Cmicasa the Great

sooooo... what's Mercedes' excuse for this nasty mess??? or this

Every maker sees a successful model and they eventually emulate it. Every luxo maker has a 3series clone. ATS, IS, A4, C-Class, Q60, upcoming XE. Every luxo maker has a comparable RX.. and calling the Escalade a clone of the Navigator when GM has owned the large SUV segment since it was created is going a bit far. U wish to condemn Cadillac for going the exact route everyone wanted them to go.. while at the same time ignoring and making excuses for your German brands for gradually becoming more Buick/Lexus like than anything else. Actually.. the Cadillac/Chevy dealers I kno of in my area literally treat their Cadillac owners quite different than they do their Chevy ones. The even have a separate waiting room. Now Buick/GMC owners do get the same treatment.. altho I have no complaints their either. CLA is not MERCEDES the way U make MERCEDES out to be. GLA neither. U are making excuses because they eat Strudel instead of Apple Pie

In a nutshell. Cadillac is in a precarious situation where people, or rather analysts want it to be the Cadillac of Luxury and prestige while at the same time having the volume of Chevy. Its inconsistent. Quite frankly the tight-rope BMW, Benz and Audi are walking is the epitome of inconsistent. De Nysschen is right. 100% right. The thing that has actually held Cadillac back is that it allowed the brand to be dictated by the traditional buyers instead of dictating the direction of the traditional buyers. There simply is no growth in playing to the same buyers who once enjoyed driving sofas down the road. Once the forefront leader in all things luxury, they are without a doubt the one brand besides Mercedes that actually have the heritage to pull it off. If losing the bargain luxury shopper, thus some sales on the low end... is the way of bringing in even more affluent buyers. why would they balk at that? Truth is GM has quite frankly the best opportunity in the market to truly offer a real luxury brand. Mercedes and BMW have fundamentally blurred lines between what is a what isn't luxury. We have Benz peddling S-Classes and catering to S-Class customers while at the same time selling CLA and having those same S-Class customers hob-nobbing with the help. For example, at some point S-Class buyers will be sitting in the same service bay as CLA buyers. Those are the same CLA buyers that bought the car because it was a luxury name put on a basic "Nissan Sentra" with a Sentra price. The executives will be essentially sharing their aspirational car with, not even their management teams.. or even their factory workers.. but the cleaning crew. When I take my Cadillac in.. at a my Cadillac only dealership I have always been treated exemplary.. including a loaner Cadillac for the day while my vehicle was being serviced. If U really think a CLA customer is being treated in the same manner as an S-Class customer then U are lost in the sauce. Furthermore the experience of driving the inferior dynamics of the CLA would negate any thoughts of arrival placated by the dealership experience. The car is disgusting to look at.. disgusting to drive.. and disgusting for the current leader of the luxury segment to put on buyers for no other real reason but sales numbers and CAFE compliance. Cadillac can, and has the luxury, excuse the pun, to be autonomous from the lower ranks because it has not just Chevy to bridge the gap with upper LTZ models, but Buick and GMC. Mercedes and BMW can not do that and stay the course of luxury. As more and more "bottom feeders" buy the CLA, more and more sales of the C_Class will fall off the charts. This will also effect the ML once the GLA is introed. Mark my words. At BMW a similar thing will happen..

Some may balk.. but keep in mind that the A8, R8 and A7, Audis most expensive vehicles don't sell as many as the Escalade alone combined

And to further my point... last year... June 2014: Audi’s average transaction price was $51,696 Mercedes’was $58,669 BMW’s was $52,104.

zactly. Kind of a amazing that people will pay over $100K for truck axled SUV. But U kno what?!?!? They DO Tho.. constantly. And despite Drew's words.. Cadillac is getting some damn high ATPs from the CTS, with over $50K, XTS, and even SRX and ATS. The ELR is a foregone conclusion As recently as March, Cadillac’s ATPs were $54,000, near the top of the luxo segment, according to J.D. Power. ATPs were up more than $9,000 per unit from the previous March .

