Cmicasa the Great

So What??? The Saturn deal is supposedly DEAD, duly noting that it was the fact that Penske was unable to obtain cars for the brand from the Koreans after GM stopped supplying them. Confirming what the WSJ was saying. I saw this whole deal as bullcrap anyway considering GM would be essentially competing with the newly owned Penske Saturn initially with its own sourced vehicles and then with Samsung sourced ones. Personally I am of the opinion that we simply don't need anymore brands here in the U.S. as it is already over saturated. Ideally GM will see that the peanuts that they were getting for Saturn would not even remotely make up for the money that they could potentially lose if Penske's Saturn introduced yet another brand into the U.S. market. I simply don't see the need for anymore IMPORTS being brought into our market. It's ridiculous to believe that this is cool just to say that the brand was saved. Penske would have gotten the Saturn brand for about $100-$200 Million. CHUMP CHANGE in fact, with Fritz's belief that he is getting rid of more of a loss than he could possibly incur if they have to compete with another brand. When all is said and done.. U will have Hummer and Saturn sold for a combined amount less than $500 Million. I hate seeing more Asians entering into this market. It makes me kinda sick.. especially the Hummer one. As I said before... my real wish is that the Hummer deal falls thru as well, leading GM to merge it with GMC. It was a very profitable brand and doesn't actually need it's name to do what it was doing. The Hummer name could be made into a Trim level in line with the Denali one. Denali being the upper-level near lux version of GMC and the Hummer line being the off-road part of the Division. OR take the opportunity for GMC to actually differentiate itself even further from Chevy. Certainly U would keep the more moderate vehicles as they appeal to the mainstream buyers.. but why not merge the H2, H3, H3T, and that gorgeous Hx (H4) into the line-up of GMC calling them all the Denali trim level. Just replace the HUMMER insignia with GMC. Why in the world would GM want to sell this brand to another Foreign entity just to make a quick buck? How is this gonna pose competition for the GMC Brand??? Why did they not just merge the two brands and forgo the minuscule possible $100 Million-200 million? That amount is less than last year's gross made on the brand... In this whole shake up, we have now a situation where we witness two more automakers entering into the U.S. market.. a market that is as diluted as any in the world with exception to China. Don't get me wrong.. I am still in love with the idea of a 4 core Brand GM. But any consideration of selling these "bad brands" off to the highest bidder kinda makes me sick.. and makes me seriously in favor of simply killing them altogether. Saturn Should have been the "New Olds" Division called "Aurora" and Hummer should have been simply called GMC's "Denali" H2, H3, H... etc. Saturn, an Experiment that should have never been implemented in the first place, was in my opinion bound to fail. It was not even widely known to be American, let alone apart of GM, yet despite all of that, a a cult following of "nice people" it still continued to never truly contribute to the bottom line of it's encouraging parent. Keep in mind that when GM green-lighted the Saturn brand in 1985 GM already had Chevy, Buick, Olds, Pontiac, and Cadillac. Roger Smith, in all his wisdom , damn idiot , created the brand to combat the growing menaces from Japan... instead of just revamping one of the brands already under his charge... like OOOOOH... Oldsmobile. That brand could have certainly been the one to get the Saturn treatment, as it was in line to be revamped anyway in just 5 short years. Yup... the Olds revamp was already being put into motion in 1990. The Aurora, Intrigue, and Alero were not just pulled outta the air in 1995. Ironically.. they all looked like more substantial Saturns of the time than anything else (See Below). Oldsmobile’s general manager even suggested renaming the brand "Aurora." Of course that didn't go over well and in the end, he just left the name off the Intrigues and Aleros, or rather made the Olds name so small U would barely notice it there. The Same thoughts go out to Hummer... and Ricky Boy not simply making it a part of GMC from the start. IN the year 2000... there was the Terradyne. A Hummer if I've ever seen one. :AH-HA_wink:

I'm pretty sure all the terrorist threats, Iran Nuclear initiatives, Afghanistan, Health care Reform , etc are all secondary to the Z28

The interesting thing about the coming of the Z28 Camaro is that I am assuming that the Z06 is gonna get the LSA engine as well. It would stand to reason that the Z28 get a detuned version making about 540HP (to compete with GT500) and the CTS-V and Z06 get the same 556HP-570HP engines like they shared with the LS6. I just can't see GM giving the Camaro and more powerful or equally as powerful engine as the CTS-V or Z06.

