smk4565

Exactly. Mercedes brand average income is $174k. That includes the C-class and GLK buyers. Makes sense that that the higher end models are in the $300s then. My original point was pick up buyers will spend more of their income than a luxury car buyer. Audi buyers have an average income of $180k but the cars are like $50k. The Silverado buyer income is about $65,000 and $70,000 for an F150. The average price of those trucks is around $45,000. Pick up buyers are more likely to spend a bigger chunk of their income on a truck.

You have absolutely no proof of those buyer demographics at all. Just pure speculation on your part and especially given that I see quite a few folks NOT making $180K a year driving the E Class. As a matter of fact, the average income for an E Class buyer is $90K a year which is inserting for a car that can sell for more than that. Oh the double standards that are being pedaled here. Where did you find data that the average income of an E-class buyer is $90k a year? I also don't know anything about the next-gen Frontier or 2015 Navara platform. Maybe the chassis isn't so bad, maybe it is. I don't think Daimler would build a vehicle on a crap platform, and when you put Mercedes suspension parts, Mercedes 9-speed automatic transmission, Mercedes diesel engines on to it, maybe it will be good. It isn't like there is even a concept vehicle to look at at this point. And you have missed the point 100% while showing your double standard. If this were about Cadillac, you would be on here saying that the Cadillac is nothing more than a $90K Chevy. Also, I found the source for that income breakdown but I already know your figure is way off because the $150K average is for S Class buyers. Look it up sometime because I'm not going to do the research for you. Remember, we are talking about a buyers individual income, not household income. Autonews.com in 2013 reported the s-class has an average buyer age of 61 and income of $371,000. USA Today in 2014 reported the S-class had an avg buyer age of 62 with an income of $324,000. Bit that an AMG s-class buyer was mid 40s with $500-600,000 median income. You were wrong about the E-class buyer income and wrong about the S-class buyer income. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/healey/2014/05/17/test-drive-mercedes-benz-s-class-lives-up-to-high-price/9146907/

You have absolutely no proof of those buyer demographics at all. Just pure speculation on your part and especially given that I see quite a few folks NOT making $180K a year driving the E Class. As a matter of fact, the average income for an E Class buyer is $90K a year which is inserting for a car that can sell for more than that. Oh the double standards that are being pedaled here. Where did you find data that the average income of an E-class buyer is $90k a year? I also don't know anything about the next-gen Frontier or 2015 Navara platform. Maybe the chassis isn't so bad, maybe it is. I don't think Daimler would build a vehicle on a crap platform, and when you put Mercedes suspension parts, Mercedes 9-speed automatic transmission, Mercedes diesel engines on to it, maybe it will be good. It isn't like there is even a concept vehicle to look at at this point.

I will say this, there are people that spend $50-60k on Silverado High Country or F150 King Ranch trucks. Pick up truck buyers aren't shy about spending a lot on their truck. Where as a luxury car buyer might make $180k, but only buy a $60k E-class, I think there are pickup buyers making $50k a year buying a $50k pickup. Truck people will put a lot of their income into their truck. So with that being said, maybe it isn't so crazy that Mercedes made a full size luxury truck, but I don't think they'll ever go down that road. I think this mid-size truck is aimed at commercial use and work use, and you'll probably see an interior more like what is on the Metris/Vito. If they sell it in the USA, I bet the 2.0 turbo 4 gets added to the mix.

Considering they would compete with Tacoma and Colorado, I don't see why they would need a V8. And 406 lb-ft of torque is a lot more than either of those two offer. I am not sure why they are even bothering with a pickup, except for that it is a popular and profitable body style and they probably see the ability to make money. I think they should stick to cars and vans though,

Massage seats like an E-class, S-class, CLS, SL, or GLS have? I would hope Cadillac has them, especially the Escalade when the GL550 has them standard.

As far as China goes the Audi A6 is the luxury car champion there. I think A6 sales in China are higher than Malibu sales in the US. Continental and CT6 are a lot bigger than an A6, plus that market is slowing. Continental going to $70k for a black label would be ridiculous. I still think Continental should be $44k base, $50k with the turbo and loaded black label for $59k. I would be surprised if the E-class does not go down in price since they now have a standard 4. So if the E300 is $50k and E450/E43 is $62k, you have stiff competition at that price point. This is why the Acuar RLX is a sales dog, that car should be $40k not $50k.

The only way the Continental will outsell the CT6 is if the Continental is $39,995 starting price. If they price the Continental even with the CT6, or even close, the CT6 will outsell it.

