Flybrian

What if this thread were started by Ocn? What if this thread were started by Reg?

Fact is, you can rent anything if you really want to, but the number of import fleet cars is indeed stunning when you consider pundits always cite domestics as fleet-dump criminals. Sonata averages near 49-51% rental (not corporate) fleet. I remember a time when Mitsubishi dumped ~40-45% of its inventory into fleets. It showed, too. Badly. I see more Avalons as rentals than LaCrosse/Lucerne rentals combined around here. Interestingly, the last time I rented, there were three Suzuki Forenzas next to two Altimas, a Murano, a G6, and a DTS in front of the neighborhood Enterprise.

My friend has an '06 9-3 Aero that's had several problems already, luckily handled under warranty. These are boutique cars and you really have to love them.

Please don't make this a social issue.

Inspired by his wife's Element, Larry turned his car into a similarly-effective food storage container.

Ahh, a local girl...

A CTX (crossover) would make more marketable sense than a CTS wagon, though I would rather have a wagon myself.

No deadline. Order whenever. These'll be for sale all year, but, you know...get the most of your calendar.

Congratulations, take plenty of pictures, and most importantly have fun!

Have fun waiting for the jaws of life to cut you out of your mangled wreck.

Honestly, I don't see how anyone can say the Corvette is overrated. It doesn't cure cancer but does virtually everything else other high-end performance cars do...for less. And as far as being overrated, some of it is the manufacturer, but most of it is the press. As said, the Sonata was Hyundai's turnaround showcase and Titan was supposed to be the second coming of Christ. Well...we see how that goes.

Heh. I remember hearing rave reviews about how smooth and economical the CVT in the Murano was. 17 mpg vs. 20 mpg & sluggish vs. smooth. Guess which one was the Murano and which was my 4spd V8 Olds.

I suppose so. And I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but that doesn't belong in a review like that, IMO. It unbalances the scoring and produces false results. It doesn't matter how far you've come; its about how good the car is now. You don't get an 'A' for effort. How many people break out the scoring like we do or even look at that chart? How many just look at the ranking and say, "Kia did better than Saturn." But I digress and agree that with Saturn, the best is definitely yet to come.

The investment necessary to provide livery companies with the truck-like frames they need will not see a return. Ford only makes a business case from it because they didn't ditch the Panther chassis. The ship sailed for GM in 1996. Its over. How about moving on with a line of relevant vehicles people will pay full price for?

Because the Chrysler Group doesn't have enough money to bribe anybody.

Nope. I don't know what kind of numbers you're expecting in this market, but the DeVille posts very impressive figures considering all the variables. The only tangible boost you would've seen would be in the coachbuilder field, a low-margin, low-profit market that merely does a slice-n-dice on the cheapest base model they can buy to create a disgusting prom night special. Cadillac doesn't need to whore itself out to these rolling monstrosities, rather make an honest executive sedan like the DTS-L they're making now. Also, even in the livery business, the Escalade and H2 are quite popular.And here's the real point - it doesn't matter now. GM couldn't do it if they tried because the tooling is gone and any future sedan product will be unibody.

The last Sedona was rather junky, warranty or not. Plus, Kia dealerships aren't the most pleasent places, Sound of Music not withstanding. Apparently, the biggest thing standing in the way of a CSV is its ugliness. Well, honestly, too bad. For the criteria you specified, a CSV would fit the bill perfectly. They're dirt cheap, rather safe, and ride very well. They're also not quite as big or heavy as other vans in the segment. 2006 Uplander | 5100mi | $14,995 2006 Montana SV6 | 6430mi | $15,444 I would personally seriously consider these if I had the need for a van. Again, the price is unbeatable. A second non-GM choice would be the Freestyle. These are really good vehicles, better than a minivan if you don't care about sliding doors. Plus, plenty of space behind the rear seats.

You'd be dead, then.The Fleetwood in its last years was a nice car but sorely lacked the technological innovation expected from not only any luxury car, especially a Cadillac. The DeVille had/has it in spades, hence why it outsells its throughly-mediocre competitor, the Town Car, and still has a respectable following. I think simply making the DTS rear-wheel drive and offering a larger portfolio of luxury options in both DTS and DTS-L trims would go alot further than trying to improve the STS, which is a great car by itself...unfortunately, its not by itself.

