smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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To go with this..kind of.. Personally, I would rather have a loaded up smaller vehicle than a stripped down larger vehicle. I could have bought an Edge when I bought my escape but it would have been a lesser trim, 2wd(not like I NEED AWD), and it would have literally only been a larger vehicle. This trend is exactly what is fueling the sub-compact crossover market. When the Encore first came out it was really the first of its kind. The Nissan Juke was there, but it doesn't really have any usable space or rear seat room. Buick was very specifically targeting people coming out of Explorers, Volvo XC90s, Highlanders, etc, who no longer wanted to wheel around such large vehicles and no longer needed that sort of room. People trading down is exactly why the GLA, CLA, A3, Q3, X1, 1/2-series, Encore, Trax, etc exist. Or are they trading up from a CR-V or Rav4 into X1, GLA, etc? People want luxury brand names, and compact SUVs like Escape, Rav4 and CRV together can sell nearly a million units a year. Even if 5% of those people go to a luxury compact crossover, that is 50,000 new buyers. Size creep plays a role here too, a CLA is larger than a 2007 C-class, look at a 90s 3-series compared to today's 3-series. Look at a 90s Accord compared to the near full size Accord they sell now. If you had a 2005 Malibu and liked that size car and walk into a Chevy dealer, the Cruze is closer to that size than the current Malibu is, so maybe you just buy the Cruze that has enough room and a lower payment.
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General Motors first quarter this year posted a $1.95 billion profit. Porsche for the first quarter had a $992 million profit. GM sold 9.8 million cars per year, and Porsche sold 225,000. GM sells 44 cars to every 1 Porsche, beats them only 2 to 1 in real profit dollars. Porsche makes more total profit dollars (or Euros in this case) per year than VW brand, and VW brand sells 5 million cars a year.
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But a car like the Fusion has gone up in price to where the Taurus was. And people are turning away from larger cars. I do agree that car prices are rising faster than salaries, which really puts a boom on cars like Escape, Soul, Elantra, Rogue, Fusion, etc. A lot of those used to be bare bones model cars, but now have the power heated seats, nav-system, apple car play, and upgraded stereo that used to be on the luxury cars.
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Buick News: Rumorpile: Buick Shows Off A Regal Wagon To Their Dealers
smk4565 replied to William Maley's topic in Buick
In 2015 SUV was the #1 selling body style in Europe at 22.5%. Subcompact car was 22%, compact car was 20.6%, and MPV was 4th with 10.5%. MPV would be your B-class, Ford S-max, Fiat 500L, VW Golf Sportvan, etc. So those are close to crossovers, sort of Europe's minivan. Mid-size sedan and station wagon are 9% of European car sales, and most of that is sedan, so the wagon market in Europe is even pretty dead at this point. -
They don't all trade up to an M3 obviously. Most could not afford too. But you have to offer that high end option for those that want more. It is why there is a V-series. High trim levels are where the profits live. Porsche is the classic example. I went on the Porsche website and built a 911 Carrara 4S and was able to put over $72,000 in options. $3,000 was PDK transmission and there was no engine upgrade. That is $69,000 of paint, trim, equipment, wheels, etc, crazy profit margin.
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Think of this, Cadillac could sell 50-60,000 XT5 in a year. If it had an LT1 Corvette engine in there for $65k, they couldn't get 5% of XT5 buyers to buy that? That is 3,000 sales at a good profit margin. CTS sells about 15,000 cars a year, even if V-series is a 15% take rate (which is generous) that is 2,250 high margin sales per year.
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The very demonstrable problem with this theory is car buyers DO NOT do that. They don't continually trade up & up on models, it's an anomaly if it happens. Look at BMW: 5 series sales are 50% of 3-series, and 7-series sales are 20-25% of 5 series sales. Where did all the trade up consumers go?? Answer: they keep buying the same class for the vast majority. People aren't buying a 300HP Class X, then a 450HP Class X, then a 600HP Class X. That is sort of my point, they aren't trading up to a bigger model, they trade up within the model line. The 328i driver trades up to a 335i or 340i, the 340i driver trades up to an M3 or a 440i Grand Coupe which is just a 340i that he paid more money for since it says "grand coupe" on the trunk even though it doesn't look like a coupe and it isn't grand. That 340i driver that wants more doesn't want a 7-series size car, so the M3 works better for them. If there was no high performance 3-series, BMW would lose that customer. Now in Mercedes case, the GLE outsells the GLC, and the E-class years ago outsold the C-class, but the C-class has really grown its numbers recently. GLC and GLE only have 6 inches of length difference between them, that is an easy trade up, but for an XT5, where do you trade up to? The full size truck Escalade? No you don't, you trade for a BMW X5 or Mercedes GLE and never go back. Cadillac loses a customer.
