Flybrian

A sad day indeed. Thank God our flattops were out at sea otherwise the war would've started very, very differently. As it were, the Imperial Navy merely managed to scuttle our aging warships for us. I watched my DVD of Tora! Tora! Tora! today and must reiterate its one of the greatest war films made. Avoid the Affleck/Damon Pearl Harbor like expired ham; the effects are good, but the story is very Cliff Noted compared to Tora!, which portrayed the American and Japanese side very well.

Even if you're so old you can't get a license, you can still get a Buick. :P Seriously, that's pretty slick. Where's the Avalon golf cart?

See, that looks...meh...okay...but imagine it with the tops up. Lousy. Plus, that was more of a bathtub shape. Something as rounded and flowing as the Sixteen relies on its solid roofline for its looks. A dual cowl whatever would make it...again...awkward.

That would be extrodinarily awkward.

My real world is Buick/Mercury world. Even I can sell Buicks here.

Exactly. In this case, it comes down to taste and preference as it should. Cars should not be homogenized beyond what's proscribed by federal regulation. Toyota chooses to splash their controls in a decorative fashion with the Avalon and I find their layout cold, irritating, and sharing an overall aura with a Panasonic VCR. I see the Lucerne as more clear and obvious as to its presentation. Yes, the stack could use some work, but so could the Avalons. Choice and preference.

Thank you for your interest in the 2006 Toyota Avalon. Toyota continues to innovate and bring forth new innovations, such as the innovative innovation you've written us about. This innovation is sure to be recognized as one of the most inventive innovations ever innovated. Enclosed is a 2006 Avalon brochure, a DVD-disc with the automatic windshield wiper commercial looped for 1-hour, and a list of local Toyota retailers who have been provided with your phone number and will begin calling you...now. Thank you. The Toyota Team. Oh, what a feeling!

You won't believe how many times that exact same thing has happened to me this month. Seven.

Again, I must reiterate the Avalon in reality is not the grand. Touch and feel it and see if you think its myriad concealments will last...or even if they feel nice. I have and my opinion is that they don't. Also, as far as the Lucerne CX comment, don't condemn an entire line of cars by the base model intended to sell to LeSabre Custom/Park Avenue base clientele.

Sorry, but that's just sad and hollow.

I have no blinders. I recognize the fact that comparing the Camry to the Lucerne isn't really a fair comparison as the Camry will - as its always have - appeal to those seeking personality-less, bland transportation. I also recongnize Lucerne vs. Avalon is a more realistic comparison and at least inside, the Avalon is nothing to be proud of; truly a car that looks better in pictures than it does in life. I've also heard early reviews mark the Avalon as actually being the floatier of the two, which makes sense as the Lucerne seems to share more with the last Aurora than the preceeding LeSabre, and the '01 Aurora was a great handler for being so large. I can't vouch personally for any 3.5l V6 Toyota has, but my experience with the Northstar and its related engines sets a very high benchmark in my mind. Its smooth, very powerful, and never breathless. I've driven a few cars with 'high-output' six cylinders and they don't have the same comfortable feel as a V8, though the horsepower figures may be close. I realize the Lucerne isn't perfect; no car is, not a Toyota, not anything. But I acknowledge its a damn fine automobile. It rides on arguably the best front-wheel drive platform to date in terms of driving characteristics, strength, and safety. Its components have inherent qualities that I don't know yet the Toyota has, such as a powerplant that can still run crippled of coolant and one of the most resiliant unibody structures out there. You can take the words I say and call them blinders. I call them testimony because my experiences with the Lucerne's predecessors have led to my opinion, much like those of Honda owners led them to theirs. GM built a series of vehicles that proved to me that they can still build a goddamn fine fullsize car and it'll take something more than Toyota's 'reputation' and this 'V6 with the power of a V8' argument to change my mind. I don't believe GM has come all the way yet with all their products and I'll admit that right up front. But you can't throw Lucerne in there with other nearly-theres like the G6 and LaCrosse. That's my opinion based on experiences, not 'because its GM, its good'; you don't have to share it.

I believe it was a little of both. Lutz believed people would buy certain cars not caring whether or not it has ABS and if it were a choice of that option or another $695 knocked off the sticker, they'd chose the lower price. This is needless to say a bad assumption.

I doubt the Camry V6 is a better engine than the Northstar. Regardless of what it is, its still six cylinders. Also, the Lucerne is decidedly classier and will obviously be far less common than a pedestrian Camry. Lucerne vs. Avalon is far more appropriate.

If you guys want to delve into a personal tet-a-tet over your jobs, your lives, your mothers, do it through PM/e-mail/or fisticuffs. Back to the point...

GM also had one of the first in-car navs driven by an inertial naviagtion system. GM put out HUDs before anyone but General Dynamics and McDonnell Douglas. GM crucified everyone in the late 1990s V6 horsepower war with a myriad of cars powered by the s/c 3800 II V6, that put out 240hp/280lb-ft in 1997 at an entry cost of around $25-27k (GTP/Regal GS) at a time when the Passat and Maxima cost alot more with under 200hp. GM wasn't the first with ABS, but they sure sold the shit out of it. And while some may immaturely mock the ABS badging scrawled on a myriad of lower-line Pontiacs and Chevrolets, at the end of the day, they had antilock brakes and the competition didn't. GM was the first to build and sell an all-electric car on a production scale. It wasn't a pickup with batteries shoved in the back either, it was ground-up an electric car with a drag cofficient of ~.18 that set world-beating times for top speed (~180mph). All for naught...the Camry has richly-textured sunvisors and that's what I'd rather have.

Centieme is wrong on about a half dozen levels. It has it, then it doesn't, then it gets it again, then it loses it.

This is a compelling reason to choose Pontiac/Buick over Chevrolet, Lexus over Toyota, Lincoln-Mercury over Ford, and a big reason why it was retarded to brand a car like the Phaeton a VW and curse it to Volkswagen lots. In my area, Chevrolet and Toyota lots are notoriously bad, though there is a very nice Chevy dealer here, with the Chevy ones being a little skeezy while the Toyota ones feel like a cross between a cattle call and an auto auction. I especially liked it the one time I went there with my friend to get some gift certificate redemption thing and they sent the lone Asian salesman out because I looked Asian.

I dun' wanna start no drama, no, no, no, no drama.

Pure and simple: They're illegal. C&G and other reputable sites do not want to put ourselves or our members at risk by postings these illegally-released images. I personally do not care what other sites do; I just know they won't be posted or linked to off this forum until they are officially released. There's a difference between getting the 'big scoop' and breaking the law...

I have to honestly wonder how often people use the third row.

Next up: A hybrid of the Durango and an attractive SUV.

OMG NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! NOT TRADEMARKED!!!!!!

Get ready to be asked to move things. :P Congratulations on one of the best trucks in the world. An extended cab brother of yours may be in our driveway sometime in the future.

I suppose in that sense, the TL keeps that old school TL entry-lux boat quality.

Its about time that Toyota finally built a car that lives up to that image. God knows the past half decade wasn't it.