smk4565

Cop cars is probably a profitable business, but my point more was if you take our the fleet sales, the retail demand doesn't look so great for the Explorer, compared to others in the segment. DING, DING, DING! on vehicles were a lot less expensive. This is my point with these EV's, too expensive. Explorer sales are 50% what they were 20 years ago, so if Ford makes it electric, and jacks the price up more, do sales get cut in half again? Not sure how that is a long term plan for success, you can't charge Tesla prices for a Ford. We'll see how GM does, if they can deliver on a $30k Equinox, maybe they can have something affordable that isn't too expensive for the market.

Maybe that is a win for Lincoln, but it isn't a win against any of the competitors, most of which are seeing double digit increases while the Aviator and XT6 are declining. Cadillac kind of has an excuse, they phoned it in early on the XT6, Lincoln actually tried on the Aviator. The Toyota Highland also outsold the fleet heavy Ford Explorer last year. I remember when Ford sold over 400k Explorers a year in the 90s, before any of them were cop cars; they sold 219,000 last year, in a market that is larger than it was in the 90s. The Aviator also had better sales numbers in 2003 and 2004 than it did last year or in 2020. These guys just let the competition walk all over them.

But a Lincoln version of a Mach-E would add say $10,000 and be in that $55-75k range and a Corsair size vehicle. The Aviator is like $20k over a Corsair, and Aviator EV could be $90,000. Aviator sold 20,924 units in 2021 down 9.3%. MDX 60,057. up 26.8% GLE 48,154 up 35% X5 60,725 up 19.9% Lexus GX 32,509 up 14% Q7 25,362 0% change XT6 20,662 down 8.6% So I wouldn't really say the Aviator sells well, 7th place in it's segment, mainly because Infiniti is a mess and Genesis is new, they might overtake the Aviator next year.

It outsold all of Rolls-Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Bentley combined. And while not quite in their price tier, they are selling for $150-200k (probably more with dealer markups) and easily the best selling vehicle in that price category. For a couple years they have said they would die at the end of this life cycle. I imagine Ford will put a mid-size electric SUV out instead, but if a Mach-E is $45-65k range, are we talking $55-75k for the mid-size and $65-85k for the Explorer EV? I don't see a big market for $75,000 Explorers. So they have to get cost out to make any of this plan work.

Not really, and by 2030 all S-classes, Maybachs, Rolls-Royces, Bentleys, etc will be electric. The rich will buy them and probably like them more because they will be quieter and more powerful than those vehicles with gas engines. And the bulk of BMW and Mercedes sales are in the $50-80k range so if they have EV's priced there that is nothing new for their consumer base. I want to know how many people are buying a $60k Kia EV6, Kia couldn't sell a full size luxury sedan for $60k, now they want to sell a small crossover for that much.

The important part of the Daimler press release is: All their top end cars are doing well, G-class at its best ever. And the GLS is the Escalade competitor, the G-class ATP is like $75k higher than an Escalade, not really a valid comparison, also a G-class is a mid-size SUV, not a full size. I'd imagine the S-class it the #1 selling vehicle in the world with a base price over $100k. So this actually goes to my earlier point, Mercedes will have no problem selling $100,000 EV's because they already sell vehicles in good volume at that price, and the upcoming Mercedes EV's should be in the GLE's price range and the GLE was their #1 seller in the USA last year. So there is no sticker shock there. Where as VW iD4 is Tiguan size at $50k for all wheel drive, that is sticker shock when the Tiguan in the same showroom is like $30k. And if Ford does an EV Explorer above the Mach-E, are we talking like $60-80k? And $100k for the Expedition EV? Hard sell at those prices.

G-Wagen had an all time global sales record in 2021. It’s more popular than ever.

Car and Driver has an estimate of 172,000 Model Y sold, Forbes best selling car lists estimates Model Y at 190,000 since Tesla doesn't give exact numbers. Either way it is the best selling EV, and it dwarfs 27,000 Mach-E and 17,000 iD4, which are both a lot cheaper than a Model Y. And I expect it will be the same story with the Ionic 5 and Kia EV6 next year, those are too expensive to do any significant volume, $50k for a Hyundai/Kia hatchback, I don't think so. Only way these mainstream brands to compete is get their price down, if Chevy really delivers on a $30k Equinox that could be game changing. But that would be half the price of a Model Y, that seems like it would be hard to do. But if they can, they can capture the consumer base that can't afford a Tesla, which is what main stream car companies should be trying to do, rather than go head to head with Tesla.

Every car company sells every car they make. Tesla sold 190,000 Model Y's in the USA in 2021, Mach-E 27,000. And the current wait for a Model Y is 7 months, yet people are still waiting for it, rather than buying a Ford or VW iD4. So when the gas cars are gone, I don't see how Ford competes with Tesla. Blackwing was really low volume, like in the hundreds, CT4 was down 48% in Q4 (although up for the year, not sure if it had a full sales year in 2020) and CT5 was down 65% on Q4. Shouldn't Blackwing be elevating those cars and getting more people to buy them? And where are the V-series SUVs?

