91z4me

Once again Jim your points are ALL dealer levied. They need to be taken to a regional dealer meeting. They are NOT something GM can impliment due to franchise laws and current dealer/manufacture contracts.

Sly this one is for you. I added the swooshes and some elements, Cobalt Widebody and Malibu cross country crossbar, I feel the concept will prbably have to fit it into the Chevy family a little bit better. Also gave it a splash of color. Sorry, GM/Scott S. has asked that every website remove the pics. - Northstar.

That was the longest post EVER. I really doubt 1 person will read it all the way through, I know I didn't. How about you respond point by point to ANY of the posts directed to you. Tell us how WE are wrong and how YOU are right. That is how you win an argument. You don't post a snippet of a response and you don't post other people's opinion, which has no bearing on the affore mentioned argument, to support your own. Jim be a man and fight back don't run away and ignore stuff while shouting 'The Rick Wagner sky is falling..." Come on Jim PROVE to us that you are right.

Did a really big wave move through GM last night by any chance?

Sly I bet my money on the real show car having those speed lines. This is a clay guys and I am still saying it is not the most recent.

Yes it can. Sell off profitable parts and stock really drops after they sell their stake and GM will need an even longer time to recover.

GMC 2nd in sales. All models are rebadges of Chevy trucks sold at a higher price point, AKA a major profit center for GM. Yeah lets kill that brand. :rolleyes: Pontiac #3 in sales. All cars, except the Vibe a Toyota rebadge, are rebadges of Chevy's with higher price points and a sporty tune. Gotta have something different for younger buyers who want more style. Oh yeah and has quite a bit of new product on the way. Buick #4 in sales. Much higher price point than the Chevies they are based on, except Lucerne which gives the DTS chassis enough volume to justify keeping the $45,000 Buick rebadge around while making a profit in the process. Highest reliability ratings of ANY GM company. Highest customer return rate of ANY Auto company. One of the higest CSI dealer networks in the country, lets piss them off and see how much money they want. Sorry but NONE of these brands are going anywhere. Hummer could be sold to someone like BMW or Toyota who wants a way to lure Yuppies into a high price point vehicle with little investement into R&D. Basically Hummer would command a HUGE market price if sold off correctly and lets face it Hummer won't be the in brand in 10 years. Lets pitch it while the pitchings good. SAAB could realistically stay in Europe and be justified as a premium EU brand where it sells most of its cars, only 30k or so are sold annually in the US where as 125,000+ are sold in Europe. Also the reputation is higher in Europe than the states. Probably won't be sold since all manufacturing and engineering operations were closed down over a year ago. I do forsee selling off of non-automotive parts of GM and that could be a good thing. GM still partially owns GM-Hughes, something like 30%. I also believe GM Electromotive is still partly for sale as I am sure other parts of the company are, GMAC being the big apple that would bring BIG revenue if totally sold (but very bad in the long haul for GM).

Yeah that is GMs big plan. Sell no cars so they can close dealerships and ship production to Korea, which has such a great commercial infrastructure, and then import the cars back to the US. Way to go Sherlock you broke GMs big plan open with a sledge hammer! :rolleyes: Seriously Jim you blame Rick for the ENTIRE Fiat Fiasco? Come on there were likely HUNDREDS of people involved in that deal. Teams of lawyers and tons of analysis done and you know GM as a company decided that at the time, with all the information at their disposal it was a good move to make. To blame one person, even if he was the point man, is rediculous. Also I think that there are other reasons and I am willing to listen to them to see WHY you have a personal vendetta against Mr. Wagner. I don't know him from you BUT I do see you quoting yourself and making up poems, seems a little odd for someone who thinks they are executive material. The beancounter mentality has always been present at GM it is what happens when you get on top. You become conservative. GM has been a VERY conservative company since the 60s. The last BIG risk it took engineering wise was the 4-6-8 caddy V8 and before that the Corvair. That was a HUGE risk. Develop an entirely new structure, unibody, rear engined air cooled flat 6, for originally 2 cars and later only 1. The Corvair lineup could have become a second VW, they had a truck, a wagon, a van, a coupe, a convertible, and a sedan, but instead they persued a person investigating the car and tarnished their rep, made Nader a hero. And then scrapped the line. Now GM has had its LONG draw out approval process to make sure that flops don't make it to production. I think the Aztek showed that this doesn't catch everything and it showed the problem with design by committie. The best thing GM can do RIGHT NOW is reduce its overhead by closing under utilized plants, reducing the healthcare to retirees and UAW members. Next it must address product. This has already begun the designers have been unleashed. Now instead of things being toned down to the point of melted wax we get the cars that the designers wanted. Solstice is the first. Look at the 1st drawings and the production car in the showrooms and BOOM you see what I mean. GM actually was aggressive and look what it got for it, a SURE fire hit. Also on projects partly through the approval process more money was spent on interiors and exterior details. The LaCrosse was to far for the overall designs to be touched so Lutz, who Wagner brought in BTW, threw money into materials and fitments on the interior, chassis tuning and got a DOHC engine into a Buick for the 1st time EVER! The Impala was next retune the interior and exterior. Use subtle style and finally stick that V8 under the W-body that has been engineered to go in since the late 1990s! Lucerne and DTS probably the finest pure luxury large cars on the planet. I am not talking sports sedans, I am not talking ultra luxury cars I am talking about BIG Bold AMERICAN cars with comfortable rides, great power, and un-ending style. I wasn't a fan of the Lucerne till I saw a black and chrome one in traffic and let me tell you my opinion changed 100% on the spot, this comes from a 24 year old male who is a sports car NUT! Now what has the press and other members of the auto world seen that we haven't? The 1st purely 100% Lutz influenced cars and trucks. 2008 CTS said to be perfect by many. 2008 Malibu is said to knock your socks off, that is right a Malibu! Enclave said to be pure beauty, I think you may have actually seen this. Now while the designers have been busy making GM cars stylish again GM powertrain and others have been working on new things. 6 speed autos, DOD V8s and V6s, new OHC V8s, VERY powerful 4 cylinders, DI for the future, BAS mild hybrid system to cost less and be in more cars than Toyota can count. Lots of things comming. So while you fume about something that 1 man was involved in and call for his public beheading he was busy bringing in the right people to get GM back on track and managable and MUCH more profitable. Yes people will loose their jobs and yes there will be hard times but in the end a much stronger, quicker, and healthier GM will emerge. And THAT is what is important.