Two totally different demographics.. and one that I HOPE GM will see fit to address with the next Impala or a Lacrosse "Super." An AWD version with a turboed 3.0L or 3.6L with 370 or 400HP respectively would fit the bill. Anyone who has heard or driven a 3.6L Camaro will attest that it's exhaust note is nothing to laugh at at.

Hey Oldsmoboi and "007"... That quote above, in particular the part I underlined says a lot.. and I agree with U and it. A very interesting point I have tussled with for quite a while since ascending past that stage in life where 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times were the motivation for getting me in the showroom and writing a check. OK OK... I know what I just bought, but lets be honest... I've been raving about the CTS since it debuted in 304HP 3.6L form with the looks and luxo to beat the 535i in every way except acceleration times. The Vseries version was an absolute necessity for me. as this time around I had to have the TOP OF THE LINE. Corvettes against Vipers, GT-Rs and 911s, CTS-Vs against M5s, G8s against Chargers, Camaros vs Mustangs??? Absolutely.. it makes sense. Performance in straights, performance on corners, absolutely stunning looks that put people in awe when they are just standing still. Yup... even the GT-R as ugly as it is (sorta like the way U would still have to stare if Rosie O'Donnel walked in front of U with no clothes on and bent over in the Doggy Style Position. U'd have to look...) it still elicits attention. PERFORMANCE cars, yes, as that is their intended function. Luxo for the Luxo Intended With looming CAFE standards on the horizon, it is an automatic assumption that performance on mainstream vehicles would take a back seat to fuel economy. With Luxury tho... I am witnessing a situation not so much to do with fuel economy, altho that certainly seems to be part of the picture, but more so with amenities and OPTIONS. The Buick Lacrosse is a prime example of this. I still stand by the idea that the 3.6L should be the putting out the 304HP the Camaro and CTS, but I am seeing the light and reasoning behind why GM is offering the 3.0L and upcoming 2.4L. Truth is in that situation the 3.0L is capable of 270HP on it's own (see CTS) putting that engine in the Lacrosse would automatically demand that the 304 version be used as the top offering.. but GM goes a different route, perhaps realizing that 90% of the buyers of these type of cars simply does not have a weekend passes at the local race way. I mean.. normally I would be comparing the Lacrosse's 0-60 times, win or lose, to the Lexus ES's... but then LOOK AT THEM. The way the Lacrosse looks in interior and exterior styling.. not to mention it's superior luxury appointments compared to the ES350... and one automatically has to completely see pass that .5 sec loss. I won't mention that the ES350 is a half a foot shorter than the Lacrosse is not as wide and has a shorter Wheel base. But the performance enthusiast has to say that. Will U seriously feel the "SEAT OF THE PANTS" 5/10ths difference wen U are driving the Buick compared to the Lexus??? I doubt it.. specially when U take a look at what's surrounding U via interior refinements and stunning luxury fitments. GM is following the CTS formula it would seem. Luxury >(greater than) than Straight Performance <(less than) Overall performance including owner satisfaction. The SRX seems to run this same song. I mean I have challenged and asked every Escalade owner I kno.. "How does it feel to kno that U can run down a Porsche Boxster and Mercedes SLK and BEAT THEM???" 9 outta 10 tell me they have never even tested that notion. They bought it for the "WHY Apologize" part of it all... the Luxury and prestige.

Those two interior shots ALONE, not to mention the absolutely magnificent exterior, would have been enuff to get my mony over the ES350. I personally think that with a V8.. or turbo 3.0 or 3.6L with at least 360HP.. the Lacrosse could be a GS competitor... and WIN. It just slaughtered this Camry Fraternal Twin.

