Flybrian

This is true. I will add that this is really not directly representative of the quality of cars sold by those dealers in any way. I could buy a Sable that eats transmissions like Aamaco built it, but the LincMerc dealer always went out of their way to satisfy me - I'll rate the car poorly, but the dealer top notch. I could then buy an Accord that never has a major problem, but the dealers are complete assholes about every little thing - Car gets good marks, dealer can kiss my ass and lose my business. The ideal is a great car with great dealers. Why would one ever buy anything else? And oftentimes, dealerships balance out the inferior aspects of a car. The G6 may have a lousy dash, but I never want to deal with anyone at a Honda dealership. If I have to inconvenience myself to find a decent ___mobile dealer, then I may not buy that car, and believe me, there are brands that some people avoid because 5 of the 6 retailers are full of jerks.

It was for a reason Balthazar can reveal if he choses.

Information Images

I would argue that most old people are not easily satisfied. They will[/i[ take a car back three or four times to fix a sunvisor or gas gauge that reads a little high or something else a younger person would simply deal with. Also, add to the fact most older people are - by virtue of their age - retired and have no jobs. What else do they have to do besides vote, get the early bird special, and hang around the Buick dealership and bitch? Again, this is anecdotal, but every time I've had to visit my dealership for service (not that often), the same old couple on their eighth LeSabre (so I've overheard) are there everytime. I know its not a meaningful problem with the car because when they leave before I do, I hear things like, "Okay, Mr. So-and-So, your cupholder closes again."

Aww. Reg has an Aztek buddy!

Japan scolds Toyota on recall practices Yuri Kageyama / Associated Press TOKYO -- In a rare public scolding of Japan's biggest company, the government reprimanded Toyota Friday and called for improved recall practices amid a criminal investigation into a 2004 accident. The transportation ministry issued a "guidance" order requiring the automaker to report to the ministry by Aug. 4 steps it is taking to better monitor reports of defects with its cars and speed up communication within the company about possible problems, a ministry official said on customary condition of anonymity. The ministry did not fine Toyota or find it guilty of breaking the law. But public prosecutors, who are independent of the government, may still file charges against Toyota Motor Corp. officials under investigation. Toyota Executive Vice President Masatami Takimoto said the carmaker will do its best to beef up its practices as instructed by the ministry. "We take the directives from the ministry very seriously," he said in a statement. The widely reported recall investigation -- coming at a time when Toyota recalls are ballooning -- has been a major embarrassment for Toyota because of its solid reputation for quality. Earlier this month, police said they were sending papers to prosecutors on three Toyota officials in a criminal investigation on suspicion of professional negligence for allegedly shirking recalls for eight years. Police say they suspect the three Toyota officials, whose names have not been disclosed because they have not been charged, knew about the problems as far back as 1996 but took no action. The defects being investigated, a suspected faulty steering part, may have caused an August 2004 head-on crash in southwestern Japan that injured five people, they say. Toyota has denied any wrongdoing, saying the reported problems had not appeared serious enough to warrant a recall until October 2004, when Toyota recalled in Japan 330,000 Hilux Surf vehicles manufactured between December 1988 and May 1996. The 2004 recall affected more than a million vehicles sold in 180 nations, including the U.S. and Europe, and some problems had been reported from abroad, according to Toyota. None of the reports from abroad had caused accidents, the company said. At a news conference Thursday, Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe bowed deeply and apologized for the recall troubles that had stirred up worries among customers. He denied wrongdoing. "I take this seriously and see it as a crisis," said Watanabe. "I want to apologize deeply for the troubles we have caused." Toyota shares, which have dropped from about 6,500 yen ($56) three months ago, dipped 0.69 percent in Tokyo to close at 5,760 yen ($49).

There have been dozens of past instances in which the originator of a topic has asked for it to be locked. In the majority of cases, if appropriate, it is. I'm not sure exactly how much of the topic you really read, but its clear you didn't read many of the later posts where personal attacks ran rampant on either side of the debate along with veiled threats to call the police, etc. The discussion had run its course with both sides being presented. There was nowhere else for it to go but around again. Yes. We do. We cater to a select group of approximately 2200 registered members who have invested their time, efforts, and in some cases money to this site. We have an obligation to our membership to do what is best for our members. Letting a topic degrade into a tennis match of attacks and conjecture is not in anyone's interest. And here we ago again with your typical Josh accusations and ego trip. I don't understand what your beef is against me personally this time, nor do I really care to figure it out. If you're so unhappy with the state of affairs on this site, you aren't compelled to remain here. Also, I think its below your position as an administrator on TheGMSource to continue making unfounded accusations against myself, other staff members, and C&G as a whole on the C&G site and elsewhere. It doesn't reflect well since you do represent GMS and Halgren's interests. You'd have to discuss Chris Doane's financial situation with Chris Doane.

