smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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Cadillac doesn't need to cut prices, they are still priced below a lot of their competitors. What they need to do is add more content, and get an 8-speed transmission, more fuel economy or performance, more features, etc. Just make the car better to justify the price, if anything I would say they should increase the ATS and CTS by $2,000 each and stop selling the base models that are probably fleet deals anyway. Look at the base prices: A6 $44,800 (front wheel drive model) CTS $45,100 5-series $49,750 E-class $51,400 GS $47,700 Q70 $49,600
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Waiting a model year later for a coupe is pretty standard stuff. My complaint about the ATS is it is in model year 3 and still no V-series. I don't expect a top range Eldorado coupe launched with the LTS sedan, but the next model year it should be there. Cadillac also needs more than a 400 hp V8 and an 8 speed, the others have had that for 5 years already, this car is still 2 years away. Cadillac has to steal buyers away, so they have to wow them somehow, and offer something new. The S-class hybrid isn't using the old system, that is being scrapped. The S-class plug in can go 20 miles on electric, and has a 3.0 twin turbo V6 with electric motor, 436 hp and 479 lb-ft total output. There will be 10 plug-in hybrid Mercedes by 2017 when the LTS goes on sale. Cadillac should plan one, and not a POS like the ELR, put a plug-in system with a Corvette engine or something for wow factor.
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But the S-class had the AMG models out the first model year, the coupe is here and the plug in hybrid S-class goes on sale in the spring. I hope they bring a diesel-hybrid here, they have it in Europe. If Cadillac does the one body style 2 engines off the shelf strategy, it is a repeat of the ATS. And the argument of why the 3-series outsells the ATS by so much is the ATS has no coupe, convertible, diesel or V-series.
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No 5.3 V8. A SIlverado engine in an S-class competitor? 3.6TT as the base is acceptable. They should make a 4.0 DOHC TT V8 with a plug in hybrid system and 10 speed automatic for the primary engine. They gotta step up. Or else build the entire body of carbon fiber to keep weight under 4,000 lbs, then you don't really need 500+ hp, they could shoot for 400 hp and 30 mpg.
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Escalade ESV Platinum fully loaded hit 100K with the 6.2L V8 and 8AT. So having the same powertrain in the LTS would be fine and totally acceptable. People pay more for SUVs. Well American SUVs anyway vs American sedans. Chevy can sell a $65k Tahoe, doesn't mean they can sell a $65k luxury sedan. I mean we will see, I just suspect if Cadillac takes the Escalade powertrain and puts it in a $100,000 sedan no one is going to buy it. The Hyundai Equus has a 425 hp V8 and an 8-speed and they sell about 200 a month at $60k. I would assume though that a Cadillac would have more features and a much better interior than the Equus though.
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It is Cadillac's own fault they lack body styles. It it their own fault they don't have a diesel ATS and CTS or a hybrid SRX. It is their own fault it takes them years to get a V-series out. I don't think GM has the money to spend on Cadillac to build multiple body styles and 4-5 engine choices per car including hybrids and diesels. This is why I think the LTS will ultimately fall short, they will try to do it on a limited budget. Unless GM spends more money on Cadillac they will never catch up. Audi plans to spend $28 billion on R&D between now and 2020 to expand their lineup. GM's entire R&D budget is about $7 billion a year, so in 6 years, that is $42 billion. Even if they up it to $45 billion for inflation over the next 6 years, do we think Cadillac will get 28 out of 45 of that budget. It is better than it was, at least GM doesn't have to spend money on Pontiac or Saturn, but still Cadillac fights with a limited budget and limited product line up.
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Cadillac sedan sales are down 20% this year. Lack of crossovers doesn't effect that the CTS and ATS sales have gone down. The CTS sales are down because they raised the price. The XTS is getting the generations of Deville/DTS buyer that were fine with paying $50k for a big Cadillac, that group of buyers is dying off, so that explains why XTS sales have declined. I have doubts that the current Cadillac customer base will pay north of $80k for a sedan, the track record for high end Cadillacs is not good, Allante, XLR and ELR were all busts. Given that, I think they will need to conquest Lexus or German car buyers, so this LTS better be amazing enough to steal buyers.