LINK to the Beating

Real testament, that as much as I hate Edmund's driving skills... their photographer deserves a raise. THIS CAR IS EFFIN GORGEOUS... and if Buick gets a version of the OPC/VXR as a GNX... as they should RIGHT OUT THE GATE, they could instantly destroy the "Grandpa" image so many haters like to tout. It's 0-60 times versus Audi's S4 are to to do with te fact that the Audi packs more power buy about 8HP... and weighs 400lbs more than the S4... which knowing Audi's normal lack of sound isolation in the previous S4s and the new GM's love of more sound isolation... explains a lot. Two things pop to mind... GM.. KILL The NOrthstar already. The STS, Lucerne, and DTS won't need it soon... and if teh Lucerne remains the 3.6LDi would certainly suffix until the Angel of Death appears at it's door. It actually has more HP than the Lucerne's 4.6LV8. Second... GIVE THIS version of the 2.8L to Cadillac in the SRX. Make the 300HP version the base engine. BTW... to U GMI members.. please, in argument make a point that the 325HP 2.8L proves that the Haldex system can handle more than 300HP... CHEVYRULES believes otherwise.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...;mktid=cj260233

Supposedly It's not so far fetched... In reference to ONLINE OUTCRY.. the Buick Vue was killed... So why not this? LINK to FASTLANE

The STS U have pictured wasn't just an update of the STS that was introduced at the same time as the current M35/45. Hell the STS still looks great IMO... and it's a lame duck, due for replacement in 2011. BUT WHOOOOAH... doesn't the CTS actually compete with the M??? I mean the M competes with the 5series. The CTS competes with the 5series, so I'm guessing that Cadillac has the leg up on this one considering the fact that what I'm seeing from this M is essentially a larger version of the G35 sedan already in production. HELL.. at first glance I actually thought that they had uploaded a G35 pic instead of the new M. I will say that Infiniti does have an advantage over Cadillac due to their willingness to put their V8s in there mid-size Luxo offerings. 400HP coming outta a 5.6L DOHC is cool, but probably in a BIG and heavy package. Cadillac could easily raid the GM engine bin and grab the light, and petite 6.2L with 430HP and make a great deal of us happier.

If we bombard them with this request.. perhaps they will realize that there simply is no reason in the world to offer this engine. It's Pointless... and makes no sense whatsoever considering the 3.6L gets better fuel economy with a substantial increase in power. The 2.8L does as well... and if the reasoning behind not offering the 2.8L as the only engine is it's necessity for PREMIUM FUEL... then the 3.6Lsidi with 304HP makes a better case. Boost the 2.8L Turbo to 325HP (as is the Opel Insignia OPC) and all is well.

I'm serious. We now have a way of actually directly talking to GM management thru the "TELL FRITZ" http://www.gmreinvention.com/?commentSubmitted=true LINK I wrote: Please for the love of GOD.. Get rid of the 3.0L in the Cadillac SRX, CTS, and Lacrosse. It does not improve the MPG and obviously performs worse than the 3.6L or 2.8Lt. I am willing to bet the 3.5L would do better . Unless the 3.0L has a turbo. Kill it.

LINK

GM sales drop 15%, but up from previous quarter Robert Snell / The Detroit News General Motors Co. reported this morning it sold 1.94 million vehicles globally during the second quarter, down 15 percent from a year earlier due to continued economic pressures and a drastic cut in vehicle production. But compared to the first quarter, sales were up almost 20 percent. Through the first six months of the year, GM sold 3.55 million vehicles, down 22 percent compared to last year. Meanwhile, sales outside the U.S. rose to 72 percent of the automaker's total sales, compared to 65 percent a year ago. Sales in Asia rose 38 percent, but GM posted double-digit drops in sales in the other three regions, led by a 32 percent decline in North America. The European market fell 20 percent while sales declined almost 21 percent in GM's Latin America, Africa and Middle East region.LINK

