smk4565

I think there is room in the market for a "personal luxury coupe" as the old saying goes. There are mature buyers out there that don't want a Camaro or Mustang, or don't want the noisy exhaust note and stiff suspension of an Infiniti G37/Q60. There isn't a mid-size coupe on the market right now that is geared toward refinement and luxury, unless you pay $60k for an E-class coupe. I think a $35,000 Riviera hits a sweet spot for those that want something nicer than the CamCord segment, but don't want a crossover or a big car like an Avalon, Cadenza or Impala.

I have never been a BMW fan, their styling never really did anything for me, but I do respect the E39, the V10 M5, the E46 M3, the F30 3-series and inline sixes. I can respect their products, but I would never buy one, they aren't my cup of tea. That being said, I have to defend them here. In 2015, 58% of Porsche sales were SUVs. This was once a sports car brand that is on its way to having 2/3rds of it sales trucks. BMW still has 70% of its sales volume from cars. That is huge percentage, as all the non-germane luxury brands are under 50%. As far as the X5 goes, it is a rear drive platform, you can get a 450 hp V8 or 580 hp V8, or whatever the M has. The Acura, Lincoln, Lexus crossovers and the SRX are front drive products, basically family sedans on stilts with a V6 out of a Cam-Cord. They are garden variety stuff. I am not sure what is "mojo induced" about any Lexus or Acura SUV, but BMW is making an X7 SUV with optional 600 hp V12 power. Will a 600 hp V12 be enough mojo for the suv segment? The only reason BMW's CUV percentage isn't higher is because it is up against the five or six variations of EACH car model (3,4,5,6,7 series have more variations than you can shake a stick at) so those percentages you are touting are way misleading. Finally, the X5 was BMWs best seller last month and was second in yearly sales to only the multi-variant 3 series. What do you think is going to happen to that CUV percentage when the X7 comes out? So before the argument was made that BMW sells too many SUVs and that was bad. Bad for image to sell SUVs as a luxury brand. Then as it turns out they sell 70% cars and only 30% SUVs (the most car heavy luxury brand there is). Yet that is still bad because the X5, a high margin vehicle outsells a 3-series which is a bottom level vehicle. However at Mercedes the C-class, a sedan outsells the GLE, but that is also bad because the C-class costs less than the GLE. Then it seems that many more people want an Escalade over a BMW, yet BMW doesn't offer a full size SUV. So until the X7 is on sale we don't really know. And the X5 outsells the Escalade, because as was established the X5 is the #1 selling BMW for 1 month. Maybe the X7 will sell well, maybe it is too late to the game. Personally I think the X7 will gain some traction in the market place, and that segment isn't really growing so it will more than likely steal from established players.

What about a Ford Taurus X (I think Freestyle before that). I haven't looked what they cost, but they have to be cheap. Chevy Uplander/Saturn Relay are cheap with cargo space. Chrysler Pacificas are cheap.

An ESCALADE is UNTOUCHABLE in the realm of cachet, and NO AMOUNT OF BMW X6M HORSEPOWER comes close to that Cadillac in cachet... Like I said... Porsche, M-B, Cadillac, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, Jaguar and others HAVE A SAY HOW SUVs WILL be MARKETED... And the X6M will BE LOST in that whirlwind of SUV madness... BMW was the one to DICTATE what is a LUXURY SPORT SEDAN...but with SUVs...BMW is NO WHERE NEAR the BENCH MARK!!! You realize the X6M is like the size of a Cadillac XT5 or Lexus RX right? It is not a full size vehicle, but as I just posted there is a full size X7 SUV coming. And who ever said BMW was a benchmark of SUVs? SUVs are 30% of BMW sales. What is sort of scary is if their car sales stay the same, but SUV sales rise, they could be at 400,000 units a year in the near future. I don't know that the Escalade is so "untouchable". It has cache, but it built a lot of that in the early to mid 2000s when there were few competitors. Aside from the GL, and there could be a Maybach GL, you now have Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Lamborghini getting into SUVs. Those are heavyweight names. Land Rover is coming back pretty strong. And the Escalade is sill built on a Chevy truck frame. I think in the 2020s the Escalade will have to adapt and evolve as more and more better handling, more luxurious and more fuel efficient large SUVs hit the market.