I will argue with you on the Promasters being the worst vans out there. I think they are some of the best don't cost an arm and leg like the Sprinter. Car and Driver did a comparison and the Promaster had some of the lowest scores they ever had. The Transit and Sprinter were way ahead, and the ProMaster wasn't all that cheap, it was $37,590, while the Sprinter was $41,000. The Promaster City is no Ford Transit Connect either.

It looks old because it is. I think this car came out in Europe 3-4 years ago, and most of that design is 2010-2011 era Regal/Insignia inspired. I think price is the biggest problem here. It is small, and doesn't have much performance, and the interior isn't any better than a Mustang. Why would people pay $34k base for this? The Sebring at least was dirt cheap by convertible standards, and probably 50% were sold to rental car companies. If the Cascada was $27,995 maybe they'd find some budget convertible buyers and get some volume, but I don't see them selling many at $35k, and they'll price Avis out with that price point.

Sedan sales dropped 2% in 2015, while trucks/crossovers went up 12%. The market is moving toward 60/40 split of trucks/cars. Luckily for others FCA seems to be bailing on sedans, that leaves those sales for the other guys that stay committed to it.

I think they should give it a word name and sell it under Mercedes-Benz Vans with Sprinter and Metris. Quite a lot of torque from the diesels, could do well for the commercial buyer. If they sell it in the USA, I hope it is at the Sprinter dealers, and not with the passenger car line.

Why does the E Class use a similar shifter while the GLA uses a Chrsyler like dial? Shouldn't they use the same shifter?Seriously. Totally different powertrains. I believe the FWD 8-speed is an outsourced trans. That XT5 shifter is shared with the new Lacrosse using the same trans. The GLA has a column mounted shifter. But thanks CP, that explanation makes sense if the Cadillac crossovers and Buicks that are front drive use one type and the rear drive Cadillac sedans use another. Although all these things are shift by wire now anyways.

I think the Dodge or Chrysler brand should die, I am not sure what the point of Fiat is either. If they insist on keeping Alfa Romeo around, then no reason to make them a BMW competitor, let Alfa take over for Fiat and sell $15-$30,000 cars. Then Remember the Chrysler TC by Maserati? an overpriced Lebaron. Prepare for Pacifica by Maserati, I'd start selling Maseratis at $35k. At least the Maserati brand name has some weight to it, if you slap it on an otherwise mediocre $35,000 car, maybe it will sell. Really Jeep is the only valuable global brand they have, Ram works in the USA since we like pick up trucks, but the Promasters are the worst vans out there.

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300? Shouldn't they use the same shifter? And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

I think the 2000 STS interior is better than the XT5. The XT5 looks boring, and that wide swath of beige on the dash and black center console looks terrible. They couldn't pit some wood or carbon fiber in there?

Sergio is probably the worst automotive CEO there is. Do they plan to have Chrysler sell only the Pacifica and 300? And for Dodge to sell a retro looking sedan on a 2005 retro platform? Consumers aren't flocking to full size sedans either, that market is striking faster than the segments the Dart and 200 reside in. Why even have Dodge or Chrysler anymore, just build Ram and Jeep.

Agreed on the black trim on the wheel and around the nav screen. It doesn't make sense.

What the CT6 has going for it is full size luxury at slightly above mid size prices. The only cars sitting there are Genesis and K900 which aren't really any threat to anyone, at least not yet. Cadillac is in a good position without having much direct competition so it just comes down to how many buyers want this sort of car. As far as V8s go, GM is building about 600,000 V8s a year for Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe and Yukon. There is the CAFE hit, so if it is doom and gloom for the V8, what replaces those engines? Does the Silverado go with the 3.0 TT v6 to replace the 5.3 and 6.2 V8s? They could and should put the 4.2 liter V8 in the CTS V-sport and ATS-V. The 15,000 4.2 V8s Cadillac would sell a year are nothing on the total CAFE number.

The XTS is on the way out and it will no more steal sales from the CTS than the S Class does from the E Class. CT6 and CTS are $10,000 apart on base price and like $6,000 apart V6 to V6 with all wheel drive. E-class to S-class is a $45,000 jump. Larger gap there. And AGAIN, a V8 is coming. Just drop it already with the "it needs a V8" non sense when it is getting one. And please stop comparing pony car buyers to luxury car buyers. That is just asinine. I am not comparing pony car buyer to luxury car buyer, but only saying both tend to be car enthusiasts. Luxury buyers like V8s, Infiniti, Genesis, K900, Lexus GS, LS, BMW 5-series and up, Jaguars, Mercedes, Audi, etc. They all have V8s, have had them for years. Cadillac made a mistake when they cancelled the Northstar replacement 5-10 years ago. Better late than never, but if Cadillac is serious, and I think they are actually, you need to bring the big guns. Yes it is. Sorry to break it to you. Just because snobby rich folks want it and buy it doesn't make it any less that fact. Rolex is the number one luxury watch seller in the world but they are also way overpriced. I only sold them for a decade or so. I'm not going to even bother with the rest of your post. That dead horse needs a break and you won't learn your lesson anyway. A $90k Tahoe isn't over priced? Cadillac prices the Escalade that way because they can and people buy it. If you have a brand image or high demand product you cash in on it.

