smk4565

I like what Hyundai and Genesis are doing, and I like they they are getting into performance too. And I think you can compare EV to ICE. My point is with these performance EV’s is it is straight line only. You said Tesla can out perform other EV’s, but the Plaid’s lap time is slower than a Corvette that has half the horsepower. Put a 500 hp EV on a track against a 500 hp Corvette and see what happens. And this leads to the affordable sports car issue I brought up. A Miata, BRZ, GTI, Ecoboost Mustang are like $30k range, get into the 40s and the Supra and Z are there. I doubt there will ever be a 200-300 hp sub $40k EV sports car that weighs under 3500 lbs and is tossable in corners.

M5 CS is 7:29 on the Ring, so is the Porsche Panamera, both faster than Model S Plaid. I can't find a current E63 sedan time, the E63 wagon holds the wagon record at 7:45 and that was set in 2017. GT63S has the 4-door record still, and that's basically an E63. And these are cars that the Tesla has 400 hp on which further proves my point that it sucks in the corners. The Corvette has 50% the horsepower of a Model S Plaid and is quicker around the Nurburgring by a few seconds. There is no electric car that can handle as well as a good ICE car, it's just pure fact. I hope they fix that in the future. But until they do, you aren't going to see the "fun to drive" $40k (or less) EV. Maybe Hyundai will figure it out.

Well the Taycan had the record. The AMG GT63S is 7:23 though, beats the Plaid by 12 seconds. The Black Series is 6:43, over 52 seconds a lap faster. The Hummer might handle well for a 9,000 lb vehicle, but that's because it weighs double of a normal size SUV, so what do you compare it too. I am saying where is the EV that can handle with a Miata, BRZ, Corvette, Boxster/Cayman, etc. Car and Driver compared the AMG EQS to the Model S Plaid, stated the AMG is better but it isn't enough AMG. These EV's can blitz a quarter mile, but it is one trick pony performance, so I'd like to see the handling, breaking, weight cutting come into play, which over time with battery tech will eventually happen. I hope Hyundai makes the 74, but it's a $75k car or more if they put 577 hp in it, the Ioniq 6 N is probably a $75k car, that's getting to low end Corvette money. That's too much money for those. Right now $40k is the base Ioniq 5 with 168 hp that weighs 4,000 lbs, not exactly a Golf GTI or Civic Type R competitor for fun factor.

You brought up a lot of straight line performance, I already said EV’s kill it in a straight line. But they don’t in the corners. The Taycan ( the fastest one) is the Nurburgring EV record holder at 7:42. That’s 19 seconds slower than the AMG GT63 4-door which is similar size and price. The Taycan is 59 seconds behind an AMG Black Series or the aftermarket Mod 911 which are the all out sports cars. But my other point was on the more affordable side of sports cars. For $30-40k you can get a Miata, BRZ/GR86, GTI, WRX, Mustang, Camaro, etc. All 4-cylinder cars with some fun factor. There is no EV version of that, they can’t make a lower weight, fund handling car.

An M5 or E63 is still lighter than a Model S, and would beat a Model S on a race track. But my point more is with sports cars, like a 911 or Corvette or something. An EV Corvette or 911 with a 90 kWh battery would be like a 4500 lb car, I don't know if that is really keeping with the spirit of the sports car idea. No one is making an EV sports car or convertible right now, because I think they can't get the weight out and a 3800 lb Miata EV with 200 hp at $50k probably isn't going to sell. Stuff like Miata, Toyota 86, or even Supra or Nissan Z that maybe aren't all about straight line power and are about driving dynamics doesn't really exist in the EV world. Cadillac fans for a few years were saying how light weight the ATS and CTS were, the Lyric is 5600-5900 lbs.

The N Vision 74 is really cool, although they'd have to make it an EV, a fuel cell isn't going to sell since there is no hydrogen network. Hopefully they build both of those. Performance cars aren't dead, but all these EV performance cars are just 500-100 hp and fly in a straight line but weigh 5,000+ lbs so it isn't like they are going to handle like a Lotus in the corners.

Going all EV might be a better better strategy, not a for sure thing. But GM isn't really going all EV, they will still be making ICE cars until 2035. All in would be killing the gas Silverado in 2024 and selling only the EV model. But that isn't their plan, this 2.7 turbo 4 or the 6.2 V8 in the Silverado could still be on the market in 12 years. Who is going to want a 420 hp V8 in 2034? Unless part of this plan is to make the ICE cars look like crap so people buy the EV. Personally, I'd like to see all the whole car market go EV, but EV's are still too expensive for that to happen right now, and no one outside Tesla has manufacturing scale to do it.

