smk4565

A 270 hp CT6 is adequate because there is also a 335hp CT6 and a plug-in Hybrid with 335 hp and 432 lb-ft of torque and a 400 hp twin-turbo V6.... and a twin turbo V8 coming that is most likely well over 500 horsepower. This^^^ HE acts as if the CT6 is in a bubble and a base engine is its only choice. I know it isn't the only choice. So why not offer a lower priced Corvette with a 335 hp V6 and 8-speed automatic. 15 years ago the Corvette had 345 hp and a 4-speed automatic, granted that V8 had a lot more torque than the V6. I say make the Corvette more attainable, it is a Chevy, not a $250,000 exotic. Corvette average buyer age is 59 years old, offering a V6 version at $47,000 could bring that down a bit. And you still have the 460 hp V8 and 600 hp supercharged V8 as options. As far as the Camaro goes, I think at some point with every car you have to stop, and then another car takes over. There isn't a 410 hp Impala SS because there is a 410 hp XTS V-sport, and they want you to move up to Cadillac if you want more than the standard car. Camaro should be $25-50k with the 3 engine choices they have outlined, offer a low weight track package option for enthusiasts. If 460 hp isn't enough for you, then you buy a Corvette or a Cadillac. A Camaro costing more than a CTS-V as was the case a couple years ago doesn't make sense.

What may hurt Cadillac is doing the "Dare Greatly" ads that are just Cadillac brand ads, but don't focus on any particular vehicle. Perhaps they don't want to advertise the ATS and CTS names because they are dumping them. But I still see dedicated E-class ads and it is in its 6th model year. They didn't give up on advertising it because it is an old model. And GM often advertises the heck out of new cars then forgets about them after 2 years (with exception of pickups).

An Impala 2LT is $31k, a base Lacrosse is also $31k. An Impala LTZ is $35k. The Regal starts at $27k while a Malibu LTZ is $29k, and a Malibu 2LT is $28k. Traverse 2LT is $37k, a Traverse LTZ is $42k. The Enclave bases at $39k. Right now the base Buicks are priced more like Chevrolet LT trim, rather than the LTZ trim.

To OldsHusrt's point about the Corvette being a 911/Ferrari competitor. It isn't and you don't want it to be. If the Corvette was going to go to that level you are looking at $125,000 base price, $175,000 Z06, and if they did another ZR1, possibly $225,000. Then people that buy Corvettes can't afford a Corvette. Saying Corvette needs to compete with the Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo is like saying Chevy needs a sedan to fight Bentley. It isn't Chevy's job to fight the $100k battle, that is Cadillac's. Cadillac is the flagship brand of GM. The serious technology and high dollar cars belong at Cadillac. The Corvette should forever be front engine, rear drive, reasonably priced sports car. If GM wants a mid-engine supercar, then give it to Cadillac to compete with the Audi R8. If they are going to make a luxury sports car to compete with the 911 and AMG GT, give it to Cadillac. If GM for some crazy reason wants to build a 1,000 hp hybrid to battle the Ferrari LaFerrari or McLaren P1, give that to Cadillac too.

A 270 hp CT6 is adequate because there is also a 335hp CT6 and a plug-in Hybrid with 335 hp and 432 lb-ft of torque and a 400 hp twin-turbo V6.... and a twin turbo V8 coming that is most likely well over 500 horsepower. So would you be in favor of a 335 hp V6 Corvette for $47,000? Personally, I think they should make such a car to expand the Corvette brand, and a V6/8-speed Corvette should still hit 60 in 5 seconds maybe less, it is a 3200 lb car. And there is a V8 and supercharged V8 if you want more. I do think though that the CTS and CT6 should have a standard V6. I am game for the 2.0T in the ATS, and I would be fine with a 2.0T plug in hybrid on CTS/CT6 because then you are back to 350 hp/torque. As far as Corvettes sold in other dealerships, absolutely not. It is a Chevy, it gets sold in a Chevy dealership. They don't sell Escalades at the Buick dealership.

BMW drivers wouldn't buy a Chevy even if the Camaro had 1,000 hp. If you want more performance than a 460 hp Camaro, there is Corvette. That is why you have two sports cars, why there is Cadillac V-series. Porsche doesn't put 500 hp in the Cayman, if you want that you have to get a 911. I'd be in favor of a track model Camaro Z28 with the same 460 hp V8 as the SS, but they could do a rear seat delete and cut weight, beef up the brakes and suspension. A 270 hp Cadillac CT6 adequate but a 460 hp Camaro is not enough? That doesn't make sense.