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Buick News: Rumorpile: Buick Shows Off A Regal Wagon To Their Dealers
smk4565 replied to William Maley's topic in Buick
The Volvo V60 and V60 cross country combined sell like 350 a month. Even if Buick steals half of Volvo's wagon sales they are maybe getting 200 Regal wagons a month sold. The Subaru Outback is the only wagon that sells well because it is not that much like a wagon and Subaru has a bit of a cult following. And the Outback starts at $25,000, I don't think Buick is going to price a Regal Wagon like that. This is a really small niche market, and it isn't a high margin niche. I am not against wagons either, they have the cargo capacity of a crossover, but still drive like a car. But the market place doesn't buy wagons. -
So why is Jeep putting a Hellcat in a Grand Cherokee? There are people that have a Grand Cherokee with a Hemi, that will want more. Why isn't that Grand Cherokee SRT buyer buying a BMW M3 is they care about performance? Because someone out there is buying SRT Grand Cherokees. And some people don't want to go up in size. Someone driving a 535i or GLE350 when they trade up, they might not want a 7-series or a 3-row GLS, they might just want more power, performance, features and go to an M5 or AMG version of the GLE. This is a void Cadillac misses, if you have an SRX or XT5 and want a more luxurious, or better performing vehicle, and don't want a full size SUV, then you have to leave the brand. Not everyone wants to trade up in size, this is easily shown by how full size sedan sales are falling off the map. Full size SUV/crossover are flat for a lot of models, but small and mid-size crossover are on fire.
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And then that BMW X3 M driver will realize that a straight six with massive boost isn't enough, and they will say... And they will go to the local Mercedes dealer and say And trade that X3 M in on an AMG GLC63 with a 503 hp V8. Then 5 years later they will go back to the same Mercedes dealership and say... And then they will buy a GLE63 with 612 hp, and the cycle continues.
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The first 2 paragraphs I 100% agree with. The car that is lighter, lower, etc will have better handling, braking, acceleration, etc. The car will perform far better than a crossover/SUV built on the same or similar platform. I would take the car 10 times out of 10 over the SUV also. You, me, and other car fans are the reason the M5 or E63 or CTS-V, etc came out. There were enough people that wanted more than a 540i, more than an E430, so they put performance car engines in sedans and now you have a slew of 500 hp super sedans out there. These performance buyers will keep buying their performance sedans, Porsches, Corvettes, etc, they aren't going to buy an X5 M, unless it is a 2nd car or alternative to their Porsche 911. But think of how many people buy crossovers now, and won't consider a sedan. Those people only want to shop for a crossover/suv, and this is like 35-40% of all car buyers. There is a segment of that crowd that will say I want more than an X3 drive 28i, they will want more power and performance than the Lexus RX they have been driving the past 5 years, and they will walk into BMW and say... And they'll by a 450 hp X3. Escalade and as the article mentions, Coming Soon - Something Between XT5 and Escalade.... lets call it the XT6. I hope that XT6 is based on Omega with the CT6's 400 hp twin turbo V6 and coming 4.2 liter turbo V8. But it will probably be a long wheel base XT5, basically the size of an Enclave with the same 3.6 liter as the range topper pulling 5,000 lbs of weight. And the Escalade is slow and under powered and not good at handling. What if I want sub 5 second 0-60 time in my crossover? That is no crazier than people wanting sub 4 second 0-60 time in their sedan.
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On a side note, I just learned the GLE550 hybrid is on sale now for $65,550 which is only $950 more than a GLE400. And the GLE hybrid has 436 hp, 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and has an MPRe rating of 39/50. What does the XT5 have? 310 hp and 18/26 mpg. Where is the hybrid for the Euro cities that are emission free, and have congestion charges such as London.
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But Suzy McMansion buys the lowest common denominator luxury crossover which is the Lexus RX. Suzy as you said caps her purchase at $499 a month. What about the more discriminating buyers that will pay $999 a month for a crossover? Suzy McMansion's parents you could argue are happy with a Buick LaCrosse since it has leather, heated seats and a V6 and is $499 a month, but Cadillac makes a 400 hp CT6 too don't they. You can run the price of a Porsche Macan $30,000 above an Escalade ESV Platinum and the Macan is about the size of a Buick Envision, and it shares a platform with the Audi Q5. Think of the insane profit margin on a Macan.
