GMman

Haven't read the article yet, but the pictures of the Chevrolet look much better than the ones I've seen so far. I was getting a little worried after the pics of the red Chevy. The lines on both of these seem to flow much better. They WILL be a big hit....no doubt. BTW, when are the HD's coming out? What are the benefits for GM to have GMC? I am not an advocate of GMC going the way of Oldsmobile, but seems like a lot of work to differentiate two trucks that are identical.

Well.....let's hear what they are.... All you guys with the photo-shop expertise.... Can you do an HD pooping a tundra or titan out the exhaust pipe? As big as the HD exhaust is, one really might fit through there....

In my opinion, there has never been a better looking truck than a '72 Chevrolet. :AH-HA_wink:

This is really good news. I bet Rick is breathing a sigh of relief.....with more fantastic new models being released in the near future, surely things will stay on this path..... Can somebody answer me this.....I know they always close plants to cut costs, but do they ever cut middle and upper level management....the pencil pushing guys that don't really have a job description and make a bunch of $$$ and wouldn't be missed if they got canned? Surely they can save a bundle that way..?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../607290395/1148 After reading this article, it appears to me that there is somewhat of an alliance underway....that has been in the works since the late 90's. How separate is GM Europe from General Motors here in the states?

I've been engaged a discussion about this very article over on the Buick Concept/Future models forum. I tend to believe that C&D, as well as MT have biases toward many foreign makes. I have subscribed to both for around 17 years and have come to that conclusion over a period of many years.... Their "VERDICT" is very telling...I quote: "A good choice if you MUST be seen in a domestic vehicle." That would describe me. I don't like the car getting marked down for such subjective catagories as: questionable styling. In addition, the "attenuated driver involvement" thing gripes me too. These writers are looking for a very specific kind of car driving experience. They apply those same expectations to every vehicle they "test" which means that when a Cadillac is "isolated" that is bad or when a truck drives like a truck, that is bad. I suspect most Cadillac buyers like isolation (as do Lexus buyers) because of the "luxury" portion of this equation. If they don't want "isolation", they buy a Corvette. These are the same people who repeatedly state they "don't get" SUVs. I consider myself someone who appreciates a vehicle for what it's designed to do. I admit, I've never driven the XLR, but based on other reviews of it and the reviews the Corvette earns, it's sad, but not suprising, to see the XLR at the bottom of the list.

That, my friend, is EXACTLY correct.

I cannot find the print ad online, but I just saw the new CTS ad saying: There is an invisibility cloak. It's built in Germany. Can't deny it's got balls. Caddy has the nuts to back it up.... Personally, I always liked the old Lincoln tagline or whatever that read: AMERICAN LUXURY Don't know why they stopped using it, but I wish Cadillac had something like that.

Very profound. Are you missing the point on purpose? I know you're wrong about this, because if you were right, I'd agree with you. :AH-HA_wink: Nobody said it was. But for it to win all the performance tests and then come in last place of a comparison of luxury 'sports' convertibles must mean that the rest of the car is crap-o-la. Maybe, but they seem to be selling like hot cakes in and around Dallas. You're an import car fan, aren't you? It's average during testing MPG was 14. EPA rating of 18/24. Sorry, but 14 mpg out of a 4 banger is horrible. Mid 7's 0-60? According to C&D, it was 7.9 seconds, which sounds closer to 8 than 7.5 to me, but maybe that's just in Texas....anyway, it has a turbo charging all four of it's little japanese cyclinders so I hope it can get out of it's own way. Again, I say the Suburban has been cruciified for getting 14 mpg.... EPA for 4x4 Suburban 15/20. Don't be sorry little buddy. Obviously I don't see the same deficiencies with GM as you do. I want all car makers to get better every year, including GM. That is good for everybody. One way the buff mags (as you refer to them) perpetuate the fallacy that imports are superior to domestics is by comparing an import [that costs more] to a domestic and then reporting that the domestic uses lower quality materials.....leaving one with the impression that Cadillac is on the cheap. I don't agree w/ that. I contend it's largely subjective. Many of these writers are on record as having an affinity toward BMW, Lexus, etc.. They are people too. They like what they like. Just like you and I. Now back to the topic of this thread......I believe BUICK has a fantastic future ahead of it with the Enclave and hopefully the RWD platform which should easily bend the avalon over it's knee for a little spanking....

If Buick built the Velite, people would buy it because it such a fantastically beautiful car. The fact that it is a convertible is almost secondary to me....I'm not big into convertibles, but I'd buy the a Velite. Historically, large 2 doors of any kind tend to sell slower than 4 door...right? The solara is a goner now... BTW, the cowl shake in the sebring convertible is so bad, it's scary....

You wouldn't buy a Buick because it doen't have the tilt/telescoping column, but you like driving a honda accord and a grand caravan? That's awesome.