Toyota isn't using the Prius system if they are using the Tundra's system in the Tacoma. The Tundra's hybrid system I think puts the electric motor attached to the transmission, I know it works differently than the Prius. Then Toyota has the 3rd system where the ICE engine powers the front wheels, and an electric motor powers the rear like in the Sienna and Highlander, but that obviously won't be used for a Tacoma. They need something for rear drive, which leaves the hybrid V6 form the Lexus LS or the hybrid twin turbo V6 from the Tundra, and I'd imagine they'd use the Tundra's. Going all in on EV might be the better strategy too, the faster you can convert the line over to EV, probably the better in the long run.

The new Tacoma is expected to offer a hybrid and a full EV. If they can be the segment sales leader with a truck that is old as dirt, then I think they could be pretty tough with the rumored engines, those being the Lexus turbo 4-cylinder and the Tundra's twin turbo V6 hybrid. I would assume the Ranger gets the Bronco powertrains and a Raptor version will happen, so Toyota will put the Tundra engine in the Tacoma to battle the Raptor.

The Silverado makes 310 hp and 420 lb-ft, the F150 430 hp and 570 lb-ft. + 120 hp, +150 lb-ft, + 5 mpg for the hybrid. Seems like more than a minimal gain, but I get GM doesn't want to spend money on anything ICE related, and just get the switch to EV as fast as possible, which is fine if they do the switch fast. If they plan on another 10-15 years of ICE, then might as well hybrid it.

"options" would be offering a hybrid too, could be a plug-in. The thing EV trucks are bad at are towing, because it zaps the range. So something like a hybrid F150 could tow long distance, and still have their pro-power onboard thing that lets you power a job site or camp site or whatever electric tools or camping stuff you want to plug in.

So just make the high output version. A hybrid would be a better 3rd option since Ford has the Maverick and F150 hybrids and I assume will do a Ranger hybrid.

Looks like good improvements over the prior model. Turbo 4 is a good idea as well. Not sure why they don't just go with 2 tune levels on the engine, two versions of the engine, both making 310 hp seems a bit meaningless.

GM's CEO says they are going to outsell Tesla, and I just looked it up and she said in the USA by 2025. Would be more ambitious to state worldwide, but GM isn't in Europe anymore. https://fortune.com/2022/07/20/general-motors-tesla-electric-vehicle-sales/ GM told Fortune Magazine here they plan to build 1 million EV's in the USA by end of 2025 and 1 million in China. So there is 2 million number they need to be on par with or perhaps beat Tesla. But to sell 2 million cars you need some big volume sellers. Personally I hope they pull it off, we need more EVs on the road and I am sick of Tesla sales going up 40-50% per year without even introducing any new models. Someone has to challenge them.

Because the XT6's sales volume sucks. The Lyriq should aim to double that. Even if they do 50k units here it would still be behind most mid-size luxury SUVs. But if they can do 50k here, and 50k in China, that gets them 100k units a year, that would be pretty good I think.

No luxury brand will sell a car that does volume like the Model Y. That is what should have the traditional OEM's concerned. The Model Y at the pace they are on could be a top 10 selling vehicle in the USA, and the Model 3 could be also. The GLC and GLE can do about 70,000 units each in a year, BMW X3 and X5 can usually do numbers like that, Lexus RX over 100k. I am. not saying the Lyriq needs to do 200,000, but they should be able to do 50,000. And stuff like the Equinox EV needs to be a 250,000 a year vehicle. Right now, Mach-E, Kia EV6, Ionic 5, iD4, etc are all sort of niche cars doing 25,000 sales a year each, that isn't a lot of production in a market of 17 million sales per year under normal conditions. Mary Barra is the one that said GM will sell more EV's than Tesla by mid-decade, so that's 3-4 years away. Tesla will have a 2 million vehicle year capacity within a couple years. So if GM is going to top 2 million EV's a year they need 4 vehicles at 250k units a year, and 10 at 100k a year. That's a lot of volume EV's, 1 or 2 of them have to come from Cadillac.

Doesn't matter what his favorite brand is, because no brand is going to beat it on a track. And it is an accomplishment, it has a Formula 1 engine in it, there are only 4 companies that even make an F1 engine, and only 1 had the guts to put it in a road car.