Which says a lot.. about the Ford name. It is the quintessential "truck company." I'm never gonna celebrate Ford having to play third fiddle behind a Foreign company.. but when arguing against Wings.. I often find myself hating Ford because of it's idiot Defender #1

I dunno why I indulge that simple mutha***ker, but when I get to have my cake.. and eat it too.. its worth they typing: GM's fleet sales made up 20 percent of its volume in June, down from 28 percent a year ago Ford's fleet sales made up 35 percent of its volume in June, UP from 34% percent a year ago What that means to Wings is that of: GM's 259,353, only 51,870 were fleet, leaving 207,483 retail. . Ford sold a total of 225,647, and 78,976 were fleet with retail being 146,671. Wait WHAT!!! GM sold almost as many Retail alone as Ford sold TOTAL????!!!! LMFAO For years now casa, I have been repeating the same fact, and for years now, you have been ignoring it, in that rental fleet is the worst fleet and commercial, government, etc......is the good fleet. Transit sales ALONE have spiked the commercial percentage, by design. You keep pretending that it is a mistake on their part to design and build and grow commercial fleet, and I keep spiking that ball in your face. Will you ever learn? So go ahead and show the rental percent for GM, which is only 6.3% for Ford. You know, for reference. 1) RETAIL > Fleet. Any Fleet. GM beat the $h! outta Ford on Retail.. by about 60,000 retail vehicles. Are U implying that Ford's Fleet vehicles.. rental, gov't. or commercial.. is better than GM having more Retail??? If so.. U are a drunk on Field's juices 2) Look at the numbers Dimwit. Hell even without the actual GM breakdown of numbers: Ford sold 18% of it's 35% Fleet.. to Rental. GM only sold 20% Fleet overall. I'm pretty sure that GM sold more than 2% of that 20% to places other than Rental. 3) your foolishness has always supposed that GM send all of its fleet cars to Rental for some odd reason. Despite all of knowing that the Tahoe, Yukon, Impala, Caprice, Malibu, Express Van are all known quantities in Gov't fleet What I do know is that GM favored Retail and commercial fleet sales over Rental last month. Sorry, gotta disagree with you here. I am not signaling out any one manufacturer with these statements. Government fleet and commercial fleet is usually pretty profitable. It also has the advantage of not damaging residual values 18 months later like rental fleet does. Retail isn't necessarily better than commercial or government fleet when there are large wads of cash on the hood to get them to move. 50 Retail sales with $3,500 in rebates aren't better than an order for 50 commercial vans at or close to invoice. OK... then what is the profit per unit on both? GM is on record as saying they are not only making money on retail.. but even their rental sales yield nice profits versus the pre-2010 days. If U kno Wings... he has always.. and I mean always asserted that GM's Fleet sales are pretty much 100% Rental, while Ford's is 100% Commercial or Gov. While I will agree that GM normally has a higher rental percentage fleet than Ford... it doesn't mean that GM doesn't also have Gov/Commercial fleet sales. What makes it worse is that a majority of Ford's Fleet sales last month, 18% (vs 6% Gov and 11% Commer) went to the very thing Wings says is the scourge of the industry; RENTAL. 18%!!! That's 2% lower than the entirety of GM's 20% Fleet rate last month. Normally.. and for the past few years GM has been firm on having about 24% of its fleet sales be Rental. That's the way its been. For June 2015.. GM's rental fleet number dropped 45% from last June. I will also point ATPs for June were up over all makers except VW/AUDI

Once the CT6 and Vseries vehicles go on sale.. expect that 15% to rise even further as more high-end products in the above $65K range start selling. GM backed off incentives last month.. and dropped overall fleet deliveries by 45%.. Cadillac gained in retail numbers thus the very nice improvement to the bottom line. This is what JDN was talking about would happen when he took over and exclaimed that sales would drop, but prestige would rise. The idea of Cadillac being a volume brand at GM is not a necessary one if one looks at the whole picture. GM has quietly raised prices across the board, allowing for 2008-2013 Cadillac pricing to be slowly creeping into 2014-2015 Buick, GMC, and even Chevy pricing. Meaning that the other brands are selling in a price point that used to be Cadillac's.. while Cadillac is now joining the numbers that Benz and BMW pull in, albeit not in their volume, but ATPS are coming into their stratosphere nonetheless.

General Motors’ prestige luxury brand, Cadillac, is in the process of a well-known transformation, laying down a solid foundation for growth well into the future. And despite declining sales volume, Cadillac is reaping (some of) the fruits from its labor by seeing an increase in average transaction prices. The average transaction price (ATP) for Cadillacs sold in June in the U.S. market topped $52,000, a $7,000 — or 15 percent — increase over the same period a year ago. The brand attributes the increase to ongoing product enhancements that are “transforming the brand and elevating its position in the luxury marketplace”. “Our goals are to improve the quality of the business in the U.S., while maintaining global growth,” said Cadillac President Johan deNysschen. Read more: GM Authority