I think the concensus is similar to my view that the subjective categories gave the mediocre (or below?) Optima far too much credit. Who can honestly look at the Kia and give it a 'Gotta Have It' factor above anything else there?

This car looks like it has crap for rear headroom?

Inside Analysis Cadillac CTS family could be 3-series fighters By DAVID SEDGWICK | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS AutoWeek | Published 12/26/06, 7:56 am et Link to Original Article @ AutoWeek DETROIT -- The Cadillac CTS sedan may be about to start a family. General Motors insiders say Cadillac is seriously considering a plan to create a family of CTS sedans, coupes and wagons that would emulate BMW's 3-series lineup. Mock-ups of a wagon and coupe already lurk inside GM's design studio in suburban Detroit. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll ever go into production. But GM executives clearly have spotted an opportunity to create a CTS minibrand within Cadillac. The sedan would remain the centerpiece of a CTS family, generating the bulk of total sales. And GM is prepared to brag about it. The redesigned sedan - which sports a new interior and a grille reminiscent of the Cadillac Sixteen concept - will debut during the Detroit auto show in January. Niche strategy With sales of 50,024 units through November, the CTS sedan has a secure market niche. Because the wagon and coupe would share mechanicals with the sedan, Cadillac can make money if those new models generate sales of 20,000 units apiece. That's where Cadillac's European strategy could prove useful. Most Americans supposedly don't care for wagons - but Europeans do. If Cadillac can sell a couple of thousand CTS wagons in Europe, it would help reach the wagon's breakeven point. If GM goes ahead with this strategy, expect the CTS family to be $30,000 to $40,000. That would target the fattest portion of the U.S. luxury market - a segment that generates annual sales of 1 million units. Here's how the rest of Cadillac's lineup would fit the brand's strategy: Stop dreaming about a production version of the Cadillac Sixteen. That concept car drew rave reviews, but a production version would cost a couple of hundred thousand dollars. The Mercedes Maybach and the Rolls-Royce Phantom have demonstrated just how small that segment is. Forget about an uber sedan that could challenge the Mercedes S class. Volkswagen's Phaeton flop-aroo has demonstrated the risks of moving upscale too quickly. Cadillac executives think they could pull it off. But product development is costly, and GM is trying to conserve resources. An S-class competitor simply isn't a priority. In fact, Cadillac's flagship car is actually a truck: the Escalade. The Escalade still has room to move upscale with new powertrains and interiors. Stay tuned. Cadillac needs only one $50,000 sedan, not two. We are told that Cadillac executives might dump either the STS or the DTS sedan. The $40,000-to-$50,000 price segment generates industry sales of 300,000 units. In a segment of that size, Cadillac's old something-for-everyone strategy is obsolete. Customers don't walk into a Cadillac showroom asking for "traditional American luxury" or "European-style performance." Says one executive: "They just want a nice car." But here's the problem: The front-wheel-drive DTS handily outsells the rear-wheel-drive STS. But traditional DTS buyers are dying off, and Cadillac wants to promote rwd performance. What about the SRX and the XLR roadster? Cadillac needs a crossover, so the SRX has a future. The roadster seems expendable. But the XLR shares mechanicals with the Corvette, so it is not hugely expensive. I'll leave it to the buff magazines to track the roadster's future. The bottom line: GM executives are convinced that Cadillac can attract younger buyers, that the CTS lineup can expand and that the brand can afford to get sassier. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if tail fins reappear someday.

I regret knowing pretty much all of you, but especially Satty, but especially Ven.

Its not a 'car' in the sense of a sedan, which is obviously the most popular style of car in the US. I understand what CARBIZ is getting at, that the Caliber suffers when people come into a Dodge dealership looking for a compact Neon but instead find a small-sized wagon. Some people just want a car. Remember also that the Magnum was supposed to supplant the Intrepid completely before dealers balked. Imagine what a poor decision that would've been. Also, take into account the Caliber is about 400lbs heavier than the Neon was and gets worse fuel economy.