Mercedes will be fine. Their EV's cost what their gasoline cars cost. Chevy and Ford's EV's (and Hyundai and VW) cost double what their gas cars cost. GMC never sold a vehicle over $100k before, Cadillac tried the Allante, XLR, STS-V, CT6 and those all bombed because outside of the Escalade, no one is paying $100k adjusted for inflation for a Cadillac. So I am not sure where all these buyers for $100k Cadillac and GMC's are going to come from. The Mustang Mach-E was the worst selling Ford SUV last year, the Mustang coupe had it's worst sales year in history and still outsold the Mach-E by almost double. In December the Mach-E was the worse selling Ford outside of the GT which I think is out of production and the Fusion which for sure is out of production. And simple reason for that, most of the car buying public isn't looking to spend $50-60k on a small Ford crossover. Same reason the VW iD4 is a dud, and the Hyundai Ionic 5 will be a dud.

They make 9 SUV's right now. They have 2 electric SUVs coming over the next year and the EQE, so they'll have the same number of EV's on the market as Tesla. They probably went EQS first due to the range and aerodynamics which makes sense and to get EQE out quickly after it due to how many parts are probably shared between the 2.

It's not about what they built in the past, it is about what the market wants now. The Wrangler outsells every GM vehicle except the Silverado and Sierra, if you add Gladiator and Wrangler together they outsell the Sierra. The Bronco is off to a strong sales start, Toyota sold 129k units of an 11 year old SUV that they probably paid off the tooling for in 2015. GM needs a Blazer that fits the nameplate. And they aren't alone, Nissan better get the Xterra back fast and I think Toyota could revive the FJ Cruiser with a removable roof or soft roof option. And whether those are all gas, EV or both, whatever, but Nissan and GM especially are leaving money on the table right now, Toyota could probably get even more (no Land Cruiser here, only the Lexus version, no FJ, etc.)

Mercedes isn't a pick up truck maker. They make cars for plenty of other segments and beat their competitors in most of those segments. GM is a direct competitor to Toyota, Ford and Stellantis. I don't really care if they make the Blazer another Camaro looking SUV to duke it out with the Toyota Venza and soon to be discontinued Ford Edge or an off roader as I am not buying one either way. But if I saw Jeep Wrangler sales outselling every vehicle I make except for a full size pick up, and Jeep getting $40-60k for them too, I'd want a piece of that market rather than trying to out build Toyota on a front drive, mid-size, 2 row crossover which is a losing battle for a smaller market segment.

Which of those beats a Wrangler or Bronco off road?

Chevy makes zero off road SUVs, Mercedes at least makes one. The Wrangler sold 204,610 units in 2021, add in another 89,712 Gladiators, increases of 2% and 16% respectively. And the Wrangler outsold all GM vehicles except the Silverado and Sierra. The Blazer in 2021 sold 70,325 down 26%. Toyota 4Runner sold 129,052, up 13% (for a vehicle with a last major redesign in 2010) Ford sold 8,287 Broncos in November, given a full year I'd assume they will be hitting 100k a year, they sold over 101k Bronco Sports already this year. GM missed the mark on the Blazer.

Also the EV Blazer better be an off roader we like the 4Runner, Wrangler, Bronco, etc. Maybe not a removable roof, but off road focus, which is what they should have done the last time rather than another front drive 4-cylinder crossover.

I saw the EQXX, I like that it weighs 3800 lbs, not 5,000 and I like the body shape. Not really a fan of the front end, it needs more classic Mercedes look, but it’s a concept so it will change. I imagine this is the basis for the C-class level EV.

All EV's are going to look like the EQS or be SUV's with sloped rear ends in the crossover coupe vein due to aero. Mercedes is just ahead of the curve, I don't like how the EQS looks, but it has a .20 cD, and that EQXX concept which looks better has a .18 cD. And more importantly that car is 3,800 lbs with 620 mile range. These EV's are stupid heavy, so either they need a battery breakthrough that significantly cuts weight or crazy aerodynamics to get range so they don't need a huge battery.

Let's see if these $40k EV Silverado's or F150 Lightnings really exist. Much like the $35,000 Tesla Model 3 that never happened, and $44,990 is the cheapest Model 3 you can get now. Maybe GM and Ford will deliver on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they only build the top trim versions for years and by the time they get to the low trim, it is a lot more than originally promised.

Avalanche fans will be happy with that Silverado Electric. But the $105k launch edition and even some of the other trims seem too expensive compared to a V8 gas Silverado LT that is like $50k. The Equinox EV looks ugly, but if they can pull off a $30k starting price then that is a huge win.

Anyone wanting an EV that wants to avoid dealer mark up, here is your answer.

This is why the dealer model isn't that good, and might not be that sustainable because it doesn't do anything for customer service. And once the supply chain catches up, there will be dealers fighting each other to sell cars under MSRP again.

The Panamera had the 4-door car lap record on the Nurburgring before Mercedes beat them. It actually has the same time as a C8 with Z51 performance package, maybe even a couple tenths quicker. Cadillac hasn’t taken the CT5 there, waiting in that and the Z06.

Looks super bland and boring, but if they make it totally anonymous looking then they can put a Chrysler bare on it in the USA, a Puegeot badge on it in France, and Opel badge in Germany, etc without changing anything more than the badge.

Electra makes sense as it fits the product and is a name from their past. I assume this will be a small-midsize crossover like Mach-e, Model Y size.