Keeping those base cloth trim, 2.4 liter engines etc is like old GM. When you could get a Buick or Pontiac for the same price as a Chevy pretty much. The Buick base model should basically be like the Chevy LTZ, then Buick can still offer a trim above that to set themselves apart.

From my friend the Buick dealer, the configurations that do best are the "medium" ones. Base models with cloth seats and few options are hard to move. High end ones with expensive tech are hard to move. The easiest sellers are typically anything with leather and 2 or more of the three options: NAV, Sunroof, AWD, Heated Seats. So why not make all that stuff standard. Base a Verano at $26k, Regal at $30k, LaCrosse at $35k. Basically about where the Chevy counter part ends on price. They must need those base models for some reason, unless the base models are all rental cars.

Chevy dealers will never allow the Corvette to leave their building. The Camaro should be $25-50k max. You don't need a $60-80k 550 hp Camaro, the volume is low and that is why Corvette or even Cadillac exist. If a V8 Camaro bases under $40k, you still have $10k of room to add track options and to me 460 hp is enough for a Camaro. You don't want a 550 hp hp Camaro for $50k that out performs a $65k ATS-V. The Corvette should actually put an engine below the 460 hp Stingray model. If they can put a 4-cyinder in a CT6, then surly they can put a 335 V6 in a Corvette for $47k (every GM fan says the 335 hp V6 is good enough for Cadillac so it is good enough for a Corvette which weighs even less), then the Sting Ray picks up at $55k where it is now. Z06 would be the top end at $80k or whatever it is. That expands Corvette sales and keeps it more the everyman's sports car, as it has always been. Corvette isn't on par with Porsche, even Cadillacs don't have interiors/build quality of Porsche. It should be Cadillac's job to go after Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Maserati, Jaguar. Not Corvette. GM thinks the Corvette is the ultimate sports car, but it isn't even close. Let the Corvette be what it always was, a good performance per dollar car, there is nothing wrong with sticking with a formula that works. If GM wants to build grand touring coupes or super cars or even hyper cars, that is Cadillac.

I don't think Lincoln selling the MKZ at $27k with a 180 hp 4-cylinder is the way to maintain any type of luxury or premium brand status. Lincoln has some engine options too, the MKZ has the 2.0T, hybrid and V6, so 3 choices are there. Buick needs lower trims I'd guess because that is where the bulk of their sales are. Probably a lot of older buyers that don't want technology or engine power, but want a Buick, and a 200 hp Lacrosse with leather and power locks/windows/seats is all they need because that is what their LeSabre had. Buick commands about a $4-5k price premium over the Chevy counterpart, the Lincolns are about $10k over the Ford. Same basic principal for both brands, Buick just goes one step above Chevy while Lincoln goes 2 above Ford.

Ford competes with Chevy, Toyota, Kia, Honda. Casa makes a good point in that Buick and Lincoln have the same business model. Both take the Chevy/Ford and build a mechanical twin with different bodies and interior trim. Lincoln does it to a slightly higher price point though, so the Lincoln brand is a notch above Buick in my mind. The Regal is $28k, the MKZ is $35k. The Lacrosse is $31k, the MKS is $38k. The Regal is a slow seller now, if it costs MKZ money it would have zero sales. If the Lacrosse had a base of $38k like an MKS or ES350, bye bye 50% of the sales. As he also mentioned about Lincoln finding a proper spot in the market, they might as well do a Lincoln Focus for $28k as an entry level car. Lincoln to be viable really needs to be a small car at $28k, a mid-sizer at $34k, and a full size around $44k. Then 3 crossovers, MKC, MKC are in place, I'd price them at $32k and $38K then do a $48k crossover Navigator off Explorer, dump the body on frame big truck. Lincoln has to be a brand for people that want something nicer than average but don't care about 0-60 performance, Nurburgring handling, 400 hp engines, etc.

Doesn't seem all that different than what they do now. Porsche was sort of always it's own thing, and Audi/Lamborghini are already part of one unit. But I am sure some changes were to happen once Piech was gone because he fought the rest of the board all the time.

This could be a separate argument over what the Corvette should be. The Corvette was always more of a value sports car, at like $50k. But the Corvette fan base has been willing to spend more money on Corvettes so they added higher trim levels. I don't think any Corvette should top $100,000 though. If GM wants a 600 hp, 200 mph car then that should be a Cadillac. Corvette is a Chevy, you can't sell it at a Cadillac dealer or make Corvette it's own brand. So if Chevy can't handle people buying a $100k car they shouldn't sell one. Case in point, a top end Chevrolet Corvette costs more than any Cadillac. Why does a Chevy cost more than a top end Cadillac? You can't buy a VW that costs more than an S8 or R8, can't buy an Audi that costs more than a Bentley, etc.

