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I think the 2.8 CTS only serves 2 purposes 1. It allows Caddy to lower the asking price fully knowing most dealers won't stock it and most buyers will opt for the 3.6. 2. It would actually be a decently powered engine in Europe and some countries tax on displacement.

Since it seems thegriffon is a little high by his last post. I will guess take the costs out a little more. VE would need a new plant and assembly method making it more expensive to start up. Take some cost out and produce some more profit per car and it becomes doable, without it expect a 10 year run with little changes to recoup the lost capital.

Ok Charlie let me throw this out. What if you used Sigma unibody parts along with Kappa suspension components? That would yeild a unibody that was already capable of larger cars than Kappa AND it would share parts between 2 already devloped chassis. Could this be Sigma lite afterall? Hudson thanks for throwing this out there it may be a wrench in the logic I made but it may be an important wrench.

Yeah kinda confusing. :blink:

I live in Louisville and have never heard of a GM facility here. The only truck type plant I have heard of is a semi trailer manufacturer that is litterally within U of L's campus. Where is this being built? BTW I found out that Cummins was started in Louisville, KY the other day. My mother-in-law knew the owner's daughter shortly before the family sold it.

Good read. He is seeing it in much the same way I am. I seriously think that Toyota will be checked by Hyundai in the long run. I am sure we will see it end up as Toyota, Hyundai, and GM as the largest world shareholders, what happens afterthat I don't know. I am sure that the Chinese auto industry will grow although how much and how many players it will have will be interesting. Maybe a developing African country will develop a car culture and then they will surpass China as the latest booming market.

Hudson when you say models do you mean concepts or produciton cars?

Essentially EVERYTHING that you just posted as GM having on their plate is speculatin because GM didn't announce it. BTW Nobody will confirm if what I have said is true because to do so would put them under the eye of the General and might expose some of their sources. All the things I posted are speculatory at the moment, that doesn't mean they don't fit the puzzle. BTW Guy has said previously where he gets a lot of his info and there is good reason why he is rarely wrong, he doesn't post something until he hears it from multiple sources.

Phil you are right about details not being known BUT GM has finalized its plans through 2009 by now. That means its RWD plans are buttoned down and will be here before you know it, car year 2009 is calendar year 2008, only 2 years away. Malibu is all but confirmed by GM to get bigger. Epsilon II will be capable of larger cars and Malibu will be one of them. The 2.2 and 2.4 Ecotec can move the current Epsilons perfectly fine, should it get DI by 2008 along with the mild hybrid system it will get out of its own way with no problem, don't forget the next Malibu will have the 6 speed auto. The W-body is dead the question is what will happen to Impala. I personally can see another nameplate, Chevelle or Monte Carlo being used on the Sigma lite sedan. I also could see a larger RWD/AWD sedan bearing the Impala name coming later with the current car living till like 2010 or so. IF GM decides to move Impala to RWD the Malibu will have to be able to appeal to a larger portion of the population and cover a larger market.

The general consensus on CZ28 is that the Z/28 will be a Z06 type of top model and will come 18 months after production starts on the regular cars.

I don't know I am just repeating what I read.

I don't think that VE and Sigma lite need be close in size. Remember Holden designed VE to fit their market, their biggest seller is the LWB V-cars, Commedore class but they also sell Large Luxury cars (Statesman/Caprice). Sigma also comes in 2 sizes the RWD, CTS, and AWD, SRX/STS, sizes. If Sigma lite were based a little on both Sigmas you could end up with a relatively GTO sized car easliy. It could have the CTS length and STS size width giving you the following dimensions: 190" length and 72.6" width it would weigh between 3500(CTS) and 3960(STS). Now compared to the following chart you can see how that would rank in size to curren models. CTS Length: 190.1 in. Width: 70.6 in. Height: 56.7 in. Wheel Base: 113.4 in. Ground Clearance: 5.9 in. Curb Weight: 3509 lbs. GTO Length: 189.8 in. Width: 72.5 in. Height: 54.9 in. Wheel Base: 109.8 in. Curb Weight: 3725 lbs. STS Length: 196.3 in. Width: 72.6 in. Height: 57.6 in. Wheel Base: 116.4 in. Curb Weight: 3960 lbs. CAPRICE LENGTH WIDTH 204.5 72.7 COMMEDORE length width 196 72 Mustang Length: 187.6 in. Width: 74 in. Height: 54.5 in. Wheel Base: 107.1 in. Ground Clearance: 5.7 in. Curb Weight: 3300 lbs. I still belive that the Sigma lite architecture offers signifigant cost savings vs VE because you don't have to convert to a new manufacturing system and you don't have to re-engineer the chassis for use with the US manufacturing system. I think Buick and Pontiac will both get sedans on VE and Pontiac will get a GTO. Sigma lite will stay with Chevy because it can be sold at a good profit at a cheaper price point. I expect Sigma lite to go to Oshawa and VE, once again if it comes to the states to go to Willmington, DE. I could be wrong about all this but I think I have put the crumbs together pretty well. Edit to add Mustang dimensions.