I have never been a BMW fan, their styling never really did anything for me, but I do respect the E39, the V10 M5, the E46 M3, the F30 3-series and inline sixes. I can respect their products, but I would never buy one, they aren't my cup of tea. That being said, I have to defend them here. In 2015, 58% of Porsche sales were SUVs. This was once a sports car brand that is on its way to having 2/3rds of it sales trucks. BMW still has 70% of its sales volume from cars. That is huge percentage, as all the non-germane luxury brands are under 50%. As far as the X5 goes, it is a rear drive platform, you can get a 450 hp V8 or 580 hp V8, or whatever the M has. The Acura, Lincoln, Lexus crossovers and the SRX are front drive products, basically family sedans on stilts with a V6 out of a Cam-Cord. They are garden variety stuff. I am not sure what is "mojo induced" about any Lexus or Acura SUV, but BMW is making an X7 SUV with optional 600 hp V12 power. Will a 600 hp V12 be enough mojo for the suv segment?

First off no Lexus or Cadillac SUV is on par with an X6M. That is a near 600 hp crossover. But let's look at some facts of percentage of car vs SUV sales among luxury brands. I also took the X1 out of cars total and put it into SUV, because BMW counts it as a car, but I don't think it is, which actually lowers BMW's car %. Acura 38.3% car 61.7% suv Audi 58.3% car 41.7% suv BMW 70.0% car 30.0% suv Cadillac 40.2% car 58.8% suv Infiniti 48.6% car 51.4% suv Lexus 49.7% car 50.3% suv Lincoln 37.3% car 62.7% suv Mercedes 59.8% car 40.2% suv So BMW is actually the most car heavy luxury brand, they have a long way to go to becoming an SUV brand. Unlike Lincoln, Acura and Cadillac that are already SUV brands.

Again, that near bottom feeder C class was MBs best seller (of which there are FIVE variations of per MBs website) while you try to say that MB makes more sells off of their mid range luxury cars. Hmmmmm...lie much? The Encore is Buick's #1 seller and their second cheapest product. The SRX is Cadillac's #1 seller and their 2nd cheapest product. The Escape is the #1 selling ford after F-series, and the Escape is near the bottom. Lots of brands have their best sellers as the lower end of their line up. And I said 2 of the top 3 selling lines are middle level at Mercedes. C-class, E-class, GLE-class are their top 3 selling lines. There have been years when the E-class was their #1 seller. Perhaps the new one will catch fire and regain the title. CLA + CLA 55,236 C-class + GLK/GLC = 113,982 E-class + ML/GLE = 102,949 (add CLS which has defect replaced the E550 sedan and it is 109,101 units) S-class + GL = 49,641 The top and bottom are pretty close, if you add the SL and G-wagen to the top group they would outsell the A range. ( and those cars don't share platforms, I just lumped together by price point)

No no, that's the Continental Black Series Platinum Bill Blass Edition. They definitely need a 2 tone Bill Blass Continental.

AutoNews This is interesting.. and if it is Alpha based. suggests that what I've been saying about the CTS moving to Omega as a "SWB CT6" called CT5 is true.. and that the bulk of Alpha sales will be coming from non-Cadillac vehicles. Hell.. Camaro plant just added another shift at the plant.. a Rivera on Alpha would be sexy hot I would like to see a Riviera coupe, priced around $35k, 3.6 V6 standard, and just make it an elegant looking, smooth performing car. The Infiniti G37 or Q60 whatever is a racy, loud kind of car. Mustang and Camaro are sports cars, likewise with the Genesis coupe. It would be nice for there to be a mature person's mid-size coupe for the empty nesters that want more style than an Azera, Impala, Cadenza or Camry, offer but can't afford $60k for an E400 coupe and don't want a noisy Infiniti with the world's loudest V6 exhaust note.

The C-class had only a sedan in 2015 and it was the only car in the segment to post an increase. The coupe isn't on sale yet here. So it is possible to succeed with one body style, just not the ideal scenario. But I have said for years Cadillac needs more product. This isn't a new revelation that luxury buyers want choices in body styles, and buyers wanting crossovers isn't new. If you don't build the products that people want, you can only blame yourself. Speaking of luxury, the Escalade doesn't offer a panoramic sunroof. Even a Ford Edge has that. Escalade doesn't have semi-autonomous drive either. I know it is a cash cow product, and the buyers of an Escalade probably don't care, but it is not like it is perfect vehicle and couldn't see its market share dwindle with the BMW X7, or the Range Rover or even the Bentley SUV for the super rich.