And the winners are... 1st - American_Revolution_2005 (62pts) 2nd - Yellowjacket8942 (51pts) 3rd - 04MonteIntimidator (26pts) 4th - Burns (22pts) 5th - Network Engineer (13pts) 6th - Burns (12pts) 7th - MRDETROITMETAL (9pts) 8th - Rjbartrop (7pts) 9th(t) - Network Engineer, MRDETROITMETAL (4pts) 10th(t) - Detroitnut, Fuelshopper (3pts) 11th - MDM (2pts) Congratulations to American_Revolution_2005 for his first place finish! Also, congratulations to all and thank you to all who entered. I hope everyone (and more) will check out the Buick LaCrosse competition because there's still nearly two weeks left to get your entries in! There are some great ones there already, so check 'em out and lay down the lead! The 1st-place winner receives a Cadillac-related prize as well as having their concept featured on the Cheers and Gears homepage and Design Showcase! Check out the Showcase for all out past winners. Congrats and thanks again!

Some higher-res versions of those images...

How about some nice shots of the f-in' cars?

It seems we completely neglected the Monte Carlo updates! Deletions (22U) Superior Blue Metallic exterior color (63U) Sport Red Metallic exterior color (74U) Victory Red exterior color 2LT and 3LT equipment groups LTZ model (LZ9) 3.9L 3900 V6 engine New Features (27U) Precision Red exterior color (37U) Imperial Blue Metallic exterior color (71U) Black Amethyst exterior color (80U) Red Jewel Tintcoat exterior color (LZ4) 3.5L 3500 V6SFI gasoline engine (non-E85 compatible) Changes 1LT equipment group has been re-contented

What about the Camryesque theory that you can cover the same sales figure with a single car and make more money from it? That surely can come into play here. Azera is a letdown from something I know you're big on, materials and fit n' finish. Things may look pretty in pictures, but get into a midlevel one...ugh.Also, purely observational, but I've seen about equal numbers of fleeted Lucernes as I have Avalons around here. 500s, fuggedaboutit, Fleet City. As far as the LX twins, dub them Fleetmasters. A handful of Azera rentals, too.

Seriously with these names... Infiniti Studio on Wheels™ Preview Braking ATTESA E-TS

These are the most poorly-named vehicles on the road.

Nope, but I did sit under "The Old Oak Tree"

Wow. This sure has a whole lot to do with the G6.

You need customers in order to satisy them.

I would like to add that generation of Camry was a pile of crap.

You can counter with any offer you'd like, though I'd obviously make it higher than the refused one. Likewise, the seller can refuse it again.