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Lexus was founded basically to build a car like the S-class but at a lower cost. Lexus sold their cars cheaper than the Germans and they had better refinement and quality than what Lincoln or Cadillac had, so it was only a matter of time before they took sales away from both. But 25 years later and the LS460 still sells at a discount to the German competition, they were never able to elevate the price up. Bentley, Rolls, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Mercedes all have a 12 cylinder sedan, so I do think you need one for that cache level. The Panamera has a turbo V8 and brings a big price, but Porsche never needed a big engine to charge crazy money. I don't think the Quattroporte, LS460 or XJ have the status level of the big boys. I don't think Cadillac should make a V12 for this car though, they need to see if they can sell V8s first, and GM doesn't really have any economies of scale for a V12 because there isn't much else to use it in. They will have to charge more for the LTS than they do for the ELR, GM/Cadillac isn't afraid to throw out a high price, if they make it great, then at $80,000 they may find enough buyers, I don't think they can at $100,000. Cadillac's current customer base does not buy sedans that expensive, the DTS, STS, XTS, CTS all have been priced in the $45-60,000 range for 15 years. That group isn't going to magically spend double on their next car, so now you need to conquest the establishment. Tough task, it is worth trying, but it won't be easy. There should also be sedan, coupe and convertible versions of this car.
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No chance the LTS will get to $140-200,000 even in V-series form. You need a V12 to get that kind of price, and huge brand cache, neither of which Cadillac has. Even the 12 cylinder A8 and 7-series are in the $130-140k range. I could see Cadillac going with a $75-100k price point. I don't even know what they would do for a V-series, I guess a Z06 engine, but then you are filling your top end Cadillac with Chevy engines and Cadillac is supposed to be better than Chevy. S-class will get a mid-cycle refresh for the 2017 model year, but also remember they are years ahead of everyone else, Audi, Lexus and BMW have been chasing it since 1991 and haven't caught up yet. Mercedes is also releasing 10 plug-in hybrid models in the next 3 years, the S-class being the first one. One complaint I have on the S-class is Mercedes hasn't made a transmission that can handle over 800 lb-ft of torque because the S65 engine makes 811 lb-ft of torque but they limit it to 738 lb-ft because of the transmission.
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Most consider the S-class the best car in the world and it has been that way for 20-30 years. Cadillac has a big challenge at hand, although I do think Cadillac needs the LTS. Without a flagship you are no better than Acura or Infiniti, the big boys all have $100,000 sedans. But also look at how established models like the 7-series and A8 are getting killed by the S-class. A new entrant to this segment better aim high. Corvette motor wouldn't surprise me either, but this has to be the quietest car GM has ever made, is the Corvette engine going to offer that level of refinement? Put a 6.2 liter V8 and 8-speed in there and it is the Escalade powertrain, and is that enough for a car that should be priced above the Escalade.
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I think unless the ATS gets 100 mpg, does 0-60 in under 5 seconds and comes with a 10 year unlimited mile bumper to bumper warranty with free maintenance for 10 years, the 3-series will still outsell it, no matter how bad steering feel might get or even if the interior hasn't changed in 10 years. 3-series buyers love the 3-series, they aren't leaving. 3-series sales have actually increased since the ATS and updated Lexus IS went on sale. Mercedes is making a smart play to not copy the 3-series and make the C-class a luxury car. They build luxury cars, that is their strength.
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If they make this car with a 3.6 liter V6 and 6 speed automatic for sure I will complain about it. It better have an 8-speed standard, Lexus had an 8-speed on the LS460 in 2008 I think, Mercedes had that 7-speed all the way back to 2004. I myself am a bit surprised the 9-speed hasn't taken over but the 2015 CLS has it. Most 2015 Cadillacs still have a 6-speed, that is yesterdays news. If the LTS has a plug-in hybrid, a turbo DOHC V8 then we might be getting somewhere. I am not expecting V12 power, the CTS V-sport engine as the base wouldn't be awful, but they better have more to offer than just that. Interior better blow away the current Cadillacs. I still think the bean counters will crush this car, regardless of what De Nysschen wants.
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The 3-series is the go to car for many, reputation alone will get it a ton of sales. The new C-class looks great, I have not driven one, I have driven the last 2 generations. The C400 is only 2 inches longer and 60 lbs heavier than a V6 ATS, still pretty close but Mercedes feel heavier and bigger than they are. The solidness and quietness I think translate to people thinking it is heavier than it is, people think my car is bigger and heavier than it is.