The big similarity that the top 3 sales brands had was stability with names. The 3-5-7 series and C-E-S class have been around 40 years, and will continue to be. The Lexus LS was their first car, ES and GS shortly there after and they never changed names. Then look at Acura, Lincoln, Cadillac, Infiniti. Legend and Integra die, get replaced with RSX and TL, then those die, ILX and TLX come in. Infiniti had Q45 flagship, now a Q50 entry-level car, they had a J30, then an M56, then a Q70. Lincoln went from Continental to LS to Zephyr to MKZ and MKS and back to Continental again. Cadillac Deville/Seville, CTS/DTS/STS/XTS then CT6, CT5, CT3, etc. These 4 brands keep rehashing their names every 10 years, while the top 3 have stability.

Hyundai isn't going to rise up and take out Mercedes. The C-class hatchback they killed 12 years ago. The R-class was their other flop product. They tried it, it didn't work they moved on. You have to take some chances when you are the leader. They took a chance on the CLS, and now there are 20 other brands that want a car that looks like a 4-door coupe, notice even the Malibu, Fusion and 200 are starting to look like 4-door coupes. Let's look at BMW, when you combine 3/4-series they sold 140,609 vs 142,232 in 2014. Not quite gloom and doom. The 5-series was down 16% but was still the #2 seller in its segment and it is nearing the end of it's life cycle. The 7-series was down 4.6% for the year and for a few months they were hardly selling any because of the model change over. BMW crossovers were up 15.8% though, because the market is moving toward crossovers. The X5 was up 17% and outsold the 5-series. So BMW traded 6,000 5-series sales, for 7,000 X5 sales that have a higher profit margin. I think they are happy with that. The 3/4-series didn't lose any market share either, their sales dropped 1.1%, the ATS and Lexus IS dropped 10%, the A4 dropped 15% and the C-class rose 15%. The overall sedan/coupe market is shrinking as CUVs rise. Only 30% of GM sales are cars, they are the most truck heavy car maker there is. Buick's #1 seller in 2015 was the Encore, a near the bottom vehicle, the Verano, Regal and LaCrosse were down 27%, 13.5%, and 18.3% respectively. Cadillac CTS was down 37.4% in 2015. Sedan sales are hurting everywhere.

Yup. That business model passes muster in Europe, not in North America! There are countless of examples of this that has failed in North America. Hyundai and their Genesis model. VW with their Phaeton. Cadillac with their Cimarron. Hell, even M-B with their C Class hatchback. If M-B continues this path, it wont be long when this will fall flat on their face. Sure, for now, they have finally succeeded with the entry level oxymoron marketing campaign and sheeple and badge snobs have accepted this, however, when the next generation of car buyers come along, the ones to control the wants and needs of the automotive landscape in the future when it becomes their turn to dictate what is what, these guys will have witnessed the incredible cheapening of the brand, the incredible exposure that this entry level luxury perception is producing, along with those commercial vans and school buses, and those buyers will NOT see Mercedes Benz as something special and expensive....just cheap, plebeian, and utilitarian...all characteristics that are OPPOSITE of luxury... Its happening now as we speak....slowly eroding... Proof...the article says that the 3,5,7 Series sedans are in a sales decline, the SUVs are the ones that carry the sales... Quite telling... You realize 2 of the top 3 selling Mercedes model lines are GLE and E-class, which start over $50k right? The GLS and S-class together outsell the CLA and GLA most months. Mercedes volume is not from the bottom, it is from the middle of their line. Mercedes is not going to fall on their face. Daimler is on top of things right now, Frieghtliner has 40% market share and a 6 month waiting list for trucks. Detroit Diesel is at max capacity and expanding to meet demand. The commercial wing and the passenger car wing are both firing on all cylinders.

