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Alfa Brera?

No. Not really. It was not Buick's responsibility to make sure Oldsmobile could afford a 2nd Gen Aurora. Everything is contingent. Why should Buick proceed with a program and burn money on a non-profitable vehicle just for the sake of another division? Even with the cancellation of the original 2nd Gen Aurora, Oldsmobile was bleeding money. So Oldsmobile really didn't have the money for the program... Let alone completing the development on its own. So in all actuality, Buick's Riviera program wouldn't have saved them. The 2nd Gen Aurora may have been built, but the division's fate was made. My personal regret is over the loss of the Riviera. From my understanding, Oldsmobile chose to burden itself with the cost for the 'development' and the 'exclusiveness' of the Northstar derived 4.0V8 & Shortstar 3.5lV6. Sharing the development costs for both of those engines with another division (like Buick) could have saved Oldsmobile. Those engineering costs hurt Oldsmobile more than anything (along with a shrinking customer base). From many perspectives, Oldsmobile dug its own grave.

I agree... A lot of people viewed the Phaeton as a re-badged A8, when it wasn't. One VW mistake was introducing the Phaeton W12 around the same time Audi received the A8L 6.0... automatic association, with discredit going to the VW. A completely unique Zeta-based Buick luxury sedan similarly priced to the Cadillac STS would probably be more accepting because 1) price 2) they wouldn't have anything in common. But if Buick would have coincidentally debuted a 440hp Super V8 in the Zeta sedan the same time Cadillac debuted the STS V-Series, well then... Market would assume Cadillac clone. As you said... In order for GM to accomplish what VW failed to do, GM needs to make sure their overlapping models are sufficiently differentiated.

Buick has raised its own bar for new vehicle presentation after every recent release. Lucerne was very nice. Enclave's appears to be world class. I love the Enclave site... sound, look, and feel are all impressive.

I believe that particular photo has been shown to be inaccurate. The wood does actually line-up from the dash to the doors in other pictures:

You forgot one point. The whole reason why Oldsmobile had to go to GM and ask about Sigma was because the original 2nd gen MY2000 Oldsmobile Aurora was to be developed along with the MY2000 Buick Riviera... just like the original program for the 1995 Riviera/1995 Aurora. Buick decided to drop the slow selling Riviera instead of going through with the joint program, leaving Oldsmobile without a program to develop the planned 2nd Gen Aurora. Some information implies that part of the internal struggle had to do with Oldsmobile refusing to share the 4.0 V8 with Buick. Oldsmobile wouldn't give in so Buick killed the Riviera, thus killing the 2nd Gen Aurora, thus causing the Anthem/Antares sedan to become an impromptu Aurora. Oldsmobile had already received Billions of dollars in assistance and I don't think any one internally was willing to sacrifice on its behalf.

I'm 100% for bringing this to the US. We need a car like this here.

There needs a successor. No question. Hummer needs an H1 flagship vehicle. Maybe Cadillac & Hummer can share in the costs to come up with something that can be used by both and still be unique. It would allow Cadillac to have a Flagship SUV that's not shared with Chevy or GMC. Maybe that platform could then provide the next gen Escalade & H2 as well.

Show me one picture of the Enclave with the same stereo head as the Cobalt, and then I'll evaluate it. :AH-HA_wink:

If that makes the Enclave's interior look "cheap" then every Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep must look 3rd World... especially the luxury Aspen and Commander. My point is, the Hyundai's interior looks good, but the Enclave's interior doesn't look cheap regardless to what it's compared to.

I wish it would be with Buick, and that they would continue with the Rendezvous name.

The Northstar name has been around for awhile, but I know you already know the RWD Northstar is not old by any means... Here's a good breakdown for those who want more information on the new Northstar V8 - http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002/09/05/146931.html

I wouldn't think anyone could take offense to this topic. It's in reference to the engineering prowess of the Polish Nation rather than towards the Polish race itself. I'd place this equivalent to jokes regarding Korean quality... it's about the product, not the race.

Yeah Evok introduced the pic to us in this topic last week:

Has it been confirmed which one (Buick or GMC) will receive the Torrent replacement?

Based on public perception, the reason for the "inappropriateness" for Buick to have an $80k vehicle is similar for VW: Cadillac & Audi. If VW & Buick were stand alone entities, the market might be more accepting... but when both companies already have a luxury brand selling $80k vehicles, the market just has to ask: Why?

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No... The costs from the agreement are not coming out of 1st quarter earnings. The entire costs are not even coming out of 2006 earnings:

This isn't an accounting trick from what I can tell. It's just a matter of how/when GM has to write off and pay the amount. Instead of taking the hit in one lump sum, GM gets to pay it out in three different installments. I'll go ahead and assume GM will have a loss when it reports 3rd Quarter earnings.

A long long time ago, in a far away land, GM thought they could position SAAB as a direct step above Saturn/Opel. SAAB would be considered the "Luxury divison" of Saturn/Opel. They even attempted an experiment by merging dealerships together (Wasn't that in the far away land of Canada?) Maybe GM is revisiting that idea?

I personally think this car is amazing... I'm not worried about quality since it is hand-built next to Bentleys in Dresden. I was behind one when going through a Starbucks drive-thru over the weekend. It actually made me want the Lucerne instead though... Absolutely correct... which is why I approve of Buick's slow transition to premium/luxury status.

Lucerne & DTS were recalled for faulty power steering hoses. Here's where it was posted: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...wtopic=7784&hl=

There's just something about any type of Transformer reference that I have to show respect to.