AH-HA had said previously that there was no mention of DOD during the press preview.

OK to bring some info over from CZ28, where I spend most of my time. Simga is a Zeta, VE is a Zeta, Sigma lite is a derivitive of a Zeta. Zeta is a build and design process that allows multiple versions of the same architecture to be built on the same line in similar manners, for instance CTS, STS, SRX are all on Sigma BUT they are different vehicles, the current V-car would fall into the same category also. Holden is the homeroom for RWD so all new RWD programs, excluding trucks and Corvette will be mostly engineered by them. Holden is using VE, as SimonDavid said it is an updated and improved V-car unibody with Sigma suspension, though I am hearing an advanced strut arrangement similar to the newer BMW system is used up front. This is a lower cost platform to Sigma. Problem with VE in the states is that the build process is different than the US uses and would have cost a lot of money to change VE to build it into the states. Though Guy McCoy said he has heard VE may actually come to the states afterall for Buick and Pontiac, more on this in a second. Sigma is high cost because of somewhat extensive use of aluminum, and because Caddy pretty much bore the burden to develop it and now doesn't want to share. Sigma lite is being referred to as the 'RWD Chevy platform' presumably because it bore most of the expense to design and engineer the chassis. Sigma lite or it may be called Zeta lite or something totally different uses Sigma unibody components with a strut front, Mark Ruess thanks for spilling that, along with the Ve (steel intesive IRS). Sigma lite was probably being worked on as far back as 00 all the way till 2002 or 2003. Then it took a nap while GMNA thought about using VE for its US cars. GMNA decides converting a US plant to make VE the way Holden makes it would be to expensive, about a year after that we hear that Zeta is cancelled. All hell breaks loose but some people say don't worry wait till the smoke clears and then look at what you have. So what we have is 3 different RWD platforms all are Zeta's and ALL meet US safety standards all interchange at least part of the rear suspension and ALL can share engines. What we will see is Sigma staying with Caddy, DUH, VE being a Holden and possibly US built chassis with Buick getting a large sedan, Pontiac a midsize sedan and coupe (GTO), and Sigma lite being the basis for a Chevy sport sedan and sport coupe (Camaro). There also lies the possibility for a Chevy Large RWD sedan based on VE. I hope some of the confusion is cleared, GMI won't listen when people lay it out for them I hope you guys do listen. Also I think that a Chevelle sedan makes Mucho sense and that is something I can see happening unless the Impala is the RWD sedan to launch around 09.

Sucks for that guy. I would have kicked my son in his @ss for that.

TE or Theta premium as it has been called will most likely be a 7 seat compact SUV. I know that sounds weird but imagine a lowered lengthened Equinox with SRX like skin and 3 rows of seats, sounds pretty good doesn't it?

I actually own ACAR and I think that the story of the 5th gen Camaro would be more exciting than the C5 Corvette was because I have been watching from the outside for part of it. I can't find the book now but it said vector automotive and then afterwords it had juvenile in []. I will look some more later. Edit: I am so used to posting on CZ28.com's 5th gen board that I use 5th gen to talk about the 5th generation Camaro by default. Sorry I was unclear.

4.7 Ultra V8, maybe SOHC maybe DOHC It isn't really clear (note GM did use DOD on the OHC XV12 a few years ago chop it down and it comes to about 4.7L, and the 3.6 DOHC.

I really doubt that the cig lighter thing is true. I can see if you need to turn it to specific angles to get the correct contact points for accessories to work, like my 97 Monte Carlo, but I can't see them making it totally useless except for a lighter.

Since the engine junkies are in here when did Ford first put out a small block and big block respectively? And did the Ford engines ever get a nickname like the mouse, rat, and elephant?

I won't be going, I live in KY, but what do you guys expect there. Josh said on CZ28 that this will be the Pontiac show. Saturn and Hummer also use LA to show off new models, typically. I wonder if this is where the RWD Pontiac sedan will show up? Would be a REAL big suprise since everyone is concentrating on the Camaro at NAIAS.

Could it be one they did crash testing on?

I would think Zeta will, it is afterall a large car and will be sold as a near limo in Asia. I don't think Global Epsilon will it is a European designed car and I don't think they like bench seats much in the EU.

Come on Scott tell us the color give us SOMETHING till January we need a fix, all the d*mn leaks are plugged tighter than a rivet on the space shuttle.

How close is D-H to the Sigma plant, Lansing right?, if it is close I could see it getting C-flex and being able to build Sigma or Sigma lite or even US VEs depending on the mix of stuff needed. All the platforms would be unibody with similar suspension and build techniques, especially Sigma and Sigma lite.