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That is the most asinine thing you've said on this entire thread. You are a Cadillac fan you seem happy that Cadillac's mid-size SUV starts at $39,000 while the German mid-sizers are over $50k, and you seem to think 310 hp is the max power Cadillac should put in a crossover. Don't you want more than that?
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Buick News: Rumorpile: Buick Shows Off A Regal Wagon To Their Dealers
smk4565 replied to William Maley's topic in Buick
A Regal wagon would sell so few units, I don't know if they'd recoup the cost of certifying it. The Regal sells about 15-20,000 cars a year at a 5% take rate for the wagon you are looking at less than 1,000 units a year. They just cut the Verano due to poor sales, when it outsells the Regal like 3 to 1. I wonder how much longer the Regal sedan has on the market, let alone adding a wagon. -
To be clear, I think 100% of Cadillac's models should have a V-series version. If they are going to build a CTS-V and tout the performance, then all other vehicles in the lineup should be treated the same way. I have also often said Cadillac should have a performance car above Corvette as well. What baffles me is Cadillac fans here saying no thanks, we don't want a twin turbo V6 crossover, we don't want a mid-engine supercar, we don't want a V8 convertible, we don't want a twin Turbo V8 full size crossover, no thanks to a supercharged V8 Escalade, the XT5 is the pinnacle of automotive performance, no reason to build anything better.
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You can't argue that Cadillac is superior to the German competition because of the Alpha and Omega chassis and the associated handling and weight savings, and claim the CTS-V with 640 hp is the best sedan out there because of his horsepower rating, and then turn around and say the front drive V6 XT5 which is basically like a crossover Malibu/Impala type vehicle is better than the rear drive, lower weight, higher power German Crossovers. If rear drive, alpha chassis, omega chassis, and V8s are good, then they should be in Cadillacs crossovers. A Cadillac crossover should perform just as close to a CTS as possible. 15 years ago I bet a lot of people were saying Cadillac didn't need a 400 hp sedan to compete with the M5 and E55, then the Germans got so many sales and left Cadillac in the dust so they had to react. Then Cadillac fans thought the CTS-V was the best car ever made because it had a Corvette engine in it. When Cadillac should have had engines better than the Corvette all along. Now all the others have good crossovers, Cadillac has mass market fwd and no performance. You aren't a performance brand with 2 performance products. Funny how everyone hear will rip the CLA and GLA for being front wheel drive, but then say the XT5 which is 2 size segments and 1 price segment above is fine with front wheel drive. Mercedes also makes 600+ hp sedans, coupes, convertibles, and SUVs, and the E63 wagon probably makes over 600 hp but they claim 577. Cadillac is having problems getting past 500 hp with the exception of 1 sedan.
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Does Cadillac need a 500 hp Sedan? Crossovers outsell sedans gang, and are rising, sedans are falling. No point in having V-series at all if you only have 2 V products in shrinking segments. And Cadillac wants to go to Europe, the top 5 Established luxury brands in Europe (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, JLR) all make performance crossovers.
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BMW's hand was forced by SQ5, Porsche Macan, and the forthcoming AMG GLC. There has to be an X3 340i equivalent and M version. They are in fact last to the party on this one.
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We'll see how the XT5 handles against this, especially the near 500 hp X3 M, I don't know what engine is in here, but it looks pretty fast for an SUV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSk6-EHts8Q
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An SRX has a 59/41 weight distribution, I couldn't find what the XT5 is. A BMW X3 has a 48/52 weight balance. I also said the GLA is probably the worst handling Mercedes outside of a commercial cargo van. I haven't driven a GLA, but the FWD weight balance problems will plague that vehicle too, it might just be less noticeable in a 3,300 lb vehicle. FWD is used on the GLA to keep it cheap, and get a good EPA fuel economy number to help their CAFE. FWD, transverse mount engine cars can never match performance, ride, and handling of rear drive, longitudinal mount engines, all other things being equal.
