smk4565

We could also see Chinese electric cars come here and drastically undercut Ford and GM in price. I wouldn’t really bet on it, but it possible that the Chinese do what the Japanese did 50 years ago when they take into the American market quickly gained ground. That could accelerate the EV push.

I would be all for EV's only in 2030, but I don't think the technology will be there. Maybe in 2035. The battery tech just has to get way better and cheaper so these EV's are in another price tier. The Mach-E, Model Y, VW iD4, etc are like Toyota RAV4 size, but cost $20k more, you have to erase that gap by 2030 if you want to get rid of ICE. A lot can happen in 10 years but that is asking really a lot.

Right, next year you can, because they are only selling the top model to start. So the EQE, A6 E-tron, BMW i5, etc will all come to market in a year or 2 against it. And the Model S is there, the Taycan and E-tron GT are there at the $100k+ price point. If Lucid can beat them all, more power to them. But it took Tesla 10 years to gain traction, if Lucid takes until 2030 to gain traction and get 4 models on the market, most of their competitors will have 2-3 times as many. This market is going to be flooded with EV sedans, and there aren't that many $75k+ sedan buyers that exist, that is why the RLX, Continental, K900, GS, CT6, CTS, MKZ all died, I think the Jaguar XJ died, and is coming back as an EV. But sedans aren't where the market is, even the E-class and 5-series are down from what they used to be, and they are sort of last men standing as most others gave up.

The next generation S-class can look like the current S-class and be electric. No reason the 2028 S-class has to look like a jelly bean. I'm sure they will style it in a way that they think will sell best.

Tesla was first, so they will be the hot brand, Lucid is just the next EV brand, not the original. Also if you look at just Model S sales, they aren't that strong. The great majority of Tesla's volume is Model 3 and Y. And you can get a Model S for like $75k even. It will probably be another year before Lucid has a model under $100k, and then how long before they have a full line? I know people love these EV start ups, but any big OEM could probably put out 5 electric SUVs, a pickup or two, a van, a couple sedans and a coupe and have a full line up in about 5 years time. Because they are used to overhauling a line up ever 5-7 years. There is no way Lucid has an 8-10 model line in 5 years time. I just watched Sandy Monro's video on where he thinks the market will be in 2030, with Tesla having 25% of the US market, the Chinese having about 25% and companies like GM and Ford and Toyota being under 5% market share. Which I just don't see happening, Chinese cars won't catch on that fast (unless they are like 50% the cost of an American car) and these EV brands even if they build manufacturing capacity, aren't going to get their price down to beat ICE or the legacy car maker's price. Tesla is getting outsold in the USA and the world by BMW, Mercedes and Audi right now, and Lexus in the USA. All credit to Tesla for pushing the industry to EV's and creating competition and shaking up the market, but no chance in hell is Tesla selling more cars than GM, Ford, and Toyota combined in 9 years time.

For sure this is the last gasoline S-class. I suspect the S-class outsells the EQS with ease worldwide (baring some crazy EV credits in certain countries). So if the S-class is more successful combined with the "traditional" (read old) buyers in the big car segment that aren't looking for futuristic looks, I would think the S-class's look will be evolutionary as it always is, but just have batteries in it (which will also be more compact come 2028 when it's time for a new S-class). And this jelly bean EQS will be dead. Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens with the E-class, there will be another gasoline E-class for 2023-34 I'd imagine, probably run that to 2030 or so and gasoline then that will go all EV too.

The S-class is a better car than the EQS, that is problem 1 for Mercedes. The S580 looks better inside and out and has a better interior than the EQS. I am not a fan of the jelly bean styling of the EQS. The next S-class will be an EV only product and the EQS will basically die off so that will solve that. The Lucid Air is actually the size of the EQE, so I'd be curious to see how the EQE's AMG version stacks up when it has more performance than the big soft cruiser that is the EQS. The Lucid Air looks like a really good car, I just don't know who is paying $139k at dealerships that don't exist to find them.

This is what they need to do when you have companies like Rivian and Lucid who never even delivered a car worth more than Ford or GM. Investors only care about EV's but I don't know how the masses are going to afford them at the prices they are at now.