If we counted Sprinter, then Mercedes won the sales crown. Daimler has the highest ATP of all companies, even with Smart and Sprinter pulling down Mercedes. Also not all Mercedes dealerships are authorized to sell Sprinter. Chevy sells work trucks on the same lot as an $80,000 Corvette and no one cars. GMC sells $24,000 Canyons next to $80,000 Yukon Denalis and no one cares. It is a non-issue, Sprinter trucks don't harm Mercedes sales or image in anyway. There are still Chevy-Cadillac dealerships out there, and there are work trucks feet away from a CTS-V and it doesn't matter. I hope everyone realizes the CLA has an average transaction price of $37,800 and by exterior dimensions it is the size of a Civic and by interior the EPA has it has a sub-compact. I missed the part where Chevy had a $38,000 sub-compact offering. And the Cadillac ATS has a base price $1,235 over the CLA (and ATS has a $750 cash back offer now), so I guess Cadillac is competing with Chevy then also. Perhaps Mercedes created their cheaper line to compete against Cadillac, Audi, BMW, Lexus, and Acura. (and CAFE purposes)

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo. While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles: Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln) Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190 LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850 Encore $24,065 Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260 Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210 The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac. As I said.. if I omitted Buick I would have to omit those other brands. If U consider a $6K price difference, still residing in the $20-30K range for both is the epitome of what determines superiority then U are much further gone than I feared. If the ILX is priced above the Verano and people pay it then those people are fools, cause there ain't jack about the ILX that justifies it be priced higher than the Verano.. except the idiot feature. Over 60% of buick sold are sold with at least the leather group, often that is the second most expensive option group on a buick below premium group. In Verano, that puts the price at.... $27k.. The transaction prices on Enclave are well over $50k.... so who cares what the enclave base price is if no one is buying them that way? Acura doesn't sell cars with options? An ILX with Technology Plus package is $32,900. It is still $6k above a Verano. I think you are dope if you spend $32,900 on a super lux Civic, but someone is buying it. The MDX with Super-Dooper AWD, and Advance package (whatever that is) is $55,230. I'd venture to guess most Acuras, or most any car is not sold on base model. Go find a base model Mercedes or BMW on a dealer lot, they don't exist.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo. While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles: Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln) Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190 LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850 Encore $24,065 Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260 Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210 The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac. Your sizing match ups are mostly wrong unless you're comparing some irrelevant spec like glove box room or overall length. Measure the interiors. Those are as close as it gets with their model lines. The Verano is actually longer than an S60 they are .3 inches in height apart, every interior dimension is within 1 inch of each other. The ILX is marginally smaller and lighter than the Verano and S60. The Regal and TLX are 0.1 inches difference in length and 0.1 inches difference in width. The Volvo S80 is 0.8 inches longer than a TLX and 0.3 inches wider. Those 3 cars are carbon copies of each other in size. Front leg room, Regal 42.1 inches, TLX 42.6 inches, S80 41.9 inches. 0.7 inch difference between biggest and smallest. Rear leg room: Regal 37.3 inches, TLX 34.5 inches, S80 35 inches The sedans line up. None of the others have an Encore sized car so I left it blank, Envision doesn't have a price but would be XC60 and MKC and RDX size class. And I picked the 3 row SUVs from each brand. The Enclave is the bigger than the MDX and XC90, but each are the top SUV from that brand. I left Navigator out obviously.

Well rumor is Ford is planning a Taurus SHO Titanium to challenge the S-class. It will have the 400 hp ecoboost V6, body side moldings, black ash wood grain trim on the dash and cost $93,925 with destination charge.

Ford Titanium, Platinum, Gold, Silver, Magnesium or any other precious metals they want to call a trim level are also not luxury cars. It still says Ford on the badge.

If I had of ommited Buick, I would have had to omit Acura, Lincoln, and Volvo. While those 3 are sort of the bottom feeders of the luxury range, they are well above Buick. If you compare base price of similar sized vehicles: Verano $21,065 ILX $27,900 S60 $34,150 (no small Lincoln) Regal $27,065 TLX $31,695 S80 $43,450 MKZ $35,190 LaCrosse $31,065 RLX $54,450 (no large Volvo) MKS $38,850 Encore $24,065 Envision $ ??? RDX $35,370 XC60 $36,600 MKC $33,260/MKX $38,260 Enclave $39,065 MDX $43,015 XC90 $49,800 MKT $43,210 The Enclave is the only place Buick is close, and the MKS is dead, I am guessing the Continental will be over $40k. If Buick was a luxury brand they would be competing with Cadillac.