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The GLA probably has the worst driving dynamics of any Mercedes not named Sprinter. Well I don't know what a G-wagen is like, I never drove one of those, but that is a tank and not really concerned with handling, fuel economy or things normal cars worry about. I actually never drove a GLA or CLA, I have sat in both, but my dealership doesn't even use them as loaners. I've driven the GLK and GL, they are both good a crossover, but no match for a car. GLA and CLA are made to help CAFE and appeal to bargain basement luxury shoppers. Notice the rest of the Mercdedes line isn't front drive. It is like how Chevy makes the front drive Cruze, but they aren't using front drive for the Camaro or Corvette. All wheel drive doesn't fix weight bias. The GLC, Macan, and X3 are all wheel drive also, but they aren't saddled with 60 or 63% of their weight over the front axel. I'd love to see a comparison of driving dynamics of an XT5 vs a Macan Turbo or an F-pace or GLC43.
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But XT5 isn't built on Alpha or Omega though, it is built on a platform shared with a GMC Acadia. I am not knocking the driving dynamics of alpha or omega, I have said all along Cadillac SUVs should be built on alpha and omega, not the Chevrolet parts bin. Because Lincoln and Lexus have built SUVs on the Ford and Toyota parts bin and they never got out of the entry lux market (aside from a 6-8 year success of the Navigator which is long over). On size the XT5 compares to the GLE and BMW X5, it doesn't hold a candle to those 2. The XT5 is like the original CTS, 5-series size for 3-series money. XT5 may compare well to a Lincoln MKX or Lexus RX350. As far as Porsche Macan goes, it is a bit hard to segment it, because it is a small SUV, but starts at $48k, and the options run it high fast. I priced out a Macan Turbo on the ridiculous Porsche model configurator, I didn't pick a wheel upgrade, got leather seats (no alcantara upgrade) premium package, a sport package, LED lights, air suspension, torque vectoring awd, sport exhaust, adaptive cruise control and Burmeister audio. The total was $101,260. I skipped over all the carbon fiber trim upgrades, customer paint, red seat belts, painted air vents, etc, I also left off the $8,000 carbon ceramic brakes and $10,200 Turbo appearance package. I could have run it up over $125,000.
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SMK, you jump to saying MB is the best approach to building an EV and yet you clearly DID NOT read the full story. BMW will have a new platform for this updated 3 series that will cover gas, diesel, plug-in and EVs. This new platform will take a page from their I series with using carbon fiber to reduce weight and improve structural rigidity. I did read the whole story. Why does an EV 3 series need a body and that accommodates an inline six engine and 8 speed transmission? The anchor points and front end bracing is a lot for a diesel engine. If you had a chassis designed for an EV, like Tesla does, you get more interior room, better weight distribution, etc. And you just shot yourself in the foot SMK, cause MB is doing just what BMW is doing and yet now your saying this is no good, so then you are admitting that the MB all in one new platform for Petrol, Diesel, Hybrid Plug-in and EV is wrong, MB needs two platforms like what BMW tried to do with the i platform before realizing they could tweak the carbon fiber system to support all formats. Ans how is this wrong again? How is MB doing what BMW is doing? Mercedes isn't making pure EV versions of the C-class and E-class. They have plug in hybrid models planned, that rely on the gas 2.0T motor. Mercedes is making a new platform that will support 2 electric sedans and 2 electric crossovers, while the current MRA platform supports C-class, E-class, and GLC. 2 separate platforms for the different power source, thus each are purpose built. BMW wants to cut corners by putting everything on one platform. The new MRE or EVA platform (whatever they decide to call it) is designed to house battery packs in it, MRA is not, so you get batteries in the trunk and under back seats and in less than ideal places. Mercedes is spending $8 billion in the next 2 years on plug-ins and EV and green powertrain (i.e. 48 volt system). Their EVs will take BMW to the woodshed, just as the S-class has done to the 7-series for the past 40 years. BMW would be better served I think turning the i3 platform into a 3-series sedan bodied product and just call it 3-series electric. Underneath the skin it would share nothing in common with a 328i, but to what the customers see it would be pretty much the same, and thus they would buy it.
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For now, the Cadillac DTS outsold the 5-series at one point in time, until the market passed it by. I think there will be more demand for the rear drive luxury crossover as time goes on. The Lexus RX, MKX and XT5 will always have sales because Chevy/Buick, Ford and Toyota have big volumes of customers that will move up into those 3 vehicles, but that is where that customer will max out too. The person that buys a Lexus RX will never spend more than $50k on a car, they'll buy an RX 4 times in a row. And that sort of buyer is a commodity buyer, limited profit margin, unlike a Porsche Macan which attracts an enthusiast buyer and huge profit margin. XT5 won't do any damage in Europe, it doesn't have the driving dynamics those buyers are going to except. I would also guess with an XT3 and Xt1 on the lot, the XT5 sales will drop. Cadillac has one crossover, when most brands have 4.
