smk4565

In doing a little reading on D6, it looks like the MKZ and MKT replacements in 2019 will be the first products. That is still a ways off, and these are just going to be more fwd/awd vehicles, sounds like every Lincoln will be made off of one modular platform. Which is good for economies of scale, but maybe not best for building the best possible car. Lincoln is spending $5 billion in 5 years to do this, that is really a drop in the bucket when Audi spends $5 billion in a single year. I want to see the final product and how they price the Continental. I suspect a big let down from the original show car is coming.

You want to redesign a sedan to cut "maybe" 2 inches in overall length off ?? WHO CARES ????? CTS isn't a Buick. I'd rather see the LaCrosse more Malibu sized, which is like 193 inches long now, but I suppose the LaCrosse could function as it is at 197.5 inches long, and you could offer an Omega sedan above that around 203. If the Verano grows in size with the Cruze, I don't really know why they need a Regal then. Does Buick really need 4 sedans? And then the 2nd question is how high in price should Buick go? Do we need a $50k Avenir? That is Cadillac price territory. Does Buick need an Alpha based GNX with the ATS-V twin turbo V6 for $45,000? Sounds cool in theory, but all that would do is steal Camaro SS and ATS-V sales. There has to be a ceiling on Buick, because Cadillac is the luxury brand.

They don't sell Cadillacs in China? If the demand in China (which is seeing a growth slow down) for a sedan larger than LaCrosse is great then roll out an Omega Park Avenue. But the same argument can be said, GM has a luxury car brand that for years specialized in full size sedans. Cadillac should be filling that role in China as well. GM wants to push Buick as a luxury brand, but they already have a luxury brand. I am however a fan of halo cars, I think they make brands, so I am never opposed to a halo vehicle to be a symbol for the brand. In Buick's case though a Riviera Coupe I think would be more special and prestigious than to add a 4th sedan to the line up.

BMW is ridiculous. I think there is room for one Mercedes crossover sports coupe thing, but sadly they are making a 2nd one. They do make an E-class sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon, so why not a GLE regular body and coupe body. I don't think they need a GLC crossover coupe, I think those people would buy a GLC anyway.

The back looks like a Civic. And $40k is still too much for a car that after EV range is no better than a Fusion or Sonata or Camry hybrid, which are also larger cars. Couldn't they just replace that 350 lb engine with 350 lbs of batteries and make it a pure EV? Then make a plug-in Malibu? I get what they are going for, it is just too much money for what is basically a plug-in hybrid Chevy Cruze. The cost is still too high.

They could be different, but shouldn't GM worry about how to sell more $50,000 Cadillacs rather than to introduce a Buick to compete with Cadillac? They could make an Omega Avenir and sell 5,000 a year like the Kia K900 or Equus sells, I just don't think that is even worth the time or effort. Especially when you have a struggling luxury brand that needs product. I'd rather them make an Omega Eldorado oh wait word names are bad, CT6 coupe.

I think an Explorer based Lincoln, which would be the Aviator. MKT will probably die off, you'd have MKC, MKX, Aviator, Navigator, and 2 sedans. As I said before, Ford and GM just want to sell trucks and utilities. Maybe they'll make an MKA crossover based on the Fiesta platform with a 1.0 liter turbo for $24,995.

The 2017 LaCrosse hopefully will go up in price to around $35k. But does Buick really need a sedan starting over $40,000? If they make an Omega Park Avenue, you have to use a 2.0T as the engine, which won't look good when the LaCrosse has a 3.6 V6. And if the hypothetical Park Avenue has a 3.6 V6 standard, then why pay an extra $10-15,000 for a 4-cylinder CT6? I still favor a 3 sedan lineup for Buick. I'd use Regal, LaCrosse and Park Avenue as the 3 names. I'd be game for a Riviera coupe as the 5th car.