Cadillac hasn't delivered any Lyriqs yet. They have sold zero YTD per GM's Q2 sales report. You are comparing their future orders to what Mercedes already sold. Also they aren't near the same price or same segment, so it's meaningless anyway. 20,000 units a year for a mid-size luxury SUV would be among the worst sellers in the segment, it would be on pace with the XT6's sales volume this year. Model Y did 161,000 last year and is up this year. 200,000 a year should be no problem for them and they might hit 250,000 given the sales increases Tesla is seeing. And that's just in the USA. Tesla sold over 50,000 Model Y's in China in June 2022, it was the #1 selling SUV in the country, is #2 for the year. It's outselling the Honda CR-V there.

I always wait for an actual production version with price to really evaluate something. Other than maybe looks, you either like it or you don't. For all we know the Celestiq will have 1,000 hp for $100,000 and maybe it's an insane deal. And sort of\, an A220 lease is $439, GLA $469, CLA is $499. XT4 is $409 a month lease, CT4 is $419, CT5 is $479. The Cadillacs are cheaper but either way you don't really need to be "rich" to drive any of those.

It can't pass our emissions here and it probably doesn't make financial sense to build it, but they did it. A Formula 1 engine in a road car is probably the best piece of engineering ever for a road car. If anything it shows how Mercedes doesn't just do what the bean counters say makes sense, I applaud them for building it. And am waiting for someone to make a car faster around a track than it. Your favorite brand won't build a faster car.

You can lease a Cadillac for $409 a month, it's on their website. I don't think you have to be rich to afford that.

ATP has nothing to do with revenue when you have no volume. Cadillac doesn't have enough buyers willing to spend "MORE". People are willing to spend money on Escalades, not the rest of their stuff. If people were willing to spend more for a Cadillac, the CT5 would cost more than an E-class or 5-series and outsell them. Likewise with the CT4 vs the 3-series, or the XT5 vs the Lexus RX, or the XT6 vs the MDX.

20,000 is not enough, need to be able to produce 100,000 a year for the USA, probably same number for China. Lexus sells over 100k RX's just in the USA. I read Ford plans to produce 270,000 Mach-E's next year. But they have sold 17,000 in the first half of this year. Not sure how they get from 34k a year to 270k a year, but scale is what matters. Tesla is the only car maker producing EV's at scale right now, all the other guys keep advertising their EVs, but they don't have them on dealer lots. Tesla sales are up 46% this year while the market overall is down 18%. There is demand out there for cars and EV's especially, but no supply.

If Cadillac we such a cash cow to begin with GM would not have had to file bankruptcy. GM didn't get enough volume or profit margin out of Cadillac back then. They could have done a car like the Sixteen, I never expected a 13.6 liter V16 to hit production, that would be a CAFE and emissions nightmare, but they could have done a full size car with the supercharged Northstar to stay more cost effective and had a big luxury car that probably what they were doing for DT7 at the time. (could have put the supercharged Northstar in the Escalade 15 years ago also) But there are probably a lot of things Cadillac would have done different if they had a redo. Going forward, the Elmiraj is a good looking car, even though coupes/convertibles are practically sales proof, I would still bring back the Eldorado and use those 2 concepts and the Lyriq as a guide. If they can price the Lyriq at $62k, and they should be able to build a coupe for less than an SUV, I don't see why an Eldorado coupe can't also be $62k, maybe $65k if you dress up the interior a bit more or need a little money for suspension/handling. Then the dual motor Eldorado can be $70k, add $5-10k for the convertible, whatever that costs, probably would have to go soft top for weight given that it's an EV. And I'd size it similar to a CT5 or Lyric, somewhere in there, a full size coupe will never sell, keep it mid-size, then you can do a mid-size sedan that shares parts with it, plus you are sharing from the Lyriq too to keep cost in line. We also haven't seen the production version of the Celestiq yet, only a concept car with no stats. So we need to see the the actual proaction car to see if they did get the quality, materials, etc correct and if what they built is worth the price.

Because the point was brought up that Lucid is a threat to Mercedes. If Lucid is threatening to put Mercedes out of business they Honda, GM, Hyundai/Kia who are all smaller companies should be really worried. In reality, I don't see Lucid as a threat to any OEM because there is a limited number of people buying $100k and up cars, and if that is all you do, it is hard to make profit as an independent, which is whey Bentleys have VW parts under them and Rolls-Royce has BMW parts and why Aston Martin buys engines, transmissions, electronics and infotainment off Mercedes because these small companies can't develop that stuff, it costs way too much. Lucid only survives if they start selling $40-50,000 cars at volume.