that thinks Lucid, Rivian, Bollinger or some upstart is going to challenge Toyota is delusional. I doubt Tesla will really challenge them at the end of the day, because we've yet to see Tesla scale up or be able to put new products on market every year.

You can look at how many 200k plus mileage Toyotas and Lexus are out there. Also look at what those sell for compared to an American car. Whenever I run values on cars for work, if it is an FCA, Ford or GM product nearing 200k miles or above, the car is basically worthless, maybe $3k. A 200k mile Camry could still be a $10k car, because there is an expectation that Toyotas just last forever.

Agree that Toyota made a lot of mistakes, and is way late. But if they pull a 180 and go all in on EV then I wouldn't be surprised if they have a line up of EV's at better prices than the competition and with the Toyota reliability/quality/resale advantage that they have now over competitors.