wildcat

Buickman, staying with product, how about the improvements in GM's interiors? AFTERTHOUGHT EDIT: And value pricing.

Well, I see product, the public's perception of GM, and the UAW contract as the three major problems. I'll take a brief stab at the former. Mr. Wagoner has given Bob Lutz, a so-called "car guy," the responsibility and authority to strengthen their product portfolio on a global basis. In the U.S., they know that it takes more money than they have to keep eight brands thriving, so GM identified Chevrolet and Cadillac as full-line bookends. For the others, they used Opel and Holden to help create new line-ups. No makes were cut, but overlap is being eliminated. Mr. Wagoner said they had to put the money where they had momentum. Given the extreme competition in the marketplace, how could that be better? In the last year, GM has resisted slapping huge incentives on cars, looking at sales and residual values in the long-term. Also, GM has cadenced various new, strong products throughout all their brands, including the Escalade et al., the 900 trucks, new Saturns, and the Lambda crossovers, to then be followed by global RWD including Camaro and a new Impala and new Lucerne (Statesman) and Epsilon II. Meanwhile, GM is doing great in China, and I'm proud to say Buick is #1 there, and GM is presently attempting a stronger presence in Europe with the Cadillac BLS. Product is coming back in a big way, perhaps not fast enough for everyone, but, clearly, GM has people excited with the Camaro and other future vehicles.

Buickman: I'm quite serious because there are two sides to every story, and we've heard about your plan over and over, ad nauseum. People have questioned you or challenged your statements, but you typically ignore their questions or don't fully respond. Just since June 27th, you've started no fewer than six threads in "General Motors News" alone, and they're all negative. To balance those, I think it's about time for some praise of Rick Wagoner and an appreciation for what he has done right. Mr. Wagoner remains in a very tough spot, and I hope that this present assault by Jerry York won't derail the progress GM is making under Mr. Wagoner's leadership. Mr. DeLorenzo's words, expressed in light of York's proposal, no doubt carry some weight (much more than my individual opinion would), so I quoted him.

No, this certainly isn't another "Red-Ink" Rick diatribe. Buickman has done enough of those. Instead, some praise of Rick Wagoner from Peter DeLorenzo, for things Wagoner is doing right. Let's make sure that, in the midst of daily challenges to GM and the American auto industry, including the latest proposal from Jerry York, we don't forget the things which are right about GM. It is excerpted from the autoextremist.com website: " . . . I have to give Rick his due, he is focused on engineering a turnaround in the 'right' way - and I see real, demonstrative progress. When I say the 'right' way, I mean that Rick Wagoner has always tried to take into account the constituencies involved and those who are inexorably invested in the future of GM. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people - generations of families - who have made their livelihoods working for General Motors. And the challenges facing GM in health care costs, pensions and global competitiveness are challenges facing corporate America and our nation as a whole. Rick and his team are trying to do what's right for everyone involved the right way. There are no shortcuts or instant fixes available. It's a gradual and more often than not an excruciatingly painful progress."

BigPontiac: That was nice of you to try to get some pictures for C&G. If the LaCrosse Super is there, you could go back ( @$10 a pop for parking ) -- even without a camera -- just to see it and then describe it to us.

For what reason do they prohibit cameras? Around the vehicle display? (Is the LaCrosse Super there?) Or around the golfers? Or both?

I believe that every human being deserves respect and dignity, regardless of any other factor including whether or not I agree with them.

Loki: You made some good points. And I can picture that '83 Regal wagon. I once had an '83 Electra Estate, and boy did I like that car! Thanks for writing, and sharing what you sent. P.S. They posted my message today - Mr. Shannon: I'd like to urge you to please write about Buick's exciting PRODUCTS, not about Tiger Woods and golf. And if you have nothing to write, come up with some exciting products like a small Buick premium crossover or a Buick halo vehicle. Use Buick's heritage (such as great model names including Wildcat) to your advantage, don't forget them! I want to spend some money with Buick soon in the next few years. What have you got to excite me? Stir up my Buick loyalty with a halo vehicle. At least TALK about Buick's future, please. (The Fastlane Blog, as well as various print articles in Automotive news and elsewhere, have discussed the futures for just about every GM make EXCEPT Buick!) The Lucerne may be nice, but it needs more pizzazz. If Buick is niche and premium, just offer the CXS, no base variations. The Enclave is a step or two closer to what a Buick should be, but might you offer something smaller? Not all Buick purchasers care about golf and, if it needs be said, not all (not me!) are over 50 or 55 or 60 or whatever the accepted thinking is. So let's talk future Buick VEHICLES! P.S. - If you need some design ideas, a number of young people on the website cheersandgears.com have, over the last several years, posted better Buick designs than I've seen come out of GM itself. Thank you. Posted by: wildcat at June 26, 2006 05:17 PM