No.. U effin do it. I provided U with what matters overall; GM 20% Fleet sales vs Ford 35% Fleet sales, with Ford having 18% of their 35.. being Rental. U can't be this dumb. Ford's Rental Fleet sales, alone, were almost the entirety of GM's TOTAL fleet sales This is why a lot of people have U on their ignore list.. because U are blatantly stupid.. and a troll to boot that very rarely does anything, but ask idiotic questions or pose foolish innuendos. Ford BRAND outselling every other GM BRAND in the U.S. is like suggesting that U are wealthier than some one because U have $20,000 (Ford) in Bank of America $5,000 (Lincoln) in Wells Fargo vs them having: $19,000 in Bank of America (Chevy), $14,000 in Wells Fargo (Cadillac) $17,000 in Citibank (Buick) $18,000 in JP Morgan Chase (GMC) ... with U only focusing on the Bank of America part

Your opinion on the price is valid.. but only if the price was the real reason why the CTS wasn't selling in the numbers it was selling previous generation. (see below) Sales off by 30%.. Coupe sales accounted for 30%.. No Coupe= loss of 30%.. if the coupe buyers of previous generation ONLY WANTED A COUPE. The above ^^^^^^^^^^ reason is an answer to a question that no one who wants to say "I told U so" wants to hearntw.. the only one in this thread saying that the Cadillac price is high.. is the guy who believes we should all forgo the Cadillac and buy an MKZ in its place. Because as an ENTHUSIAST.. he believes we should all drive Fusion derived FWD.. or AWD cars with 340HP less We all know what's what on that score, man But on a serious note, your pointing out the lack of a coupe and my comments about Cadillac trying to hold the line on prices make the sales numbers of Cadillac sedans even more remarkable. With due props to the outgoing CTS, this is a class-leading platform. Truth is that most stand alone luxury brands are utilizing their name to sell lackluster products in an effort to remain relevant in a down economy. They are also trying to stave off CAFE and equivalent mandates by offering lower end products with weaker, more efficient engines. Benz for instance would be DEAD if they only offered vehicles with the "xx350" and above name. Cadillac could survive selling only Escalades and perhaps only vehicles with 3.6L and above because it has Chevy, Buick, and Opel/Vaux to widdle down its footprint. From an onlooker's perspective, one with a realistic point ... the CTS is selling fine CONSIDERING its hobbled by a line-up that is minus what it offered a year prior (No coupe, no Vseries, no coupe Vseries, no old inventory of discounted Gens 2s) It is now selling a sedan only version with a higher price tag. WOW.. sales went down.. go figure. I could say a similar logical stand point thing about the ATS but I would add that it is selling against a competitive background that is offering about 80% more in their line-up than Cadillac is giving the ATS. I posted it before, but here goes again: 328diesel Sedan 328diesel xDrive Sedan 3series Sedan 3series xDrive Sedan ActiveHybrid 3 3series xDrive Sports Wagon 3series xDrive Sports Wagon 3series diesel xDrive Gran Turismo 3series xDrive Gran Turismo M3 4Series Coupe 4Series xDrive Coupe 4Series Gran Coupe 4Series xDrive Gran Coupe 4Series Convertible 4Series xDrive Convertible M4 vs ATS Sedan ATS-V (Not even here yet) ATS Coupe ATS-V Coupe (Not even here yet)

Your logic is flawed. I'm not saying that having a coupe magically boost the numbers. The LOSS.. the LOSS.. the LOSS of 30% of what U sold last year, of Gen 2 Coupes, would certainly make the CURRENT CTS.. the one that is being reported in the negative news articles, sales reports, and negative domestic hater's commentaries.. like yours.. is the reason I said what I said. If Cadillac plans on not offering a coupe for the CTS.. then they need to offer a "6Series or CLS" type product lickity-split to counter the loss of that dynamically styled vehicle. It has actually affected their sales numbers overall in the cars dept. Their competition at BMW and Benz offer these products in their 6series, 6Series GC, EClass Coupe, and CLS. Point blank the Cadillac line-up is missing a great deal of what would allow them to be sales champ in the market. a 6 car line-up is simply not ever gonna compete in sales against a 16 car line-up over at BMW. Even worse is that within that 16 car line-up they are offering Chevy and Buick competitors for all intents. The only way Cadillac can truly compete in this atmosphere of luxury cars being all things to all buyers is for GM to kill Chevy.. kill Buick.. kill GMC.. kill Opel/Vaux/Holden and only have Cadillac selling their products. Everything from Cadillac Sparks to Cadillac Corvettes to Cadillac Silverado 3500HDs. OK OK.. I digress because technically Cadillac could meet BMW in sales by simply combining sales channels of Cadillac and Buick/GMC. BMW sold 2.1 million last year. Cadillac/Buick/GMC sold 2.1 Million. ^^^^ That is what BMW did last year by employing a technique of selling the same levels of quality as those 3 GM brands last year globally. If U have been to Germany in the last few years.. U would have had to notice that the BMW 316i is perhaps less luxurious than a Chevy Cruze 1.8L LS let alone the 1.4L LTZ.

