Oracle of Delphi

Not at all.

Pull the troops out and then NUKE the Bastards!

Europeans would not be inclined to buy a V8, with gasoline over 8 Euros a gallon and in some places even higher, that would not be a car a European would choose and would just give them more reason to hate American cars. In many respects, Europeans act like Greenies. So IMHO, GM is doing the right thing in Europe!

I hope you feel better. I lost all 4 of mine when I was 17, that was 22 years ago, I remember it like it was yesterday!

You can find this plan on www.notinthislifetime.com! :rotflmao:

Market valuations for GM, Ford skid as fears accelerate Fri, July 11, 2008 Shares of General Motors Corp. slid to another record low yesterday, as speculation swirled about the financial viability of U.S.-based automakers and a possible bankruptcy filing at GM. GM shares fell 64 cents, or 6.2 per cent, to close at $9.69, after tumbling to $9.32 earlier, passing Monday's five-decade low by 60 cents. Yesterday's low marked the Detroit-based automaker's lowest share price since July 2, 1954, when its stock dropped to $9.15, according to the Center for Research in Security Prices in Chicago. The price is adjusted for splits and other changes. Carl-Peter Forster, president of GM Europe, called rumours that the automaker is near bankruptcy "baseless." But Forster acknowledged the automaker must restructure its U.S.-businesses in the next 18 months. GM chief executive Rick Wagoner also dismissed the speculation, saying at a lunch meeting of Dallas business leaders that comments in the past week about a potential bankruptcy are "not at all constructive or accurate." Forster also said that while GM is discussing the sale of its gas-guzzling Hummer brand, reports about other brands being up for sale are pure speculation. Mark LaNeve, GM's vice president of North American sales, also denied reports that the automaker is looking into the possible sale of other brands in a memo to GM dealers this week. GM's shares have taken a beating this year, as soaring gas prices drove U.S. consumers away from its sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks in favour of more fuel efficient cars and crossovers. Since the beginning of the year, GM shares have fallen nearly 60 per cent. In the last 12 months, GM shares have lost about 72 per cent. Shares of Ford Motor Co. also tumbled yesterday, falling 37 cents, or 7.5 per cent, to close at $4.58, after dropping as low as $4.47 earlier. The Dearborn, Mich.-based company's shares dropped to a multi-decade low of $4.30 on July 3. Citi's Itay Michaeli said that both GM and Ford, along with privately held Chrysler LLC, will need significant cash as they face one of the most severe downturns in their industry's history. Michaeli said that while a bankruptcy filing at one of the Detroit-based automakers could happen, it's more likely they would try to work out their financial problems outside of court. Link: http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Business/2008/...126896-sun.html