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Lexus RC is in this space now too and the V8 RC-F is like $62k so Lexus seems to have priced their car competitively. I think every Cadillac should have an 8 speed transmission standard, a new straight six would be nice also as a Cadillac exclusive engine.
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A loaded ATS is priced like a BMW or Mercedes but it isn't as good as those 2. Nor does the badge command the price. I think the ATS interior could be better, for sure roomier, and the V6 has no torque. A new engine and transmission would help. I don't think they should cut the price but I think they need to put more into the car.
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The Ford Transit and Transit Connect would have been a good blueprint to copy. There is a noticeable size and price difference between the two, they don't overlap and don't fight for the same customer, and they cover from small and cheap to large and expensive. GM should have done that with the pickups.
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"certain S-Class models from the 2011 and 2012 model years, including the S 550, and S 550 4-Matic, S 400 Hybrid, S 63 AMG, S 600 Bi-Turbo and S 65 AMG. 158 examples of the breed built between March 3rd through July 30th, 2011 have a glitch with the tire pressure monitoring system." It is 158 total cars, they don't make 158 model variations of the S-class, plus their factory can only produce a maximum of about 400 S-class per day and this is a 4-5 month time frame when only certain cars were affected. The Corvette, Silverado and Cruze are bread and butter products for GM, and the ATS and CTS are supposed to be import killers and world standard cars, but GM has fallen short on these cars with the build quality, the recalls, stop sales, etc. In W-body Impala, a cheap part that went defective causing a recall would not surprise me, but that shouldn't happen with this new wave or products. Cadillac wants to release a $90,000 sedan, why should anyone think it won't be recalled and have defective parts in it just like all the other GM cars? It is in their DNA to cost cut now and hope no one notices later.
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Agreed on the mini pickup, the Canyon/Colorado should have been in the $20-32k range, since the Silverado/Sierra start around $26k. In fact if you go to the GMC website it shows the Canyon with a base price of $26,725 and the Sierra with a price of $26,075. Doesn't make sense.
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376 is a lot less than the 130,000 Toyotas recalled last week or the 25,000,000 vehicles that GM recalled this year. Every car maker has recalls, but the concerning thing of GM is it is almost every model over 10 year span. And after the first round the GM defenders said that the recalls were addressing old problems and the old way of doing business, while the new products were world class. Well the new products designed after bankruptcy are basically no better than the pre-bankruptcy stuff.
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MB has nothing to do with it. They recalled under 1,000 cars in 2013 and don't have an image problem. GM has recalled 25 million cars this year, if all of them were 2004-2009 pre bankruptcy cars that would be one thing. But when The Cruze, ATS, CTS, C7 are getting hit with stop sales and recalls that is a problem. Those cars are from the new GM that is supposed to fix the old mess, but it looks like more of the same old GM.
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Can GM get any car right? Everything they build has a stop sale or recall. Car and Driver had a long term test Corvette and the engine blew after 6,000 miles.
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I'd rather have a diesel GLK.
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Quite possibly the most beautiful car ever, at least in profile
smk4565 replied to Intrepidation's topic in Aston Martin
Wind tunnel and pedestrian impact standards rule all. -
Dodge News: 2015 Dodge Viper Gets A $15,000 Price Cut
smk4565 replied to William Maley's topic in Dodge
Price cut makes sense, the interior on a Viper might be worse than what you get in a Dart. The Corvette interior has always been better than the Viper and the Corvette is cheaper. And there are new sports cars like the Jaguar F-type which have style, the Mercedes AMG GT is coming, old standbys like the 911 are still there. There are a lot of fast cars for $100k that are more of a total package. -
Jaguar News: The Cat Strikes! Jaguar Reveals The 2016 XE
smk4565 replied to William Maley's topic in Jaguar
I would imagine the 2.0T is the base engine, I would guess $36-38k for base price. An XF starts at $50k, Jaguars aren't priced to be the value leader in the segment. They already confirmed the 340 hp 3.0T for the "S" model and I bet they price that near $50k similar to the C400 pricing. I don't know if they did enough though to price like a Mercedes or BMW and get enough sales to avoid massive discounts to clear them off dealer lots.