I am not an Audi fan, but they basically only share the turbo 4 with VW. Audi has it's own 6, 8 and 12 cylinder engines. Most Cadillac V6s are the same 3.6 liter in a Chevy, with the exception of the twin turbo V6s in the V-sports. Cadillac doesn't have their own V8, doesn't have a V12. I think Audi is the worst of the 3 German brands though, Cadillac needs to be aiming above them. I think the CT6 will actually make little impact for Cadilac, changing the ATS and CTS names and having to spend dollars on new marketing is a risky sales move. The Escalade can't hold them up forever.

Hard to compare where people are going, you have to compare these brands where they are now. You can't say that in 5 years Lincoln will have product X or Buick will have product Y and that will put them on par with Lexus. Hyundai built the Equus, they aren't exactly on par with Lexus as a brand. Buick does not compete with Lexus, that is Cadillac's job. And right now the IS outsells the ATS, the RX outsells the XTS, the ES outsells the XTS, the GS and CTS sell about the same, Cadillac doesn't even have an LS460 competitor. Cadillac has the Escalade over the LX570 as their big advantage over Lexus. This is part of what holds Cadillac back. GM wants GMC Denali to be a luxury truck brand, they want Buick to compete with Lexus, the Corvette has to be the fastest car at GM, etc. Where does all that leave Cadillac? The fastest car at GM should be a Cadillac, give them a mid-engine V12 super car, or twin turbo V8 hybrid like the Porsche 918 or McLaren P1. The most luxurious crossovers, best looking convertibles, most luxurious sedans at GM should all be Cadillacs. The worst Cadillac product should always be better than the best Buick, Checy or GMC product. That is what a flagship brand does. The worst Bentley is better than the best Audi for example.

HA! That is funny! Cadillac is going away from that. The XTS will be history, so is the SRX...now...what bones will the SRX have? Well, it might not be bespoke Cadillac trickled down to Chevy like the Alpha platform is....but then again...a new SRX might very well be on the Alpha platform...but then again...it might have Chevy bones first...like the 'Slade is....so what? On another thread... you admitted to knowing that in Europe...both BMW and Mercedes use the 3 Series and 2 Series and the C Class and E Class and now with the CLA as mainstream and fleet vehicles...but I guess that is OK with you...but God forbid that GM does that with Cadillac and their lesser vehicles... Oh...Audi...yeah..lets talk about Audi...actually...YOU tell ME what Audi platform is actually bespoke to Audi...a platform that is NOT used by Volkswagen or Seat...on the lesser vehicles of course...but then again...a Cayenne Porsche is also a VW...a Audi A8 is also a Volkswagen...I guess that is a pass because the VW versions are expensive as hell...but then again...Chevy Tahoes dont come cheap either... Cadillac is going away from it, but not there yet, that is why I said they are sort of split right now between 2 worlds. But even the ATS/CTS/CT6 turbo 4 and V6 are the same engine in a Camaro. The Germans can fleet sale in Europe because Cadillac, Infiniti, Acura, Lincoln aren't there, and Lexus is a blip on the radar. If Cadillac fleets themselves out here, it would probably hurt their image even more. Audi has a lot of it's own stuff. The MLB platform is used on Audi A4-A8 and Porsche Macan, the 3.0 supercharged V6 is Audi only, the 4.0 TT V8 is Audi/Bentley only, the W12 is Audi/Bentley only, and the Quattro AWD system is different than the VW 4Motion system. Quattro runs in a 50/50 split, while VW is primarily FWD until the rear wheels slip. The Audi A3/Q3 are using a VW chassis, engine and awd system. The Toureg/Q7/Cayenne share a lot of mechanicals also.

Ford needs a luxury brand, you can't scale one brand from mainstream all they up as Kia/Hyundai are proving. Luxury cars provide margins, every auto maker wants that. Problem is Ford's luxury brand builds dressed up Fords and the consumers know it. Cadillac sort of has one foot in the RWD performance luxury philosophy and one foot in the build from the Chevy parts bin mentality. That is why Cadillac is more successful than Lincoln, but not as successful as the Germans. Simple as that.