C&G Drives: The 2007 Jeep Compass By Brian Dreggors I could hear the lil' Jeepette screaming, "Drive me!" So I did. Today, I had the opportunity to test drive a fresh-to-the-floor 2007 Jeep Compass. For those unfamiliar, the Compass is Jeep's first foray into the highly-competitive car-based sport utility market, a market characterized by youthful looks, creative design, high utility, and affordability. How does the Compass fare? Let's go! The Basics The Compass that awaited me on the lot was a Bright Silver Metallic Limited 4x4 with 18" alloy wheels. The base MSRP for this trim was listed as $21,180, but the options (including two convenience groups, Boston Acoustics stereo, and CVT) brought the total up to $24,555 on this specific car while apparently lacking only chrome wheels and a sunroof. First Impressions Among the other Jeeps, the Compass stands out due to its more compact dimensions, appearing to be the same size as a Liberty without the height. On the outside, the exterior is a mishmash of styling cues, some of which seem misplaced on a Jeep. Standing out like bad sores are the bulging fascia 'cheeks' jutting out under each headlamp and large, five-sided turn signal housings on the fender corners. This marrs an otherwise cute yet clean frontal appearance of the concept version and stands in stark contrast to the Jeep's unadorned sides. The upswept rear side glass which is quite the rage these days in compact SUVs seems cribbed from the Toyota RAV4 and is equally unattractive in this setting, compromising rear quarter vision from the driver's seat. The pillar-inset rear door handles also belong on a Nissan, not a Jeep. This is probably the most confounding design aspect of the entire car. 18" alloy wheels do not look that large, but are simple and attractive like most Jeep rims. Storing something for winter? Cheek blisters are an unwanted canker on a potentially appealing car. The rear is clean and largely inoffensive. Embossed COMPASS script is accented by the Compass' apparent logo, made up of the O. Cute touch. The smoothy-placed rear wiper inside the glass itself as opposed to the hatch body is also neat. The rubber guard trim atop the bumper is a thoughtful and welcome touch. A tucked away exhaust pipe as was done here should be madatory on all single-piped cars. Welcome Aboard Inside, this Limited is swathed in two-tone leather, which does wonders to break up the overwhelming grayness of the other fixtures. The plastics, though grained, are definitely hard and one would be safe to assume there's not one soft-touch area inside the Compass aside from where you plant your butt. However, for a Jeep, it seems appropriate, especially when combined with washable flooring surface in all models. The silver plastic trim is a nice touch as well. The instrument panel greets you with a nice information center readout in each primary round gauge, informing you of what's ajar and also *gasp* a compass! Silver-ringed with little cardinal direction arrows on the tach and speedometer, its a pleasent visual treat. Controls - like most domestics - are rather straightforward and easy to use. The Compass features satellite radio controls comprised of six buttons (three per side), but mounted on the reverse of the lateral steering wheel spoke. This is actually very ergonomic, yet takes a little getting used to since you literally have to feel your way to learning what the buttons do. Alas, internationalism rears is boring, symmertrical head as the entire dashboard is designed with R/LHD swapability in mind. At least it provides decent storage for the passenger and storage abounds inside the Compass with multiple compartments and cubbies front and back. Like a rock. But its washable to an extent and the seats jazz it up considerably. Quality and fit-n-finish, again, was fine for a vehicle like a Jeep. I did notice some discoloration marks on the front and back of the first-row center console, unusual for a vehicle with 34 miles. The flip-out phone/iPod holder on the console can be useful as well as the standard power outlet on the console front. The Drive Let me get this out of the way first. My daily driver is a 250hp V8 and on occasion I also drive a supercharged 240hp V6, so a lot of cars are 'slow' and 'sluggish' to me. However, the power output of the 2.4l I4 was decidedly adequate for Compass. 172hp may sound potent for a compact car, but for a nearly 3800lb vehicle, you're desiring more. A lot more. And if you're thinking dropping the 4x4 setup will give you an extra second off the quarter mile, think again. According to Jeep, it shaves off a mere 100lbs. That's less than ditching your chick at a drag race. Being used to standard automatics, the actions of the CVT struck me as unusual to say the least. The oft-mentioned 'rubber-banding' of surging forward after prolonged input only to be pulled back afterward as if you dropped down an extra gear was in full effect. The easy-to-use shiftable 6-speed feature made this bearable. The shifting with the CVT is clearly seemless, but with another feeling you have to get used to. Power delivery was a little slow off the line, so don't go cutting off faster-moving vehicles like I did, but at midrange, it was smooth and adequate. Standard 18" alloys on the Limited makes you wonder how bad 16" rims would look Handling was nice and drivability was exteremely carlike, in contrast to Jeep's own Liberty. The suspension performed well over the imperfections and potholes and didn't experience any disconcerting nosedive or taildip on de/acceleration. The seats were very comfortable, even for a stockier guy like myself, and movement wasn't compromised by the Compass' smaller size with plenty of headroom and a comfortable driving position. The steering wheel was a tad small for my tastes, but its clear the driving community disagrees. Visibility all around (save the rear quarters) was excellent. Switching from 2WD to 4WD is easy and effortless, not even requiring a shift to neutral. Simply lift a t-shaped chrome handle on the floor console and volia, you're rollin' on all fours. The sound system didn't get much of a workout, but picked up local stations (even AM) fine and delivered good quality and clarity. The drop-down tailgate unit wasn't specifically tested in this drive. Pricing In terms of value, with a extrodinarily wide range of $15,985 to a hair over $26,000 with every factory option box checked, a happy medium between features and economy can be found, but getting too click-happy can increase the pricetag dramatically. Unfortunately for both Jeep dealers and prospective buyers, Chrysler's first allocation will be well-optioned 4x4 Limiteds, meaning the first look at a Compass will result in a $21-and-change expression. However, the smart shopper would fare well by choosing a 2WD Sport with a few well-chosen options or taking a 2WD Limited at $20,140 and driving away happy. At that price, the Compass is rather well equipped with cruise, PW, PL, leather, and steering wheel controls. Stability/traction control and numerous airbags are standard across the Compass line, as are at least 17" wheels. Whatever Else I Forgot The cargo area impressed me greatly with a lower liftover height than a proper SUV but still plenty of room and a flat load floor. The majority of the cargo deck is comprised of this hard, durable plastic surface that doubles as the spare tire cover. The vinyl tonneu cover was a nice touch, as was the grab handle on the tailgate itself. Gas struts opened the Compass' rear hatch with great ease, but seemed a little heavier for this car's intended customer - females. Large taillamps dominated an uncluttered and clean rear. Sadly, the most visually-appealing angle of the Compass I would like to see a gas hood strut and integrated antenna on this vehicle. Granted, its not a big deal at $16,000, but for the MSRP of this tester, it should be. The flip-down speakers seemed rather flimsily-attached and seemed like something that could break (either the mounting or handle) over prolonged use. An interesting tidbit the salesman told me was that he hoped to sell some of these as tow-behinds for RV owners who like smaller cars like this. However, the 4x4 combined with CVT means that they cannot be towed by two wheels apparently. The Final Word(s) There is much to like about the Compass over its sister Caliber, mainly the cute looks. Face it, Jeep made a chick car, but in doing so managed to give it a more sophisticated and urban look while not subtracting much from its Jeepness. However, the design loses it in the details - the glass treatment, the door handle, and that depressed-highschool-girl-gourging-on-fudge front fascia - and to my eyes, the last part really hurts it. Initital pricing will also hurt the Compass and hurt more than it did the Pacifica because this is an entry-level car. The pricing itself could stand to lose a few dollars just as much as the car itself could stand losing a few hundred pounds. You can feel the extra girth with the 4-cyl. However, I will give it a C+ average. The Jeep aura can only go so much. Drop the price and it'll earn a B. Restyle it with a bit more power and give it an A. Links Offical Jeep Compass Website More Pictures!