Lamborghini Urus global sales: 2019: 4,962 2020: 4,391 Mercedes G-class sales (USA, Canada, Europe combined as I couldn't find a global total) 2019: 17,302 2020: 12,433

And the Ferrari is coming soon, the test mules look like it is close to reveal. BMW X8 is close too which should be high performance. The GLS63 I'd say is in the performance category. Plus the Mercedes electric SUV's they'll get the same set up as the AMG EQS, the BMW iX, whatever Audi E-tron SUV shows up, it is going to be pretty endless. There will probably be more performance SUVs than actual performance coupes on the market in a few years, sadly.

That's right, they could have had a Urus, but got the G-wagon instead. Although although that looks like the 4x4 squared so maybe they actually go off road which the Urus isn't going to do. On the flip side they did buy an Aventator over the faster on the Nurburgring AMG GT Black series, but perhaps the Black Series wasn't on sale yet.

People aren't buying posters of that to hang on the wall. That dressed up Audi Q8 has maybe half the street cred of the G-Wagon. The G-wagon is the king of the baller SUVs, that's what all the athletes and celebrities buy when they want to show off. When sales drop off in 2023, they will put a Hellcat in it.

The GM 6.2 V8 is a good V8, even though it is old fashioned, they at least update it, they are pretty reliable (although maybe not as good as the Vortec 6.0 was), also thirsty but not as bad as the 6.4 Hemi. And the Escalade does have the diesel option also. I think Cadillac needs to do more with engine technology than they have, but if they are going hard into EV's and are going to be 100% EV in 5 years, then there is no point in putting any money into gas engines now, the ship kind of sailed already on that. That being said the Germans have better powertrains, as will Lexus with the new LX. The Escalade has been around over 20 years and has a following built up. the Grand Wagoneer is new, and has to conquest from these luxury brands, or hope that there are a lot of Grand Cherokee owners who suddenly got their income doubled while simultaneously needing to haul 7 people.

Many would say the G-wagen is the best looking SUV on the market. Used G-wagens are selling for $150-200k right now, that's the most sought after SUV right now. And because it has no rival really, it's midsize, way smaller than any other expensive SUV, and it is way better off road than any other expensive SUV, and it has the iconic look. They essentially made the Lamborghini Countach of SUV's, it is the most head turning USV, but unlike Lamborghini who killed the Countach off (only to bring it back 30 years later), Mercedes just kept on building it.

You can run the Grand Wagoneer up, it has 4 trim levels, the cheapest starting at $88k plus a $2k destination charge so really $90k is the starting price. I built one to $112k, I imagine if you try hard enough you can push an Escalade a little higher, but still, we are talking a Jeep against the top end vehicle in GM's top end brand. There will be people that pay over $100k for these I'm sure, but I don't quite get it, especially with a dinosaur engine that gets like 13 mpg. And maybe it sells well in year 1, but then I bet it fades. Audi is brining out a Q9 monster SUV soon, BMW an X8, there is a new Range Rover coming out for 2022 (although it starts at $111k for a long wheelbase 7 seater and a V8 Autobiography starts at $155k). Plus, Navigator, Escalade, GLS, the all new Lexus LX, massive competition in this segment from big time luxury brands. Also this shows Stellantis has no good luxury brand.

The Wagoneer isn't the top, this is the Tahoe/Expedition competitor, the Grand Wagoneer is the Escalade/Navigator competitor. This looks more minivan than it does Jeep. But will be curious to see how it sells compared to the other big SUVs, as this is price territory that Jeep hasn't been in. The Grand Wagoneer is priced $10k above the Escalade and Navigator. I don't know if the Jeep brand is strong enough to go north of $100k, but I guess we are about to find out if this is the next Escalade, or the next Chrysler Aspen.

They could do an E-ray with the LT1 V8, a Stingray hybrid if you will. And then also take the LT6 engine with turbos and add the hybrid system for the ZR1. Who says there is only going to be 1 hybrid, if I were them I'd be thinking 2-3 hybrid powertrains, especially if you can adapt one of those to another vehicle that isn't the Corvette like an Escalade or pick up.

Mercedes-AMG has the E-performance hybrid that works like an F1 car, it’s already on GT63S, it will be on the C63, S-class and SL next year and GT coupe the year after when the new model arrives. That’s 5 hybrids by the time the E-ray is on sale or roughly at the same time depending when all this stuff hits dealers. I think performance hybrid is a great idea though, will be interesting to see how they package it on the Corvette. Whether it be EV front axle and gas on the rear axle or EV integrated into the drivetrain. Hybrid won’t be the entry level, but there could be multiple hybrids. You could put a hybrid system on the 6.2 V8, the 5.5 V8, on a turbo V6 or V8. You could potentially make all Corvettes hybrids and still have 3-4 power levels.

