smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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A hatch might cost more. I assume 5.6 0-60 and 215 miles is the base car. I assume there an upgrade?
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Escalade must be new in China, they didn't sell it there last year. The displacement tax must be huge on it. And why doesn't Cadillac have more models? GM should triple Cadillac's budget so that they can have 5 crossovers, convertibles, Hyper cars l, electric cars and what ever else they want.
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One post earlier mentioned the STS with 304 hp and the 469 hp V, which was still less than an E63, and the 320 hp Northstar STS was less than the 382 hp E550. But more importantly the STS is dead. DTS, Fleetwood, Eldorado, XLR, all dead. They are about to kill the CTS. All this stuff Cadillac tried and it all failed. I said years ago when the CTS was a tweener it needs to be 5-series size and 5-series price (or 3-series size and 3-series price with STS aimed at the 5). I said when the CT6 came out it was priced too low, they aimed too low. I have said for years Cadillac needs a sports car above Corvette and even in the $200,000 range. I used to be a big Cadillac fan, I liked the Northstar era Cadillacs, I liked the XLR (not so much at that price, but I liked the car). But for years it has been over promise and under deliver, looking for short cuts and stop gaps, and going to the GM parts bin. I don't hate Cadillac, I am being realistic. I'd like to see Cadillac make a $175,000 V12 + hybrid sedan or an SUV that can run the Nurburgring in under 8 minutes, or a sports car that can go 200+ mph and 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. Make and ATS-V R with a 640 hp V8, all wheel drive, 10-speed auto and carbon fiber body panels. I'd like to see Cadillac make more EV's than Tesla, come out with 5 all new EV models in the next 5 years. Bring it all on. Cadillac lives in their fears (as Mike Tomlin would say), they lack the guts to actually be "the Standard of the World" so Johan and crew play pretend like they are a top luxury brand, when in reality they are not.
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The A-class hatchback, the cheapest Mercedes sold in China, costs more than a Buick Lacrosse in China. Buick isn't competing with Mercedes over there. Their full size flagship can't even command Mercedes compact hatchback prices.
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Buick and Chevy and Cadillac??? Do you all realize what Buicks cost in China? The Enclave is by far the most expensive at 509,000 RMB, which is $74,000 US. The 2nd most expensive Buick is the GL8 minivan at 289,900 with a top Avenir trim at 449,900 RMB. (Mercedes sells the Vito/Metris there for 299,000 and 489,000 which is rather similar) The most expensive Buick car in China is the Velite (Volt) at 265,800 or $41,681 US. Buick has 5 products in China under 200,000 yuan or $29,000 USD. More of a VW competitor in China. A Mercedes CLA in China is 249,000 yuan, a base C-class is 325,800, so already way above any Buick other than Enclave. The S-class starts at 938,000 RMB or $137,000, and goes up to 2,998,000 RMB for an S65, which is $437,000. Mercedes also has the GLS, G, SL and AMG GT with base prices over 1 million RMB also.
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From wikipedia: "The different body styles of the W126 S-Class achieved a combined sales total of 892,123 units (818,063 sedans and 74,060 coupés), making the W126 the most popular S-Class ever produced." I think still to this day the W126 S-class is the number 1 selling luxury car of all time. It was pretty much the car that cemented Mercedes world wide reputation and sales growth. Those 80s Cadillacs are what killed Cadillac's reputation and led to their demise.
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Buick sells econoboxes like the Excell in China. And the entire Mercedes portfolio in China, is Mercedes. 1 brand of luxury cars. So I compared it to one brand of luxury cars.
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The diesel heavy duty trucks are way dirtier than the Jetta's and cars like that. Maybe they have defeat devices too. Maybe this is just all a witch hunt to get rid of diesel, because it seems like every car maker is under investigation. And even just the cost of paying all the lawyers, the bad press, etc will make them want to quit making diesels.