Totals thru Nov 2015; 187446 cars, 147282 trucks/SUVs/CUVs. Yes, the Sprinter is included, it's a "mercedes" & reported on same chart, isn't it? 187446 out of 334728 is 56% cars. MB relies heavily on trucks in the U.S., and HEAVILY on fleets in Europe. It's how they pursue ever higher production goals, their #1 purpose. In 2015 YTD, 69.3% of GM sales are truck and crossover, and 30.7% sedan/coupe/convertible. Over at Ford in 2015, 68.8% of sales are trucks and utilities and 31.2% are cars. As I said, the American car companies want to sell trucks and don't care about selling cars. They haven't in years. That is why the CamCords win the family sedan sales crown and the imports win the luxury sales. That is why they make "stop gap" Continentals, because they just need a product to put in the show room, same reason we got the XTS. Notice they don't make a "stop gap" Explorer or Escape. If Ford was really committed to luxury sedans you'd see a better effort on the Continental and MKZ. Complete rubbish. Focus and Cruze are as good or better than any Japanese equivalent. Continental and CT6 are better than any Japanese equivalent. Mustang Camaro are better than any Japanese equivalent.....if they were to build something to compete. Fusion and Fusion Sport (soon to be introduced) are as good or better. Pick any CUV to compare, and Detroit comes out ahead. Do they sell a lot of trucks? Heck yah, and that's because the Japanese make crap in that segment. We don't know that the CT6 or Continental are better than the Japanese equivalent because they aren't out yet. But I do think Lexus has left the LS460 to die on the market, they haven't put a new engine in that car since 2007, it still has that same V8. Why isn't there a turbo V6 hybrid, a V8 and a turbo V8? The Tacoma is still the top selling mid-size truck, so they do have a market there. The weakness of Toyota is the Tundra. Just like GM and Ford ignore sedans some times, the same can be said about Toyota and full size trucks. I think Toyota should dump the Scion brand, give every dollar spent on that to the Tundra team to make it more competitive. Then bring back the Celica as a small front drive sports car for the young people that Toyota desperately needs that aren't buying Scions anyway.

The RWD car above the LaCrosse is the CTS. Buick doesn't need 4 sedans. I would be in favor of downsizing the LaCrosse to make it closer in size to an Azera or Cadenza, maybe 195 inches long. Dropping the Regal (or build Regal on Delta, drop Verano nameplate) and introducing a 200 inch long rear drive Buick sedan for around $40k. Then there would be 3 sedans with LaCrosse as the middle. Which in the Lucerne days, the LaCrosse was the base level Buick, not sure why it is the top level car now.

Agreed on the real names. And they would have to find one for MKC, Mariner maybe? Remember when the MKS came out and they staged a hill climb race pitting the MKS ecoboost against an Infiniti M, a Jaguar XF 4.2 liter, a 5-series and an E350. And the MKS of course was the fastest because it had a 50 hp and torque advantage over those cars, and it was basically all up hill where braking and handling were minimized. And they tried to claim how the MKS was better a better performance car than the Euro imports, and look how sad the MKS is now. I feel like we are going to get another half-baked effort on the Continental that they will try to say rivals a Lexus LS460, and 5 years from now Continental will be a joke like the MKS is today.

Totals thru Nov 2015; 187446 cars, 147282 trucks/SUVs/CUVs. Yes, the Sprinter is included, it's a "mercedes" & reported on same chart, isn't it? 187446 out of 334728 is 56% cars. MB relies heavily on trucks in the U.S., and HEAVILY on fleets in Europe. It's how they pursue ever higher production goals, their #1 purpose. In 2015 YTD, 69.3% of GM sales are truck and crossover, and 30.7% sedan/coupe/convertible. Over at Ford in 2015, 68.8% of sales are trucks and utilities and 31.2% are cars. As I said, the American car companies want to sell trucks and don't care about selling cars. They haven't in years. That is why the CamCords win the family sedan sales crown and the imports win the luxury sales. That is why they make "stop gap" Continentals, because they just need a product to put in the show room, same reason we got the XTS. Notice they don't make a "stop gap" Explorer or Escape. If Ford was really committed to luxury sedans you'd see a better effort on the Continental and MKZ.