I dunno why I indulge that simple mutha***ker, but when I get to have my cake.. and eat it too.. its worth they typing: GM's fleet sales made up 20 percent of its volume in June, down from 28 percent a year ago Ford's fleet sales made up 35 percent of its volume in June, UP from 34% percent a year ago What that means to Wings is that of: GM's 259,353, only 51,870 were fleet, leaving 207,483 retail. . Ford sold a total of 225,647, and 78,976 were fleet with retail being 146,671. Wait WHAT!!! GM sold almost as many Retail alone as Ford sold TOTAL????!!!! LMFAO For years now casa, I have been repeating the same fact, and for years now, you have been ignoring it, in that rental fleet is the worst fleet and commercial, government, etc......is the good fleet. Transit sales ALONE have spiked the commercial percentage, by design. You keep pretending that it is a mistake on their part to design and build and grow commercial fleet, and I keep spiking that ball in your face. Will you ever learn? So go ahead and show the rental percent for GM, which is only 6.3% for Ford. You know, for reference. 1) RETAIL > Fleet. Any Fleet. GM beat the $h! outta Ford on Retail.. by about 60,000 retail vehicles. Are U implying that Ford's Fleet vehicles.. rental, gov't. or commercial.. is better than GM having more Retail??? If so.. U are a drunk on Field's juices 2) Look at the numbers Dimwit. Hell even without the actual GM breakdown of numbers: Ford sold 18% of it's 35% Fleet.. to Rental. GM only sold 20% Fleet overall. I'm pretty sure that GM sold more than 2% of that 20% to places other than Rental. 3) your foolishness has always supposed that GM send all of its fleet cars to Rental for some odd reason. Despite all of knowing that the Tahoe, Yukon, Impala, Caprice, Malibu, Express Van are all known quantities in Gov't fleet What I do know is that GM favored Retail and commercial fleet sales over Rental last month.

both SEXY

I dunno why I indulge that simple mutha***ker, but when I get to have my cake.. and eat it too.. its worth they typing: GM's fleet sales made up 20 percent of its volume in June, down from 28 percent a year ago Ford's fleet sales made up 35 percent of its volume in June, UP from 34% percent a year ago What that means to Wings is that of: GM's 259,353, only 51,870 were fleet, leaving 207,483 retail. . Ford sold a total of 225,647, and 78,976 were fleet with retail being 146,671. Wait WHAT!!! GM sold almost as many Retail alone as Ford sold TOTAL????!!!! LMFAO

Your opinion on the price is valid.. but only if the price was the real reason why the CTS wasn't selling in the numbers it was selling previous generation. (see below) Sales off by 30%.. Coupe sales accounted for 30%.. No Coupe= loss of 30%.. if the coupe buyers of previous generation ONLY WANTED A COUPE. The above ^^^^^^^^^^ reason is an answer to a question that no one who wants to say "I told U so" wants to hear ntw.. the only one in this thread saying that the Cadillac price is high.. is the guy who believes we should all forgo the Cadillac and buy an MKZ in its place. Because as an ENTHUSIAST.. he believes we should all drive Fusion derived FWD.. or AWD cars with 340HP less

XTS???

Ford used aluminum to essentially get their vehicles down to the same weight GM trucks already were. GM doesn't even have to go to the extreme it went for the CT6 in order to stay out in front come 2018.. all they have to do is continue down the path they are already blazing; innovative ideas in processing metals in a fashion that doesn't take away from the structural integrity of the vehicle, while at the same time not going so far as to cause havoc with one's insurance policy if an accident were to occur.