They're inconsistent, and many writers for both are biased. That is a fact. Take sept '06 C&D. $70k Corvette Z06 loses a 3way with a $130k Porsche 911 and a $192k Ferrai F430. After stating "the Z06 is the best performance value in the world, period" it 'loses the comparison because of "poor seats and interior quality". Maybe for another $100k GM could locate some Porsche quality seats for 'em. Many cars have lost based simply on price. I've seen that over and over. Other times it doesn't seem to mean anything. Aug '06 MT. Caddy CTS-V vs. Audi RS4. There is only $22k separating these two. Audi wins, of course. They comment that the Audi performs better in every parameter....which means 0-60 by 4 tenths of a second, 0-100 by 3 tenths of a second, 60-0 braking by 12 feet, and the quarter mile by 4 tenths of a second. The fact the Caddy gets better mileage, has better weight distribution, has smaller turning radius, has more head/leg/shoulder room, and offers the same warranty for $22k less doesn't mean much. They go on to say "the fit, finish, and materials quality for the audi stands heads above the Cadillac. Really?? I've owned a BMW...have looked at the Audi and I don't see the vast superiority of the German cars or japanese offerings. It's NOT TRUE. Aug '06 C&D Cadillac XLR places 5th out of 5 because of the high price, cramped quarters, questionable styling, and attenduated driver involement. The Mercedes in the test cost $2375 more than the caddy. The Cadillac won EVERY acceleration test. Every one. The mazda cx-7 that got 14 mpg with a 4 cylinder, gets a pass for getting crappy mileage. You won't see that happening with the much more capable Suburban. It's a huge gas guzzling hulk, right? American cars are not w/o their flaws and I don't want to let any car company get off with making bad cars. The rags perpetuate the lie that American cars are inferior to the japanese and german cars. It's just not true. The lexus es rides silky smooth and is tomb like quite, but Buicks are floaty, numb, and ill-handling... whatever....they're biased.

Why is GM releasing the the Enclave last? I understanding staggering the release of the three, but I wonder if there is some 'strategic' reasoning behind the Buick being last?? The Signia looks like a station wagon from Mad Max..

Agreed. They are not in the situation Chrysler was in back in '94 when they redesigned the Ram. They had everything to gain and nothing to lose, really. I think they had 7% of the market in '93 and that was only because of the Cummins. But the Cheyenne concept has been around a while and a lot of people have seen it. Maybe GM got bad feedback on it or something....because I think the Cheyenne design would sell....bigtime.

I think it'd have to be the 70 GS.

No question. The Cheyenne Concept

I remember hating the new design back in 1988. Everyone seemed to. And now I think that body style is classic Chevrolet......owned one since 1993 and still love it. My first thought is that it looks like they tried too hard with the Chevy. The GMC looks cleaner and tough. Like many others have said. I sense the F150 cues when I look at the GMC. Very boxy. As for the tundra....whatever. That is a goofy, stupid little truck. I can't believe people buy that thing. I love the tundra tv commercials that claim that they will last for years and years. They haven't even been out for years and years. How do they know? Trucks are sacred American vehicles, and GM, Ford, as well as Dodge make fine trucks. It's offending that people buy those tundras and titans.

Speaking of dated....the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis platform goes all the way back to '78 or '79......I drive a crown vic everyday at work.....I will say they hold up well. My brother drives a '99 Intrigue. 153k and no problemo. Still drives smoothly, straight as an arrow, is still quite, everything holding up very well. Olds didn't deserve to die.... I know everyone associates rental cars with ones nobody wants to own personally, but I for one have found out about how great many cars were by renting them. Buick Lesabre for example. Drove the first one from Baltimore to Manhattan. It's the quitest car I've ever driven. Excellent ride and power. Styling was the only thing holding that great car back. By contrast, discovered the latest Chrysler 300 catches a lot of looks, but I didn't like the cheap-o interior and road noise. Idiot journalists are gonna write smack based on their opinion....it's okay.....

Hard to beat the VELITE bodywork. What a gorgeous car....

That's a good description....

To me the avalon, like the t100 and tundra thingy, have a goofy look about them. Something odd. I've always heard that toyota was attempting to have a Buick "type" vehicle with the avalon....which really means a quite, nice riding, dependable, large, affordable, and quality vehicle. Face it. America has ALWAYS been japan's inspiration. Just like the F150 was toyota's inspiration in their attempt at a fullsize pickup....and so on. Around these parts (Dallas) there's a whole bunch of everything. The domestics still outnumber the imports, but there still a bunch of them (imports). Funny, I see a lot of Asian folks driving Buicks. Isn't Buick big in China?..

The Charger and 300 are good looking designs, but the interior on both are CHEAP-O. Lots of road noise in both. We rented a 300 and were extremely unimpressed with the stark, hollow, cheap interior. The Lucerne doesn't have a 'daring' style to it, but I think it's elegant looking. It's also very quite on the road. I'll take the Lucerne....

Sad, isn't it? I have every issue of both C&D and MT for the last 17 years and I too am considering not renewing. The bias towards most things foreign is so bad it's stupid. I'm sick of the jabs at GM, Buick in particular. I'm 35 years old and I happen to like the Lucerne and Lacrosse a lot.

I agree, that's why a said: "who knows where they got their info and if it's true". But there are many who believe FWD is the best all around choice for vehicles that are not purely "performance" oriented. I don't happen to be one of them, however, I'm not out on great quality FWD (eg: Lucerne) with the inherent short comings of that design addressed with legit engineering (eg: Pontiac GXP), with AWD as an option... That's just my opinion. What is apparent is that Buick has only FWD (excluding Rainer) and this newest entry, the Enclave is a FWD platform. I love that AWD is going to be available. If so, that is how mine (or my wife's) will be equipped. If the 2010 Lucerne is RWD, I will own 2 Buicks...

August issue of Motor Trend stated that "Buick will offer Lexus-style luxury in front-drive sedans and crossovers" with Pontiac getting the all rear-drive platforms to concentrate on "performance". All this in an effort for the Buick/Pontiac/GMC sales channel to offer "products with completely different design and fucntional attributes from the other at a single showroom, rather than each competing in every market segment". While this makes sense to me, who knows where they got their information and if it's true and/or will change. I, too, would like to see at least one or two RWD Buicks. Not only because I just like RWD better, but because I'd like to see BUICK spank the "all glorious lexus" in every respect. You know, have a flagship offering, as well as a sportier seadan/coupe, (like the lexus GS). But in reality, as long as GM addresses the torque steer issue (as they have in the Grand Prix), I don't have a problem with FWD Buicks...with 5 or 6 spd auto trans or course.