Say goodbye to everything worth anything, SAAB/Hummer/the rest of Hughes/the rest of GMAC, and then watch how quickly Kerkorian bails. It will make your head spin. Great idea have the fishes invite the sharks over for dinner. :angry:

There has been an HHR concept that features the split grill hasn't there. :AH-HA_wink: Seriously I would be VERY suprised to see the Camaro, which has always carried current Chevy styling through its lifetime, look totally different. Mustang is Ford's Corvette it is not a part of the regular rules or system. That is also why the Vette doesn't have a 'chevy grill'. It is a corprate car it lives outside of the system.

HI, somebody here. Guys this has nothing in common with the SS concept and has a LOT in common with the 99 GTO. My bet is that these were taken from 1999-2002. Speculation only but come on there is a lot of evidence in those photos.

So basicallly you just insulted all dealers then right?

Sigma lite. Sigma unibody with cheaper Zeta suspension.

Sorry Griff but I can't see GM abandoning the FWD is god droves that won't buy a RWD car. I gotta say that Pontiac needs at least 2 FWD cars, a compact and a midsize. Let G8 or whatevere the VE Pontiac is be the sportier RWD model with the GTO as a coupe stablemate.

Actually the C6 pics came from the filming of a commercial in San Fan. Remember the Super Bowl unveiling commercial? That is where part of the car carrier ads were filmed. The streets were closed and a guy happend to get a couple of pics, totally different than this. This is a leak of an OLDER Camaro clay. A design study to see what direction the design should go at the time. It has bearing but is NOT the Camaro concept we will see in Detroit!

That is FREAKING hilarious right there, :lol:

I will give props where props are due. You called it. BUT some elements are similar to the Tahoe front end the guys are working on. :P

So your saying that since GM is majorly undervalued at the moment it is a good buy because sooner or later people will say "Why the crap is it that low? Lets buy a bunch for cheap." Basically what Kerkorian is doing.

I knew they would change a lot of the details I just didn't know how much. So evok wanna venture a guess as to how old the leaked photos are? I guess prior to 2003. My reasoning is that it is VERY close to the 99 GTO concept and has NO cues from the 03 SS concept. Also it doesn't feature the split grill that seems to be Chevy's new corprate face.

Heads will roll Scott Settlemire is PISSED Nobody on a GM board will have the pics up for more than a few minutes because there will be MAJOR repercussions.

I honestly think this is VERY BAD. Also this concept is NOT the one that we will see in Detroit. This concept is at least older than 2003 based on previous comments of people who went to clinics. Think of what was leaked as the 99 GTO's brother with the 99 Nomad as its cousin.

VW's VR series motors?

I will speculate that that model is actually 2 different models fused in the center. Also I bet that was prior to the 2003 SS concept. It has WAY more 99 GTO than 03 SS and since the SS came later I would guess it will have a greater impact than the GTO.

That is probably the dirtiest joke I have ever read. you get this smiley B)

It has the same bore spacing and deck height. It is a VERY compact engine. Go pop in at the local Chevy or Pontiac dealer and take a look it is quite cool.