Flybrian

I can say for a fact the Azera has LED tails. Saw one a few days ago at CostCo.

Mercury Montego (and Milan?) and Hyundai Azera

As my sig says,

Many cars have knob-adjustable lumbar, base LeSabres I know for sure. Its like in between the cheesy knob and full electronic.

Okay, here we go... Has anyone, anywhere, at any time actually had the opportunity to personally operate this car's trunk and stowage mechanism? I don't care about thinking, reading, seeing from a distance, asking, hearing, I'm talking about first-hand doing? Because I'm about to freak out, drive to Michigan, find out which train is taking out the first batch of G6s, hijack it, pop open a carrier, pull a G6 out, and see for myself. Well, not really. But I think others can understand where I'm coming from.

I wonder if they fixed the random dumb features that plagued the old Optima, like the ignition key that had to be inserted at a weird angle and all the deadplates. These cars need to be way less Korean.

Oh holy crap. I LOLed all over myself at the intro.

Shortstar died with the Aurora 3.5 and Oldsmobile in general. Sad to see it go as its reputedly a great engine and even carries the Limp-Home feature found in its bigger 8-cylinder cousins.

I think we're having a discrepency between the current Optima and the coming-in-Spring 2006.5 Optima. Has anyone (O.C.?) seen the new Optima? I'm seriously asking because I forgot the new one exists. I stand by my assessment that the original Optima was pretty chintzy, though not in a humorous way a la Amanti.

I know a few people with imports I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole that love them to death and always brag of their passion for them - a notable difference from bragging to 'impress' - and I respect their passion fully. Not for me, but I understand it as I feel the same way for my car.

As far as some of Ven's observations, things like the mouse-fur headliner and trunk hinges are something GM cars get ragged on constantly without abatement, yet how come Toyota can get away with it? I remember a very alarming blurb in Consumer Reports reading "WARNING Buick LeSabre and Pontiac Bonneville have hinged decklids which may damage contents in the trunk" or something to that affect. I was so distraught, I almost traded our Pontiac in for an Avalon until I discovered - oh - it has them, too. Furthermore, the hinges on both those Toyotas are completely unprotected while the hinges in GM fullsizers vary by design, but either disappear into an enclosed well (DeVille) or have low-intrusion goosenecks and rubber padding (Bonneville/LeSabre) to minimize any possible damage.

Are you referring to the upsweep on the side of the Saturn, because only Saturns have that...?

The Optima is a piece of crap, even compared to the Malibu. My father had one for a rental with 5,000 miles and I can testify to its lousiness.

Those mirrors ruin the look of all those cars. I think some reg(football) says that trucks/SUVs have to still have a third OSRV even today.

Its a fun retort for those of us who know the more uncouth, pretentious Lexus/Acura owners. I always made fun of someone my age who worked with me at my old job who had an Acura TL simply because he shoved it in everyone's face that, oooh, he had an Acura TL. I printed out an Accord TSB I found and put H stickers over his As for April Fool's.

You kidding me? This is Buickland. I've seen about 25 so far of all colors, trims, and drivetrains and sadly one with a vinyl top. However, the majority look great, especially in darker colors and that beautiful red tintcoat.

Every car that's ever rode on the G-body has been a fullsize luxury car - Riviera, PA, LeSabre, both Auroras, Seville, DeVille/DTS, and Lucerne. I see no issue there. The argument with the W-body has some basis, but its always been a mid-priced midsize car platform as have been all the cars riding it, from Lumina to LaCrosse, though the Buicks have always had more plus accruments. I think the issue with the Camry/ES connection is the Camry has always been a rather plebian car while the ES is intended to be an entry-luxury sedan of a totally different caliber. There's a stark contrast between a 4cyl Camry CE and a loaded ES330, less of one with the W and not that much with the G. The first ES250 was more or less a loaded Camry with frameless glass. This was pathetic and something almost rightfully likened to the much-maligned Cadillac Cimaron. The second-generation of ES was fairly well-seperated from the Camry, enough for it to be respectable and ditto for the third-gen/refresh/whatever you call it. The last Camry/ES330 took a step backwards, IMO, in design as the goofy proportions of the Camry itself was replicated in the Lexus. Can't speak of the newest one based on these pics yet. But, in simple, there was a time when the car rightfully earned that reputation, not so much now. I believe with each successive redesign, the ES shares less and less with the Camry. Still, its fun to say 'Nice Camry' to the guy who stole your parking space or planted his car an inch from your door. For the record, its been pointed out alot about the McBenz styling trend and consistantly-lookalike BMWs as well as the CTS/STS similarities. Again, I say across the line Cadillacs still manage to keep its family cues without looking contrived while someone like Mercedes can't help put to push the enlarge button on the big Mercedes-Xerox machine to make its cars. Again, Lexus used to have a lineup of cars that did look like Lexuses, but didn't look like size variations of the same car. I'm hoping they manage to keep that trend of shared cues but not replications.