Formula 1 is the pinnacle of racing. LeMans prototype is like college football compared to the NFL. Everything else is like JV High School ball.

All I am saying is in GM’s promo video they talk a lot about race cars, super cars, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche are mentioned by name, the best of Europe are mentioned. If GM’s marketplace machine is saying that, then the car better back it up. And I imagine a turbo and hybrid versions are in the works, but I would hope it isn’t too long a delay, because the aftermarket crowd will turbo or supercharge the current Stingray I’m sure, GM is missing out by being able to sell that direct from factory.

BMW did the high rev engine thing, Audi and Mercedes never really did, and they all went heavy on turbos 10 years ago and are going into electrified now. They don’t sit still with one idea, they keep advancing. Lamborghini had the Urus the past 2 years also. Sales are up because the existing models are up. Mercedes still has the team lead. Max is a phenomenal driver. We’ll see what happens in the final few races, Red Bull and Honda brought the fight this year, Mercedes biggest challenge in 8 years. But you could have a Miata race series and a stock Ferrari would smoke that race car. A CR8 compared to an F1 car is not even close.

Not defensive at all. I like the idea of a DOHC V8, if I were GM I would have put twin turbos on it and given it all wheel drive. And I might have made it 3.99 liter to skirt the displacement taxes in international markets that they want to compete in, but given the Corvette's price advantage to other mid-engine sports cars, maybe the displacement tax wouldn't be that big a deal and they could just roll with the 5.5 V8. My car has a 5.5 liter DOHC V8 and I like it a lot, I am sure a 5.5 DOHC V8 in the Corvette will be great there too. It sounds good in the video. Although to be clear, I wouldn't buy any of these track focused sports cars, I'd rather have a Mercedes SL than an AMG GT or a 911 GT3 RS, give me luxury and comfort over track performance. It's plenty fast. But the M5 comes in standard, Competition, and CS. The CS is what I was referencing as it is the top M5. But on a track, I'm sure the Z06 will easily beat an M5 because of weight, grip, aero, etc. The M5 CS is faster than a Stingray around a tack, but I would expect the Z06 to make that up. A Tesla Model X can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, I am sure that is garbage on a track, probably garbage on a country back road, so that is why I think straight line speed isn't really going to matter anymore, because everything is getting fast in a straight line.

The M5 CS is faster than the Competition, it does it in 2.6 seconds. But tons of stuff is fast 0-60 and EV's will make 0-60 a meaningless number because everything will be fast in a straight line. So what will matter is handling, brakes, grip, aero, the stuff that actually makes you fast on a track. It is just hard for the marketing people to advertise grip and handling because there isn't an easy to understand number like 0-60 to use as a measuring stick. I think this C8 offers a crap ton of performance per dollar, in that regard it is an amazing value. Chevy is comparing it to super cars, which is a loose term, so sure you can call it supercar performance, but there is a lot of cars with supercar performance now too. Mark Reuss said in the video they want to target BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, maybe he means on a performance level, because the Corvette isn't there on a luxury level or dealership level. But if he is just talking performance, then they better bring it. Also a lot of "race car" talk on the promo video, "race car" can be another ambiguous term, because if I hear race car, I think Formula 1 car, and no road car even holds a candle to an F1 car. They are over selling a bit here, but I get it they are trying to get people excited about it, I'm sure it's a thrilling car to drive, but it isn't a race car.

I think Corvette fans will like it, but funny that they went with an Italian or Japanese style high rev NA engine when for years Corvette fans bashed that same thing. The Germans are about twin turbos, at least recently, BMW was making an 8400 rpm NA V10 16 years ago, and I don't remember Corvette fans calling for an engine like that in 2005. Lamborghini sales are up 20% this year, on pace for their all time sales record. So they aren't hurting or losing business.

A BMW M5 does that and it's a big sedan. Lots of things can go fast in a straight line now. The Z06 has 10 less lb-ft than the Stingray, and at a higher RPM, that is what I meant about Z06 being more for the track than the road. That being said, on a track 0-60 doesn't really matter, because you aren't doing it, the 60-120 mph and 100-150 mph pulls are what matter more, and I would assume this engine up in the 5-8,000 rpm range will be really good in track environments. Still waiting on that Nurburgring lap time on this one.