IF (and a big IF) Corvette was it's own brand then it couldn't be at a Chevy dealership, it would still be a Chevy then. They'd have to have Corvette stand alone dealerships like Porsche has, or Corvette/Cadillac dealerships. Chevy dealers would riot if they lost the Corvette, and GM doesn't seem to want to make V-series Cadillac crossovers, yet people want them to launch a Corvette brand with 500 hp crossovers? GM had 9 brands before and they went bankrupt. More brands isn't GM's answer to success. They need to put those high power crossovers into Cadillac, fill out that line up, make a Cadillac sports car, a Buick Riviera, etc. Work on the brands they have. Heck, GM can't get the Malibu right, they can't launch a new brand.

Well you said Mercedes doesn't make an electric car. Yet they do, and that is all I was saying. I never said it was a good electric car or it had a long range. But the B250e range is double the Volt and in the Volt thread the Chevy fans were saying how the Volt's range meets 90% of drivers needs and Volt owners buy gas 3 times year, etc. So 85 miles must be enough range for most electric car buyers. I wouldn't buy any of these electric cars because you pay a $10-20,000 premium over a similarly performing gas car. The range isn't the problem, the price is. An E250 diesel has an 886 mile range, does that make it the best luxury sedan on the market? As I said, no one is car shopping for range.

Mercedes is working on an electric vehicle architecture that will underpin 4 vehicles, 2 sedans and 2 crossovers. The smaller ones would be C to E class size, and there 2 would be full size. Supposedly a 300 kWh batter pack, 400 hp for rear drive models and 600 hp for all wheel drive models. These are coming in the 2018-19 time frame. So they'll have 5 full EV's and 10 or so plug-ins. But if this stuff has a huge price premium people won't buy it. The AMG line will probably outsell the electric line, however if the electric line buys them enough CARB and CAFE points to build V12s then bring on the green mobiles.

Maybe GM should expand Cadillac's line up. Cadillac being the top GM brand should in theory have the highest profit margins. Putting your ducks in the Buick-GM basket and ignoring Cadillac is like VW group seeing $20,000 profit per car on Porsche and Bentley and $5,000 on Audi and saying, quick build more Audis, add an A10 sedan and forget about Bentley and Porsche. I have no doubt that the Denali trim level is a good profit margin since it is fancy Chevy, just like Lincoln or Acura are a high trim level of Ford/Honda mechanicals. However, how much profit are these GMC's really making? General Motors reported a $1.4 billion dollar profit in the 3rd quarter of 2015, while Toyota posted a $5.1 billion profit during the same 3 month period. And Toyota doesn't have nearly the pick up truck sales that GM does they are doing that mostly on Corollas, Prius, and Camrys. If Buick is all profit, GMC is all profit, Cadillac is making profit, how is Toyota 300% more profitable than GM? Chevy can't be losing a billion dollars per quarter.

BMW beats Mercedes because the 3/4 series sells in such huge volumes. The C-class is gaining, maybe with a plug-in, convertible and coupe being added to the C-class range this year they can close the gap more. In most segments, especially the higher priced ones Mercedes beats BMW. BMW is a strong brand, they have good image, loyal fan base, a super smooth inline six, some pretty good tech. I think the GLC is what Mercedes needs to be successful to top BMW. Jaguar sales are frighteningly small. You'd think they would be doing better by now, and you sort of wonder how they stay alive. They could easily double or triple their sales next year with the F-Pace and XE though. Selling 15,000 XE's in a year shouldn't be too big of an ask. I am surprised Lincoln and Acura were up, who buys those? Why do they buy them? So many better choices out there. And lastly, Buick is not a luxury brand. The lowly CLA is more expensive than 80% of their line up.

I like the looks inside and out. But it is still FWD in a RWD luxury world. 5,000 sales in a year? that is 1 month of the E-class. I don't seem them stealing much from the Germans. I think the Volvo product is better than what Acura or Lincoln are putting out though, they should try to steal off them.