In this case, I'm not biased. I admit the car has excellent features and aspects that are extrodinarily desireable (the hybrid, for one), but I think the design lack alot. I remember a time when the Camry carried itself with some sort of grace and presence. The 1992 model was the pinnacle of this, standing in stark contrast to most of its rivals, especially those from Japan. The 1997 redesign embodied that class as well. The 2002? I don't know what that car was about. Gangly, too narrow, too tall, awkward cues, and a laugable interior with a center console that didn't even line up with the dash. I was frankly amazed Camries continued to outsell the then-new Accord until I started seeing them show up in rental pools. The '07 improves drastically from the pits of the '02, but I can't say I find the design attractive at all. Mind you, I appreciate the detailing inside and out, but based on the exterior design, 'decent' would be the greatest compliment I could extend. For one, it keeps its predecessor's odd C-pillar/rear quarter glass treatment for reasons unknown, especially since this car is alot more rounded than the last. My greatest issue is the front end, which is bulbous and from what I've heard from Venseattle who saw it in person at Portland is very bulky and high off the ground. Toyota's website mentions something about increased pedestrian impact protection, so I assume this design meets EUROCAP safety regs for such. This disappoints me, especially in the facet that the area around the grille emblem looks like a ripe pimple. The cutline is also horrid above the grille. But the most disappointing element of the design overall is that it borrows from the Avalon, which is probably the least-attractive large car on the market today. You can see it in the saggy rear bumper, the oft-cribbed decklid shape, and the utterly pointless angular protrusion around the front end, something also seen on the Avalon. I don't like the car predominately because of these styling issues and yet I've always admitted this car would sell like nobody's business because I realize this segement doesn't care about sleek looks or the like - it just wants a car. And the '07 delivers that plain car with alot of good content. You'll just never sell me one if for no other reason than it looks bad in my eyes. Period. One question I do seriously ask is - with this and the ES - who in their right mind would buy an Avalon?

~104k-mile 2000 Bonneville SSEi whose problems have included a burnt-out taillamp bulb, a burnt-out license plate bulb, the HVAC condenser (warranty), and exterior window sill molding that seems to wear quickly - no discoloration, just a grainy plastic feel. Of course, this is one of those gadget-laden piece of junk American sedans with gizmos that fry out all the time, except they haven't. Ever. Maybe Mercedes or BMW could tear down one to see how to do electronics right.

Ted, Ted, Ted...forshame. You should know that's part of Toyota's "Take The Quality With You" program.

1980s Mazda 626 coupes, one redish, one bluish. Odd to see them at all. Also, a Corsica hatch. I've always thought those looked nifty.

Its still a rather ugly looking car and downright ungainly in sport form pictured with its crappy ground effects. The days of the decent-looking Camry have long since passed.

What Croc said. If you felt that guilty about taking the $50, then treat your friend to dinner, a trip, or a 'happy new car' present, like a gas card or accessories. In my mind, if you refuse the money, your g/f's uncle may be insulted - likely not to an unwarranted degree, but perhaps slightly offended you didn't accept his gift of commission. If you give it to your friend directly, explaining the situation, he may question the uncle's honesty about the price or worse, your motives involved in showing him this car - did you do it just to make some $$ for yourself at his expense? Again, those are possible outcomes, but again, I'd take the money and do something nice for all involved. Everyone wins.

There's a difference between following family themes and making every car look exactly like. Buicks, Mercuries, Cadillacs, and Hondas are examples of manufacturers who get it right. You know the car is a _____, but its not forced down your throat. Mercedes has become McBenz with its lookalike-except-for-size cars. Lexus used to have a decent theme without looking too contrived.

Oh, I realize this. I was making light of the fact that everyone does blame Chrysler and thier 'inferior' products with my "At least when a Chrysler..." statement.