Let me make an example of why features don't necessarily equal luxury. The Kia Forte has a heated steering wheel and heated and cooled driver's seat. The BMW 5-series has the same features. Is the Forte on par with the 5-series? Hell no. You have to look at build quality of a car, quality of leather, carpets, wood, plastics, metal, etc. Just because Ford Titanium has ventilated seats or self park, doesn't make it a luxury car. I don't think Buick is a luxury brand either, they are more of a premium trim on every model sort of brand. But Kia, Hyundai, and Toyota have "Limited" models, Chrysler has the "C" models, all these brands have premium trim levels. The difference between those cars and the performance luxury cars is the engineering. I drove a 2010 or 2011 MKZ back when I was car shopping to see what it was like and I felt it drove like a Ford, handled like a Ford, the engine was noisy and unrefined. Yes it had THX sound, sunroof, heated and cooled seats, but I could tell it was built like junk. The rear drive performance luxury cars are engineered to a higher standard.

Irrelevant.. Pricing is not indicative of quality. The CLA AMG is $50k and a POS. I never said anything about quality of product, solely price and place in market. The Buick LaCrosse and Lincoln MKZ could compete with each other based on similar price, but the 2 brands don't compete with each other. Which Lincoln competes with the Verano or Regal? Which Buick directly competes with the Navigator? Does Buick have a 400 hp Lincoln Continental fighter? Buick is not on par with Lincoln. Buick is not a luxury brand. Lincoln is a luxury brand, just not a very good one. The LaX competes with the MKZ or ES350 for that matter in all things except the Hybrid. For all intent the LaX is a downsized XTS. The Regal is a sporty premium sedan... Just because Lincoln doesn't have one doesn't ill-legitimize the Regal as a premium vehicle.. I will give Lincoln Premium status, but that's about where I stand. LaCrosse is priced lower than the Azera, Avalon, and Cadenza. On size and price, I would say those are the closest competitors really. I could agree with Lincoln being a premium brand, they are just dressed up Fords.

GM's brands competed with each other. Pontiac competed with Chevy, GMC trucks compete with Chevy, Olds and Buick competed with each other. Saturn was all over the map, first as a small car, then as the Euro import fighter after Olds left. Saab was just a money loser. VW brand makes about $700 per car. Audi $5,000, Porsche $19,000, Bentley and Lambo $23,000 or more. The 2 million luxury cars they sell a year are about two thirds of their profits. Plus their brands don't overlap like GM's did. They had all these brands back in 2008 when the auto market did collapse, and the European auto market collapsed too. VW probably has the most well rounded lineup of any car maker. They have diesels and electrics from top to bottom, they are in countries all over the world, they have good small cars like the Golf, and lots of high margin luxury and sports cars.

VW sold 10.1 million cars last year, more than every other car maker except Toyota who had 10.2 million. So VW doesn't have a volume problem either. Why would their volume magically go away? Bentley, Audi, Porsche sales are all rising, that is where the profit is made. Even if VW lost 3 million sales, they are still bigger than Ford. I think they'll be okay.

Volkswagen posted a $12.36 billion profit in 2014. I don't think they are struggling.

Irrelevant.. Pricing is not indicative of quality. The CLA AMG is $50k and a POS. I never said anything about quality of product, solely price and place in market. The Buick LaCrosse and Lincoln MKZ could compete with each other based on similar price, but the 2 brands don't compete with each other. Which Lincoln competes with the Verano or Regal? Which Buick directly competes with the Navigator? Does Buick have a 400 hp Lincoln Continental fighter? Buick is not on par with Lincoln. Buick is not a luxury brand. Lincoln is a luxury brand, just not a very good one.

Buick is not on par with Lincoln. Buick Verano starts around $23k the Lacrosse is like $33k. The top Buick is cheaper than the MKZ.

I agree with all those points, using CTS and STS as the names would have made more sense. Especially since it would leave the ATS name available for a 1-series competitor in the future if they wanted to go that route. Since they are going to a new naming scheme, I guess this problem will be resolved. I'll go one step further on the CTS's price increase for sticker shock and add that it went from a standard V6 to a standard I-4. And for returning Cadillac buyers that had a DTS or STS, they are probably used to a V8. So not only might there be some sticker shock, they may also wonder only a 4-cylinder, when to most 60+ age buyers 4-cylinder means economy car, not luxury car. I remember when the first generation CTS was out there was talk of a coupe or convertible. So that has been on the radar since 2005 or 2006, and they should have had more body styles in the works as they were developing the Alpha platform sedans. As a minor correction, no C-class convertible yet, but will be in 2016. E-class has a convertible though, where the others in that segment do not offer.