Such is the constant cycle of competition. U still didn't address the point.. only my language and attitude. Good Job Why isn't it right? A Corvette ZR1 is faster to 60 than an ENZO Ferrari. What's your point? The Cobalt SS is also almost as fast as the Mustang GT V8. A simple factory backed upgrade to 295HP/340lbs will remedy that. No offense taken... I didn't do it for the Corvette.. I did it for my COUNTRY. But after talking to half of the Sell-Outs here on the web, I wish that I hadn't. Most Americans aren't worth being "Defended." I'm sure. I Hope

The 70s???? Most would easily say the 60s. Me personally.. I think the auto industry is being renewed in a better way. Why are so many of U so afraid of change. Rebelling against change is human, but sometimes progress has to happen via the worst possible scenarios. My point being is that the Combustible engine will hopefully not be our "Horse and Carriage." That lasted for 5000 years

There has been heavy speculation that the reason for the death of the BAS I hybrids is because BAS II is on the move. I think also the VOLT is proof positive that GM is years ahead of teh competition. Hey... just outta curiosity where are Ford's 22MPG City Expedition... or 32MPG Hwy Escape??? Even the Hybrid can't seem to beat the new Equinox's MPGs on the road.. where it counts in a vehicle like this. WhatevertheEFF. U said "GM sells one kind of car: boring front-drive sedans, with your choice of four-cylinder or V6 engines with automatic transmissions only and in sizes small, medium, and large." (I quoted U).. which was wrong since they sell a multitude of cars while Ford sells exactly what U said GM ONLY sells.. with the exception of the Mustang. I'M STILL LAUGHING MY ASS OFF. The Camaro is still somehow managing to run with Ford's lighter 540HP Mustang with a 114HP deficency... hmmmm As for the Corvette.. I bought my first new one when I was 23. I was just outta the Air Force, and in undergrad. SmartMoney helpped me on that one tho. Based on the reason why I even responded to the un-knowledgeable post.. I'd say U did. Because Chevy doesn't have anything in it's V6 program that could be bumped up to beat the Mustang AGAIN? This kinda reminds me of BMW fans getting all exited because the M5 is getting a 550-600HP engine in 2011 or 12 to finally beat the CTS-V.. because GM doesn't have a 600HP version of the LS engine.. OH WAIT!!! BTW... The 3.6L without any forced induction is fully capable of 350HP, but has been stifled for the sake of the NORTHSTAR program in the STS. It selling for $10K over its 3.6L version. What??? No matter... I wouldn't really be interested anyway.

Currently... yeah I could see where U are coming from with the Impala being similar in size to the Malibu.. but keeping the Malibu on a SWB EpII platform and pushing the Impala onto a LWB platform... as a less luxo, sportier Lacrosse sister would be perfect.. and bridge the gap perfectly. If the G8 were still turned into the Caprice.. STILL.. cool.. but some upgrades would need to be made in the interior/tech to make it a better competitor. Also... quiet as it's kept... the Accord is really no longer a Camry competitor b size. I admitted as much.. and am proud of it. That's why I put my money, which could have bought any other brand in any other segment or price range, where my mouth is.

Reminds me of this for some reason:

Not at all.. I actually believed that the IMPALA should continue being a FWD vehicle with AWD as an option... Sorta like a "Lacrosse lite" but with focus on family and sport while the Lacrosse focused on family and luxo. I'm sorry but I simply don;t see Impala type sales in a RWD vehicle. FWD/AWD LWB EpII would yield 150K+ sales even with the Malibu selling right next to it on a SWB EpII platform after it's MCE. I'm a GM fan absolutely.. but don't pretend U kno me slim.

Sad isn't it?

That's what they get for trusting in the Japanese car makers. Honda shouldn't even trust themselves Japanese cars are so covered in BullSh*T perception it isn;t even funny.

So lets talk about the times Honda sourced WHOLE VEHICLES from a GM subsidiary. The Trooper and Rodeo thank U for remembering when they were called "SLX and Passport"

NAaaah. I have to give that to the Tundra