For those who would like to know more about the Holden Sportwagon. By JAMES STANFORD 11 July 2008 PRIVATE customers are the prime target for the sleek new Holden Sportwagon, which goes on sale nationally from next week. Fleets accounted for 90 per of the previous Commodore wagon sales, but Holden is determined to spread the appeal of the new wagon beyond company car barriers. Holden spent $105 million on the new Sportwagon over and above the $1.03 billion it laid down for the VE Commodore program and officially calls it the VE Sportwagon, although the Commodore badge is still present on the boot. It designed a smaller, more attractive and, as the name suggests, sporty car than the VZ Commodore wagon that was phased-out towards the end of last year. Previous Commodore wagons were based on the long-wheelbase platform, which gave the cars a massive cargo area, but also brought disadvantages like handling trade-offs and made them harder to park. The new Sportwagon is built on the same platform as the Commodore sedan. In fact, the wheelbase has even reduced slightly, from 2939mm to 2915mm, while the track is wider by 43mm at the front and 31mm at the back. It is 4897mm long, making it 136mm shorter than the previous model, but is 53mm wider at 1899mm. The attractive Sportwagon has a sloping tail that looks more like a hatchback than a traditional wagon and the cargo space has been reduced as a result. With the rear seats in place, the Sportwagon has a bootspace of only 895 litres compared to the whopping 1402 litres for the previous model. When the rear seats are folded down, the Sportwagon can carry 2000 litres of gear versus 2752 litres for the VZ. GM Holden sales and marketing manager Alan Batey said existing fleet customers are not worried about the reduced cargo space. “We’ve had a lot of fleet customers in over the last 12 months and taken them through the car individually because obviously they need to be able to carry what they need to carry,” said Mr Batey. “They have no issues with the car. They love the rear tailgate from an accessibility point of view and the users (user-choosers) just look at it and say they want to drive it.” Chief designer Richard Ferlazzo said the Sportwagon still had a large amount of useable space and added that both the old Commodore wagon and the existing Ford Falcon wagon were bigger than required. “The Falcon and Commodore wagon are the largest kind of (car-based) wagon in the world, no-one else builds them that big,” he said. “They had their place, but they were designed in the 1990s and the world has moved on.” Unlike the previous Commodore wagon, the Sportwagon is purely a five-seater and there is no seven-seat option. Holden says that customers requiring seven seats can opt for a Captiva SUV instead. While fleets are still expected to make up a large proportion of Sportwagon sales, Holden is not offering an LPG option with the new model. Holden hopes that the improved handling and attractiveness of the Sportwagon will win over SUV customers. Despite selling around 1000 Captiva SUVs a month, Holden will have a crack at that style of vehicle with an advertising campaign that suggests SUVs are “so 1994”. The new Sportwagon represents a $1000 premium over a comparable VE Commodore model, whereas the VZ wagon carried a $2000 premium. The specification of the Sportwagon models is identical to the equivalent sedans, but all Sportwagon models gain rear parking sensors as standard. While Holden only offered the VZ in three model grades, the Sportwagon is available in seven model guises, from Omega to Calais V V8. There is even an SS manual. The front half of the Sportwagon is the same as the sedan, with the rear doors, roof and tail section being unique. In all, there are 72 wagon-specific parts. The tail-lights may look like those from the Holden Ute, but they are a slightly different shape, and those on the SS and SV6 are slightly darker than other Sportwagon models. Rear headroom is greater than in the sedan and the Sportwagon has more knee and legroom than the VZ wagon, despite the shorter wheelbase. Holden says access to the boot is aided by a tailgate hinge point that is much further forward, requiring less space (apparently just 268mm) behind the vehicle to open the hatch. A cargo blind, which can be vertically adjusted, comes standard, along with two shopping bag hooks, a 12-volt power outlet and a low-mounted light that casts light on the area even when the cargo blind is in place. Of course, the Sportwagon use the same powertrains as the sedan equivalents, but there is a fuel economy penalty because they are around 90kg heavier. The Omega and Berlina use an average of 11.1L/100km, the SV6, Calais V6 and Calais V V6 use 11.3L/100km, the SS auto, SSV auto and Calais V V8 auto use 13.8L/100km and the manual SS and manual SSV use 14.4L/100km. All models use the ‘FE1’ suspension while the SS and SSV have the firmer ‘FE2’ set-up. Holden engineers have tweaked the rear suspension, modifying spring rates to cope with the extra weight and fitting three cross axle ball-joints instead of two for improved toe link stiffness to help prevent oversteer. Holden had plenty of time to test these settings, with engineers notching up 513,000km of wagon-specific testing in an 18-month period using 60 test cars. They also carried out 1500 virtual barrier tests and four real-life barrier tests to ensure the safety of the wagon matched the sedan. Like the sedan, the Sportwagon comes standard with electronic stability control and front, side and curtain airbags. Holden VE Sportwagon range pricing: Omega $37,790 Berlina $41,290 SV6 $42,290 SS $46,290 SS (a) $48,290 SS V $53,790 SS V (a) $55,790 Calais $46,790 Calais V V6 (a) $55,290 Calais V V8 (a) $60,290 Link to article with pictures: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf...A25748300088E64

Pssst, Chevrolet will also launch a station wagon version of the Cruze, for those of you that have been pinning for a wagon, like oldsmoboi has been doing of late.

What you don't understand is that decisions have already been made, you can't negotiate your way out of that, just ask the CAW in Oshawa. Anyway, I'm sure y'all will figure it out on your own. I have more pleasant things to attend to. I wish you all a fond adieu.

The power was fought for, not grabbed, no Jedi Mind Tricks were used to get said power, what you're experiencing now is the consolidation and execution of that power.

It's called Alpha! :AH-HA_wink:

Where was that mix when you and your kind wanted to change Pontiac into an all RWD performance brand, kicking people like me out of Pontiac altogether. People who have been loyal to Pontiac since they were 10 years old. Sorry, but I have no sympathy now.

And you don't? :AH-HA_wink: Post your numbers, it won't change one darn thing.

My boss is but one man, GM is going after the biggest market now, which no longer wants big RWD vehicles with tons of horespower. The world has changed again Camino, just like it did in 1974.

And what about buyers like me, who had 12 new Pontiacs in 10 years and will not even buy one now, surely that evens out the playing field, my purchasing power should equal about 6 of a normal buyer. It makes me think your numbers are skewed.

The civil war has been going on since I 1st washed up on the beach of C&G, where you been at Willis?

Well friend may have been to strong a word, how about we change it to acquaintance then. :AH-HA_wink:

Well it's like I've said, internally the Zeta platform and those that have supported it, have made many, many enemies along the way, but it seems more and more chickens are coming home to roost. The shoe is on the other foot now.

Now that's not nice, you need every friend you have at GM these days. :AH-HA_wink:

Oh it's not a bean counter that wants the Camaro dead, this person is a car guy. Zeta will soon be among the dinosaurs when he has his way. True the Fat Lady hasn't sung yet, but she's standing at the mic, with her new gold sparkly dress on and has just spritzed her throat, and is warming up with a rousing chorus of Doh Ray Me Fa.

How can you tally, when most people say, maybe someday, or if I get a job, or maybe when I hit the lottery, or not likely, who knows, etc.?

I only have one, Mr. Burns!

Zeta Chevy (GMX551) and Buick (GMX553) are dead, planned DTS (GMX556) replacement soon will be, doubt you will see a Zeta coupe or wagon in North America. Link: http://www3.sympatico.ca/tedkrygier/future.htm Thanks Ted, I see you have been keeping up!

So they can build cabs and taxis? What's next airport rentals? I would be willing to send them all to fleet. :rotflmao:

The plant is almost at capacity, should GM build cabs and not the G8 ST.