An open letter to the C&G community: (Do I really need to write this? Evidently so.) If this website is to be taken seriously, then we need to discuss ideas, not personalities; present facts, not ridicule; and try to encourage, respect, tolerate, and understand others' viewpoints. We share an enthusiasm for cars, so let's stand together with that common interest. Posters have every right and opportunity to disagree with someone else, but it isn't necessary to mock or vilify anyone or to cheapen their accomplishments! Or you have the right of ignoring someone's post. [ Refer to the "Employee Discount" thread under "General Motors News" for a number of the latest examples of what I, for one, consider rude and inappropriate behavior. ] I'm very open-minded, have a sense of humor, and am not a prude. But I'm ashamed of much of others' treatment of Josh and Buickman. Does it make you feel superior to tear someone else down? Are we mature adults or ill-mannered children? Let's all take the higher ground, because to allow anything less than that is much more offensive than cursing. Sincerely, - wildcat

Yes, and despite those incongruities, the Buick Rendezvous sold well and helped to reduce the average age of Buick buyers. Hopefully, GM will show us that they did learn from the GTO, and the Buick Statesman (probably still called Lucerne) will be everything a Buick flagship should be.

buickman: Aw, Jim, let's leave Wagoner out of this discussion, at least, and talk about Buicks! Spy photos of the production Enclave appear to show that very little has been changed, maybe just the tire size on the exterior. Isn't that a plus? Lutz is trying to get Buick a full-size RWD sedan by using the Holden Statesman. Isn't that a plus? I'd be the first to point at GM and say they caused any problems with sales at Buick; they are the ones who damaged it. But isn't it another plus that they combined it with Pontiac and GMC, to help prop it up now when it needs it? Isn't it also a plus that a NG LaCrosse is being planned on Epsilon II, a modern architecture that has the potential of an AWD option for a Buick passenger car? Let's accentuate the positive! EDIT: And the outside mirrors on the production Enclave are different.

On NBC channel 5 in Chicago, they just again showed that TV commercial that says "What's on the Pontiac hotlist?" and suggests that people "Google" Pontiac. Yeah, Oldsmoboi, your idea is m-u-c-h better!

buickman: Thank you for your time and responses. I agree, as a Buick fan, I'd definitely like to see exciting design. I'm not an insider who can quote facts and figures and data, I'm not a guy who pays attention to 0 to 60 times, I'm not a mechanic who can repair his own car, I'm not a person who can chop a car using Photoshop or a similar program; but I am a loyal Buick owner who wants to continue being a customer. Without the customer, the company would be out of business and all the other types would have nothing to talk about. Yes, the thing that gets me excited is design, because I am someone who enjoys looking at the car and sitting in the car and driving the car and admiring the car in the driveway. How much of a step in the right direction of design do you think the Buick Enclave is? Do you think Buick design has gotten better, starting with the Velite concept and Lucerne? Wouldn't you say Buick could design a beautiful car, if given the freedom? Didn't the LaCrosse concept show that? Won't Lutz keep the beancounters at bay in the future? Don't you think the Statesman will give Buick the full-size RWD sedan as you said it needs? Do you accept why GM felt it was necessary to combine Buick with Pontiac and GMC? Isn't that a palatable alternative to Buick being cut? Had you heard the figure of an average of 4 Buicks sold per dealer in a 30-day period?

buickman: Thank you, Jim. As I say, I know the average person like myself can learn some things from your expertise and experience. I can't imagine that customers in Buick showrooms come in spouting off about Rick Wagoner but you could share what they do say, if there's any consensus. Here's what one more question: as one of the top Buick salesman of all, how did you feel when a figure was quoted that the average Buick dealer sold just 4 vehicles during a 30-day period a few months back? That has got to be death, and so I'm relieved that GM is giving Buick anything and keeping it around. I hope that figure was either wrong or will change quickly. So tell us, as a Buick salesman, besides your "Return to Greatness" steps, what as far as products should Buick be doing, now that it's combined with Pontiac and GMC? What, specifically for Buick, would you suggest? What will turn around the perception about Buicks?