Find it hilarious that Wings is not bringing up the fact that Ford was 35% Fleet sales last month. Fleet June Mo. '15 / '14 Commercial 11 % / 12 % Government 6 % / 6 % Rental 18 % / 16 % Total 35 % / 34 %

Those wishing to upgrade the suspension of their non-Vsport third-generation (2014, 2015, 2016) Cadillac CTS Sedan with 2.0 Turbo LTG or 3.6L LFX engines can now do so, thanks to a suspension upgrade kit directly from Cadillac. Termed Vsport Performance Suspension Upgrade Package, the official Cadillac accessory is includes: P245/40R18 front and P275/35R18 rear, summer-only run-flat tires (XBY) 18″ x 8.5″ (45.7 cm x 21.6 cm) front and 18″ x 9.5″ (45.7 cm x 24.1 cm) rear, Midnight Silver premium painted aluminum wheels (SPH) Performance suspension (FE3) Read more: GM Authority

It was my understanding that the Silverado may not go the route of an Aluminum frame in the way that Ford has in the FSeries. This is GREAT advertising GM "manning up." Love it. Nothing wrong with them going for the juggler.. it is the way Americans used to be.. when we were great. Now U have weak people always trying to "play nice" and be "PC." I guarantee I could search out a Ford commercial that uses similar ploys to dictate its supposed superiority. Heck, I remember 2 years ago when the Poolside commercial came out.. Ford fans, in their usual hypocritical way, had no issue with the Ford mockery I wish GM had of just named the Colorado "Silverado 1000" like Ford does with its various FSeries and this market share argument would be null. Heck. The Combined GM Trucks sold almost 80K last month, the Silvy alone selling within 4K of the FSeries, with Colorado on the same lot, not to mention the Tahoe and Suburban.

Why is this a surprise? U sound like what must go thru Cadillac Brand manager's mind. CUVS ARE THE CRAZE RIGHT NOW!!! In all segments. Build more CUVS, but keep building and establishing (in Cadillac's case) cars when the market shifts again in 5 years As for your styling comment. I found this and altho off topic.. At a glance U can only really tell which is which if U look at their hoods and bottom grill adornments

Why does this matter the 5/6 series sales falling??? BMW absorbed that fall with a shift of customers buying a more depreciated vehicles in the X5 and X6? It is no different than if buyers at Cadillac weren't buying CTSs, but bought Escalades, XTS, and SRXs instead. The only people that should be crying in that situation would be the designers or engineers of the CTS as they might feel their "baby" wasn't getting any love. The Escalade is already profitable as hell, simply because of its sheer numbers being sold via K2xx under the Silvy, Sierra, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, XL, and Escalade. XTS the same due to Impala, Malibu, LaX, Regal, Insignia. The SRX is profitable as hell.. simply because its 6 years old.. sits on a hybridized platform of Epsilon/Theta, and has sold well since day one. Where BMW is smartest is that it has these alternatives aplenty for shifts in the market with none of their cars, most likely veering to far off course in profitability or initial costs from the next. In other words if a 5 series cost $20K to build the 6 Series only cost $2,000 more. X5 somewhere in the middle. I'm exaggerating but U get my point.

You've read this here before, you chose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your agenda. Earlier today alone I corrected you that the A6 starts cheaper than the CTS. Cadillac as a brand earns a higher brand ATP than BMW. Cadillac CAN get "german money" and does. Above post spouts yet another ignorant statement. People don't buy an Escalade to transport 7 people, they buy it because it's an Escalade; an icon. Having a smaller SUV won't take away from it's sales but add to them. I think that what he is attempting to do is put down Cadillac as well. I will say that Cadillac does get "German Money" when Cadillac comes at a segment with an established criteria. The ELR was a glaring example of what I'm talking about. As "shiny" as that car is, it was never firmly established WHY one was expected to spend almost 2X the price of the Volt on one. Fact is that the ELR, a gorgeous car, sumptuous interior, magnificent technology, was never explained to any mass market as to what it was even in the "Poolside" commercial. In fact... the Poolside commercial should have been used for the Escalade, or better yet... saved for the CT6. The ELR??? No sunroof. Slow. A two seater, despite the seats in the rear. A compact in a segment that has no compacts like it without them being . sports cars and having sports car attributions (speedy, open top, fun) That being said.. as great as the Alphas are, they are not what people expect from Cadillac still after 10 years of being on the Sporting course that they have been. While it is perfectly fine to beat BMW in terms of driving dynamics, they should be stating that their actual TARGET is Benz. I think people are confused. I think that if Caddy had a unified front of product and marketing we would not be having these countless discussions about their numbers being low. Let me be the first to say it so Smk can read.. get it in his head, and shut the *** about for all time; CADILLAC is LUXURY ON PAR WITH BMW, BENZ, AND AUDI, just selling with a Jaguar limited line-up and no marketing. No one I kno, wealthy or not, has yet to tell me that they didn't consider Cadillac luxury. Many have told me that Cadillac simply did not have all of the types of vehicles they were looking to buy when they went onto the showroom floor. With every year we see Cadillac pushing forward with new product that will hopefully fix this issue.