Regarding your three paragraphs, wrong, wrong, and time will tell. Mercedes didn't sell 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total units? The YTD sales chart in the sales section says they did. CLA $32,050 GLA $32,500 C300 $38,950 GLC300 $38,950 E350 $53,100 GLE350 $51,100 CLS $66,900 GLE coupe $65,100 They can't price the sedan and crossover much closer together. In the case of the C-segment they are identical!

Huh?? You think the Continental is "top end" as far as America goes? Seriously? No wonder I just can't take you seriously in regards to cars. It is the top Lincoln, thus the top Ford. I doubt it will be as good as a Cadillac, but "Continental" is the top luxury nameplate in Ford MoCo history. How many American cars are going to be priced above the Continental? CT6 and Corvette, and that is probably it. So the Continental is pretty much near the top for American cars. I don't think Lincoln is planning a sedan above Continental.

60.6% of Mercedes sales in 2015 are cars, unless you count Sprinter, I only totaled the 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total passenger vehicle units. But Mercedes A/B segment car and crossover cost the same, C-segment car and crossover are the same price, their D/E-segment car and crossover are the same price, etc. Ford prices an Escape like a Fusion, an Edge like a Taurus, etc. Honda does the same, an HRV is priced like a Civic, CRV like an Accord, Pilot costs more than Accord. So of course they want to push the crossover there is more margin on it. Is there an American car that leads it's segment in sales? Other than Camaro/Mustang since there isn't really an import alternative, unless you count 370Z and Genesis Coupe. I guess a Charger or Impala would outsell the Avalon, which is the only non-luxury import close enough to full size. To me the Continental is just something to check a box. The product planners said Lincoln needs a full size sedan, so they stretched out a Fusion platform and put a turbo on a V6, and brought back the Continental name much like they brought back the Taurus name. This fills a slot in the show room and they probably don't care if it even sells, because they would rather sell a Lincoln Edge for $50k.

And when the Americans put out a top end sedan like the Continental, it is a front driver on a Fusion platform. Not exactly world class engineering going on there. It isn't a serious effort. If Ford isn't going to take the luxury market seriously, why should buyers take Lincoln seriously?

f@#kin a, man. f@#kin a. Seriously though, I don't know why it's so damn hard to get Americans to buy American cars now. It's been around a decade since they've been selling cars of similar quality to the Japanese automakers, but in our infinite wisdom and anti-bias, we will spend insane amounts of money propping up foreign car companies. You wont find that ANYWHERE else in the world, except maybe China but I don't know that for sure. A Toyota built in the US with domestic parts content STILL benefits Japan at least as much as it does our country. Because American car companies still priorities trucks and SUVs, and they don't push sedans as a better driving experience or a more luxurious driving experience. To use Ford as an example, the Escape outsells the Fusion. People would rather had a C-segment crossover than a D-segment sedan for the same price. And Ford can make better margins on a $29k Escape than they can on a $29k Fusion so of course they will push the Esacpe. Have to make the cars better if you want to pull people out of crossovers. If you want to look at Camry vs Fusion type comparisons, then the Americans still need higher quality and reliability. Camry has a loyal following, it still wins the consumer reports rigged tests and gets the accolades. You have to give people a reason to leave a proven commodity like the Camry. Not easy to do.

The price spread doesn't bother me the LaCrosse starting at $31 with the Regal starting at $28k and the Impala at $28k does. An Impala LT is like a LaCrosse base model in price. I am saying start the LaCrosse at the same price point of an Impala LTZ to spread them out more. Price the LaCrosse $35-49k. Impala and Regal would be $28-37k. XTS dies after a couple more years and that takes away LaCrosse competition at the top end.

But the new Lacrosse has a standard V6. Pay $20,000 more for a Cadillac CT6 and you get a 4-cylinder. This is why Cadillac sedans don't sell. BMW is making a 4-cylinder 7-series for China and the 2 liter displacement. I think they are nuts, that car should have a 3 liter six at the bottom. But I just fixed Buick's lineup in 5 minutes in my previous post.