I brought up the A8 because Hyper said the CT6 turbo V6 would outrun the German V8s. It won't. A 750i is 4.3 seconds 0-60 the A8 is 3.9 seconds. When you get into the upper echelon of cars, buyers want the ultimate in everything. CT6 is not in that upper echelon so they don't need to offer it all, and I know the V8 is coming, I hope it comes soon. When they get to CT8 though, they better have all it all.

So since you admit that it does not compete with the S Class, then why does it need a V8 now (I say "now" because a V8 is on the way, as you have been told many times here)? The XTS is on the way out and it will no more steal sales from the CTS than the S Class does from the E Class. CT6 needs a V8 because a lot of big luxury sedan buyers like a V8. Chrysler 300C buyers like V8s, Genesis G90, K900 have V8s, the 6-series, CLS and A7 offer V8s. I'd imagine a lot of buyers spending $70k might want the V8 option. Even the Camaro and Mustang have V8s, because sports car enthusiasts like them. CT6 and CTS are $10,000 apart on base price and like $6,000 apart V6 to V6 with all wheel drive. E-class to S-class is a $45,000 jump. Larger gap there. That is because the S Class too high to begin with and that does not mean an only $10K gap is going to be a big deal. There is only a $13K gap between the C-Class and E-Class. How many sales are being robbed there? And AGAIN, a V8 is coming. Just drop it already with the "it needs a V8" non sense when it is getting one. And please stop comparing pony car buyers to luxury car buyers. That is just asinine. S-class isn't priced too high, it is the #1 seller in it's segment for decades. I am not comparing pony car buyer to luxury car buyer, but only saying both tend to be car enthusiasts. Luxury buyers like V8s, Infiniti, Genesis, K900, Lexus GS, LS, BMW 5-series and up, Jaguars, Mercedes, Audi, etc. They all have V8s, have had them for years. Cadillac made a mistake when they cancelled the Northstar replacement 5-10 years ago. Better late than never, but if Cadillac is serious, and I think they are actually, you need to bring the big guns.

You don't think the Corvette won't have a V8 in 5-10 years? The V8 will survive in performance cars and top end luxury cars because enthusiasts want them. If batteries get cheap and get more capacity, that is when they will get more into the main stream. No doubt 4-cylinders will be common place even in the $30-50k cars and probably a lot of crossovers as well. I think the Chevy Traverse could be 4 cylinder in 2017 for example. But the V8 won't just die off. And Mercedes offers 4-cyldiners since the competition uses them, and they do have to hit CAFE and the Euro regs and Chinese displacement tax. Mercedes sill offers a V12 and has said they will continue to well into the future. If they want to sell those V12s and V8s they do need to offset somewhere. Plus a lot of C-class buyers and probably a fair number of E-class buyers are happy with 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. But the bigger engines are always offered too.

So since you admit that it does not compete with the S Class, then why does it need a V8 now (I say "now" because a V8 is on the way, as you have been told many times here)? The XTS is on the way out and it will no more steal sales from the CTS than the S Class does from the E Class. CT6 needs a V8 because a lot of big luxury sedan buyers like a V8. Chrysler 300C buyers like V8s, Genesis G90, K900 have V8s, the 6-series, CLS and A7 offer V8s. I'd imagine a lot of buyers spending $70k might want the V8 option. Even the Camaro and Mustang have V8s, because sports car enthusiasts like them. CT6 and CTS are $10,000 apart on base price and like $6,000 apart V6 to V6 with all wheel drive. E-class to S-class is a $45,000 jump. Larger gap there.

The Audi A8L V8 does 0-60 in 4 seconds and gets 29 mpg highway. Car and Driver had the 2013 A8 at 3.9 seconds, and they added 15 hp last year. It is a pretty quick car. The CT6 needs that V8 option. I agree that luxury cars are like printing money, that is why I was advocating for more Cadillac models in one of the other threads. Cadillac needs a convertible and the expanded crossover lineup in a hurry. The profit gold mine for GM is in the Cadillac brand, not the others.