President? Isn't his title "General Manager"? What comment(s) did you send to him? EDIT: Don't know if they'll use them, but I just sent Mr. Shannon a plea to talk about Buick's future products, rather than Tiger Woods and golf. Each of the four or five posters whose messages were already there at this writing made good points, particularly "Edward Hayes" and "JG." I urge fellow Buick fans to make your thoughts known to Mr. Shannon via the FYI Blog.

evok: That's just what I asked buickman, in one of a number of questions above to him. What vehicle would be most important for Buick dealers to add? Surely not a Bengal, the vehicle he identified when he started off this whole thread! buickman: Jim, You seem to enjoy firing a few volleys to stir up discussion and I know you post to more than one list. But I happened to notice that you were online here earlier, reading these comments - yet you didn't make even a single reply. Please interact and respond to our questions and comments! Don't you enjoy give and take? I think we can learn things from you, as a successful Buick salesman. For instance, what do you hear from Buick customers or Buick wanna-bes? What Buick vehicle(s) are they asking for? Convertible? Small crossover? Traditional wagon? Performance model? What are people who come into Buick showrooms saying? What do they say they are looking for?

The two guys who live in the penthouse in the building where I live have a silver Sky convertible. And when the man from the AAA came to jump my car, he asked what that was. I told him a Saturn Sky, and he said it looks like a Corvette and that he'd have to go by the Saturn dealership to see one.

Sounds at least as good (if not better than) theirs! Or how 'bout: [ while small, tight images of parts of the car flash ] "We'd like to show you the new Pontiac G6 convertible, but they're all sold out for 2006. Take that, ( fill in whatever make of competitor you'd like )."

Evok: Thank you.

buickman: Also, as evok put it so well elsewhere on this board, it's not that GM has starved Buick of product (Rendezvous, LaCrosse, Terraza, Lucerne, Enclave), it's that -- until the latter two -- it hasn't been particularly compelling or competitive or class-leading (however you want to say it) product. And the segment that GM seems to traditionally keep Buick in (i.e., large 4-door sedans) isn't growing, it's in steep decline. So what's left? GM has to combine Buick and Pontiac and GMC together, rather than support each as three fullines. The economic and competitive circumstances dictate it! But trust me, there isn't anybody hoping more for future drop-dead, gorgeous, stylish, powerful, smooth, quiet, roomy Buick vehicles than me! evok: Is a Theta Buick crossover still on for '09? It had a GMT program code assigned, so does it remain a possibility?

ehaase: Fine, hope so. Chevy can have the Statesman as-is, with Chevy badging, for its Caprice. buickman: I seem to recall that when "Dream Up" was chosen as the Buick slogan in 2004, they said they'd keep it a minimum of 5 years! Do you feel that "Beyond Precision" is a better tagline? Was "One Better" actually used, or was it suggested by someone here? Much as I personally like "Wouldn't You Really Rather Have a Buick?" (and it does seem to play well for someone who'd prefer a rebadge as a Buick), don't you think it's out-of-date for 2006? And as far as vehicles, if GM is strapped for cash, you don't honestly think the vehicle Buick needs most is the Bengal, do you? A halo vehicle, yes! A Bengal? No!

CD/BP: Thank you!

Because GM lets things slide, that's one reason I'm worried that the Statesman will be rebadged as-is, with the "Buick grille" and portholes, as a Buick. Please, GM, use the design language of Buicks... and even take it one step farther!

BuddyP: On behalf of all C&G'ers, thanks! This vehicle couldn't possibly be the Chevrolet version of the Lambda, could it? Those tailights seem very round, like Chevy's trademark lamps. As a typo -- or was it? -- elsewhere stated, "2008 Chevrolet Acadia"?

What pressure does the Buick dealer council put on GM for products, or is their influence greatly diminished with the channeling of B-P-G? What product do you think Buick dealers are saying they need most for GM to build? A revised version of something they already offer, or a new vehicle in a different segment?