The prices all-around are too high.

[Grande rant] This list is more Forbes bull$h!. Congratulations, assholes, anyone with access to a computer can do the same thing. Don't make it sound like you're locating Atlantis. Consumer Reports predicts the Dodge Sprinter has the worst depreciation? Who the f@#k cares? Its a fleet vehicle companies buy to do work (you know that word, Forbes editors - work? Its something you obviously don't do behind a desk), not to trade in every three years when the new Sprinter comes out with different 15" steel wheels. Consumer Reports predicts the Crown Vic has the worst depreciation? Who the f@#k cares? Its a fleet vehicle mainly sold to livery companies and police agencies. You think any of them are worried about how much they're worth in five years. Take a guess - NOTHING! First, its a f@#king government vehicle, so its all a writeoff anyway. Second, many of Vics out there are f@#ked up after their usage anyway. Let me check my Kelley Blue Book...hmmm Heavy Duty Suspension - add $200...Broken Heavy Duty Suspension - subtract $2000...Excessive Mileage - subtract $1500. How much is a cab worth? And where oh where can you find a retail Crown Victoria? The largest Ford dealership on the west coast of Florida has four...FOUR. Consumer Reports predicts the Grand Marquis has the worst depreciation? Who the f@#k cares? Does Consumer Reports realize the vast majority of Grand Marquis buyers trade them in on another Grand Marquis? Older folks usually purchase instead of lease anyway, and for many this is their last car. When you're dead, one of the last things you care about is how much your five year-old Mercury is worth. Does Forbes realize 'Worst' has a quantitative value of ONE? How can four cars simultaneously be the worst? How about 'among the worst'? Nice writing skills. In any case, how does simply have poor price retention make a car completely bad? Answer - it doesn't. You go out to lunch with friends or coworkers. They say, "Oh, you've driven alot lately. Let me drive. Besides, I want to show you my new car!" You stroll out to the parking lot and its a shiny 2006 Econoline. How often has that happened? Why? Because an Econoline is not typically a single-occupant vehicle. You know what's less envrionmentally-friendly than an Econoline? A transit bus and a Mack truck. But you can fit 40 people on a transit bus and you can haul a $h!load with a Mack truck, so it sort of balances out the 8mpg. Guess what? Same deal when you fit 15 people into an Econoline to go to the airport Marriott or carry a crapload of boxes. And here's some math, Forbes, which is better...? A 13mpg Econoline with 14 passengers driving 30 miles -or- 12 Priuses with one occupant each driving 30 miles. You can borrow my Casio for that one. Again, 'least' indicates 'one.' And is it really necessary to show four pictures of the same van? Also, Consumer Reports, which generally avoids opinionated reviews, complains on its Web site . HAHAHAHAH. CR avoids opinions? Bull$h!. Get out and read more, Forbes.com. Least satisfying? What the f@#k kind of unsubstantiated esoteric bull$h! is this? That's it. This is just too much crap. [/Grande rant]

I thought Harry drove a Maxx...?

No one is denying that the Malibu is a good car. It certainly is economical with good power, a decent interior, reliable, good build quality, highly configurable, and a good value. Unfotunately, that's about all it is - a good car, not a great one, and the driving force in getting people to purchase a Malibu is typically that its a good deal. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you're aiming for, but Chevrolet doesn't need to have the same vision as Kia, Hyundai, and Toyota. Chevrolet needs to be something more. Values like the Malibu and Impala get people to buy, but stylish and appealing values get people to trade their non-GMs in.

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