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A "fully loaded" Hyundai Sonata is $50k less than a CT6, doesn't make it better. Fully loaded doesn't mean anything when one car has half the features of the other. The S-class has factory bullet proofing as an option even, it not only comes in short and long wheelbase, but in Maybach and Pullman versions as well, plus coupe and convertible. My 9 year old Mercedes faster than top engine CT6. So why would someone with a 4-5 year old Mercedes and $100k laying around want a CT6? As far as China goes, Cadillac sold 116,000 cars there in 2016. Jaguar-Land Rover sold 119,000. Mercedes sold 472,000, BMW (with Mini) 516,000 and Audi 591,000. In Europe Mercedes sold 840,000 units, Audi 831,000, and BMW 821,000. Jaguar-Land Rover sold 222,000 and Cadillac isn't even a player there. Cadillac in 2017 should sell more vehicles in China than the USA, but they need more crossovers in both markets in a bad way.
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It is actually physically impossible for a V8 to have the NVH that a V12 can achieve. You can't get Rolls Royce Phantom refinement out of a V8. That is why Mercedes sticks with that V12 even when their V8 car is faster. You also can't charge as much for a V8 as you can a V12. With the Bentley Mulsanne being the lone exception.
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I have always said the Escalade is highly successful. I don't like that it is a Tahoe but to the people buying it they want a big trucky SUV and the Escalade hits the sweet spot for those buyers. Cadillac would be fools to change the formula on that product. The Escalade is not sold in China which is the number 1 auto market in the world now. That is a problem. Escalade doesn't sell to the performance crowd. Cadillac fans preach how the CT6's weight makes it best in class the Escalade is the heaviest and thirstiest in its class. A polar opposite of what Cadillac tries to do with their sedans. I have thought for years they need another large SUV that can do performance and that can sell in China, Omega platform would fit that.
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Fully loaded is relative. The CT6 doesn't have a V8 or a V12, doesn't have a refrigerator, heated arm rests, a sunroof that can change from clear glass to solid with push up a button, doesn't have pillow head rests or champagne flutes, no autonomous drive or Lidar, the list goes on. You can option an S-class up to $250,000. If the CT6 was so good, then Cadillac would charge $130,000 for it and sell 100,000 a year. But they can't do that, the S-class is the only car in the world that can sell that volume at that price. Escalade isn't even sold in Europe or China, so Cadillac's premier product though a huge cash cow in the USA misses completely in 2 of the 3 largest auto markets in the world.
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The S-class is built to be the best car in the world, which it has been for the past 40+ years. Whether the car is used as a taxi or by a CEO to drive to the golf course doesn't really matter. They don't have a cheap version of it and it isn't based on any other car. Cadillac has lots of livery vehicles, and that doesn't matter either. It the crossovers built on a Chevy platform that can't match performance with the Germans, Jaguar or even Infiniti that matters. It is discount luxury brand pricing that matters. And I know someone will say but ATP is up the past 2 years, and that is mostly because ATS sales have been down 30% the past 2 years.
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The AMG V12 hasn't really seen an power increase in 10 years, because they want to protect the transmission and drivetrain and not have reliability issues. Plus you can only get so much power on the ground. There was talk a couple years ago that AMG would raise the power of the V12, that engine makes well over 800 lb-ft but they de-tune it. But they haven't done anything. I'd like to see them get all wheel drive matched with the V12 so they can get the power down and let it loose. Mercedes can get 200 hp per liter if they want, they already do it on the CLA45, their F1 car makes like 500 hp per liter. So the know how is there, they just don't seem to want to change the V12. Ferrari doesn't do a lot with batteries, the LaFerrari is more like the F1 energy recovery system and electric boost motor, I don't think think it can drive on battery alone like the Porsche 918 can. I think when AMG gets into that, they are going to make a big splash, because they are going to apply the F1 technology to the road, Yep, and police cars, and emergency services SUVs, military trucks, semi trucks, garbage trucks, busses, etc. All that and still no one can beat them in luxury cars, no one can beat them in racing.