So why offer a rental grade trim to cheapen the name plate if the take rate on the top trim is so high? And what is the take rate on a Lexus ES or MKZ mid-level trim? LaCrosse should be $35k base, move it up market already. Put it where the Aurora and Park Avenue where, those started in the mid 30s fifteen years ago. At least then there would be a window at $28-35k for the Regal. Although I still like my plan to name the midsize Buick LaCrosse and the full size one Avenir or Invicta. Rename the Verano to Regal. Dump the Verano name plate. Buck has so many good name plates in their history and they come up with crap like Verano. If anything the Convertible should be called Verano for Summer.

How long will it take? Cadillac has been in business since 1902. Even if you want to call a reset after bankruptcy in 2009, they have had 6-7 years now. You can develop products in that time frame. Cadillac also just released their full size sedan and priced it like an E-class. Where is this up market move? If Buick is waiting for the Cadillac up market move it isn't going to happen. Buick also has a small, medium and large sedan, at a $5,000 premium over the Chevy of similar size, so they pretty much have sedans covered. With Envision they will have compact, small, and large crossover, which pretty much covers that since I'd assume the Terrain will be the mid-size crossover at the dealership. Cascada gives Buick a unique, personal convertible type car, since there are very few convertibles on market, that is a good product to have. It brings a different buyer into the show room. I don't think Chevy can sustain Spark, Sonic, Cruze, Malibu, Impala car line up. 5 sedan/hatches is a lot, plus Camaro and Corvette and Volt. I would dump the cheapest one (Spark), and slide the others down a bit. People don't see the Regal as a luxury or sports car, it was a mid-size family car for a long time. If anything the 2016 LaCrosse should be called Avenir and priced at $35k base, then rename the Regal to Lacrosse and price it at $29k. You raise the price $2,000 on the same car, but the perception is they are getting a LaCrosse which is better than a Regal.

The LaCrosse starts in the low 30s, the Cadillac ATS around $33-34k. So a Buick Regal is supposed to cost as much as a Cadillac ATS? If they want to charge $34k for a Regal, a LaCrosse or ATS should be $40k base, and at that price those cars wouldn't sell. The ATS hardly sells now, the 3-series, IS, A4, C-class, all outsell it. I think a Regal with a 250 hp turbo 4, all wheel drive, 8-speed, leather, power accessories, etc should be like $29k. You can get that stuff in a Fusion, Subaru, or a more powerful Accord or Camry V6 (minus awd) for that money. This is why the Regal doesn't sell well. There are 10 cars with just as good a powertrain and performance for under $30k. I think the LaCrosse should go up in price to $34,995 base model. I would actually make the Sonic smaller and kill the Spark off. Then I'd downsize and down price the Cruze and Malibu so that the Regal and Impala have a place in the market. They keep wanting to make the Cruze and Malibu bigger and more expensive, and all that does is squeeze the Regal and Impala out of the market. There are already rumors that this is the last generation of Impala. So they put the Sonic in the Cavalier/Cobalt slot, introduce Cruze, move the Malibu up-market and kill Impala. Then you are still left with a 4 car line up, but you killed the best name plate off. Makes no sense.

They just lowered the price of the Regal to $27 or $28k a year ago because it didn't sell. So making a more expensive Regal is the answer? Plus the current Lacrosse starts at $31k even if they make it $35k base, $30k is the Regal's sweet spot. I think the Regal is just a dead product though, making it a wagon doesn't make it cooler or more desirable. It probably does the opposite.

But a Fiat 500x probably seems safer than a Fiat 500 or a Mazda 3 or Chevy Sonic. The 500x could be a death trap but I bet 90% of the buying public thinks it is safer than a Focus simply because it is is a crossover.

Although with a lot of these crossovers, I think perceived safety, size and engine power helps gets sales. If you buy an SRX or RX350 or Lincoln MKX you get a 300ish horsepower V6. Go buy $45k luxury sedan and you'll probably get a turbo 4 engine. Even the Lexus GS has a turbo 4 now. So buyers will think more size + more power = better.