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Well the 7-series is cheaper than the S-class and also not as good. But since the original 7-series back in the late 70s, it has been the closest competitor to the S-class. A CT6 starts $40k cheaper than an S-class, and a loaded CT6 is $150,000 cheaper than a loaded S-class. That is a big gap.
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Yep. I would have to think if they were hiding something it would have been found by now. They have been selling diesels pretty much non stop the past 40 years. And they seem to over engineer everything they make. Whether they find something or not, or fine them or not, I think Mercedes is about to run far away from diesel anyway. They see the future as battery power, and the Euro countries want electric cars, I just hope those countries have clean power plants, because if they burn coal and natural gas to make the electricity to power millions of cars that is pretty pointless.
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A V8? That isn't an alternative to a V12. That is the same as saying the Alfa Romeo 4C's 4 banger is an alternative to the Corvette. A V12 is the grand daddy of them all. Now the alternative could be some sort of twin turbo 6 or 8 cylinder with electric motors combining to make 700 hp or so. AMG is going to go there, but I don't know if anyone else is anytime soon.
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Wait, the 7-series does not compete with the S-class? That has been the #1 rival since the 80s. And there is an M760Li with a 601 hp V12 that starts at $154,795 before getting into the options list. CT6 is a far cry from that.
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I know it is a tweener, but Cadillac basically has 3 sedans over lapping each other in the $46-75k segment. They need to clean that up, move the CTS up in price, move the CT6 up in price. The original CTS was a tweener, always trying to be the price leader, why on earth is Cadillac worried about being a price leader? Let Buick be bargain luxury, that is what it is there for. They should raise Cadillac prices 20% across the board, then tell the engineers to load up on content and luxury to match the price.
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Do you really want to compare the CT6 to an S-class? They aren't even close. So I think it better to compare the CT6 to the cars it has similar price too, which is E-class and 5-series from Germany, maybe Audi A7 from the VW camp. If you want to compare size and price, the CT6 lines up directly with the Genesis G90 and Kia K900. And that is irrelevant segment.
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Unless th CT8 gets a V12 it is no S-class competitor. The 7-series, Flying Spur and Ghost and even the A8 have 12 cylinder options.
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CT6, E-class, A6 and 5-series all start with a 2 liter four, all offer a 3 liter six of some sort. The problem is the CT6 has nothing above the 3 liter Six when the Germans do. The E43 has 396 hp and 394 lb-ft and does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. That can easily outrun the CT6 3.0TT. The 2017 BMW 550i does 0-60 in 4 seconds flat, it is actually as fast as a 2016 M5. The S6 does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, which is Corvette fast. So the Germans are all faster at their "sport" level, and they all offer another level above that.
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I think the E is better after sitting in both, but CT6 is competitive in the segment for sure. But the CTS is also supposed to be competing in the midsize segment. What Cadillac should do is put the CT6 interior in the CTS, the CTS interior in the ATS and upgrade CT6 to something above Escalade Platinum interior. This will make all 3 of their sedans more competitive.
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Might leave buyers scratching their heads too. I still think it more of a 5-series, E-class competitor, because the CT6 is the same size as a 90s STS and Cadillac wanted that to be a 5-series/E-class competitor, with full size at mid-size price. If you take an E43 it starts at $72k, but with premium 3 package, metallic paint and heated/cooled seats as the only options added, the price hits $81,795 and you could get it to $87k with the rest of the options. If you take an S550 4Matic with premium package as the only option it is $105,025. However, if you check all the option boxes except for the refrigerator and dealer accessories I was able to option an S550 up to $156,765. And that is with the base engine in the S-class, we aren't even to the V12 or the AMG yet. This is why I think CT6 is more E-class competition
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It isn't a high horse, you stated that ease of parking was an advantage of buying the CT6 over the other big sedans, but they all self park. So it is a non issue really. No V8 in the CT6, and a base 4 cylinder, so they aren't going for performance. I think they should have done more with the interior so they had something that stands out against the competition.
