VenSeattle

I wonder why????? They're not just giving the Tundra away down in Texas... According to the advertisement from Don Davis Toyota in DFW they're offering $8,000 off Sequoias, $7,000 off Tundras, $6,500 off 4Runners, $4,000 off Camrys, and $4,000 off FJ Cruisers. Even the cheap Corolla (and Matrix) has a $3,500 discount (over 20% off MSRP.) A good point to mention, those prices include Toyota Manufacturer rebates. Yep, Toyota is offering rebates. I wonder what Toyota will offer next year to maintain market share?

While having my layover at DFW airport, I noticed Don Davis Toyota was already offering $4,000 off 2008 Camrys. That can't be a good sign for still fairly new Camry. The new Malibu may not beat the Camry & Accord hand over fist, but it is now a legitimate alternative to them. That alone makes GM competitive and a posable threat. ....... As a side note, Classic Buick was only offering $2,400 off the 2008 LaCrosse, which included the $1,000 rebate. Interesting.

Long day at work... My mistake.

Exactly smallchevy... At least GM stated both sets of numbers (before adjusted selling days and after.) Did Toyota? No.

Wait a minute? Percentages weren't adjusted for the extra selling day. Doesn't Toyota normally do so? It doesn't appear they did this month. It appears sales were actually flat. 26 selling days in Oct'07 compared to 25 selling days in Oct'06: Total sales in Oct'07 197,592/26 = 7599.69 Total sales in Oct'06 189,011/25 = 7560.44 Actual Sales increase/decrease: +.005

I wonder if fleet sales were up?

You're posting here aren't you? You're included when someone else groups or stereotypes "C&G members." Reread all the comments in this topic for reference. Several members (and GM fans) on C&G disagree with FOG's opinion, so your stretch was too thin. In general, I wasn't targeting you to be critical, but just to remind people that most opinions on C&G differ greatly, even with the GM fans. We've had topics discussing "What would you do if you ran GM", "Which Brands Should Go", "Should Rick Stay?", and thousands of topics discussing various car reviews. Many think Bias and many don't. These topics usually cover a complete spectrum without the assistance of some martyr trying to be the lone voice of reason dispelling the community’s observations while condemning the board as a single close-minded think-tank or committee.

Everyone is entitled to their individual opinion. Just because one person may feel this way, it doesn't mean everyone on C&G feels this way. In general, please refrain from stereotyping remarks. This is a rather diverse community.

The Seville alone wouldn't warrant a shift deletion. All three were out of production in 2005, which was also when the plant was revamped for the next-gen G-Platform vehicles. It was a perfect time to delete a shift. GM doesn't need the same amount of workers as it did in 1970 to compete in the US market. Even the most profitable companies "retrench" where there are unnecessary expenses that can be eliminated. It's just good business practice. The whole point is that the timing isn't really because of DTS/Lucerne sales. The timing is because of the renegotiated Union contracts.

Yes. Those are all good points. The G Platform has been in production for 14-15 years. It is on the 2nd generation of vehicles. Most platforms last two generations and are then replaced. The generations for the G-Platform just run on an old school/staggered GM time line. The Aurora went two generations on the G-Platform. The Deville/DTS are on the 2nd generation. The Lucerne is actually the LeSabre/Park Avenue's 2nd generation on this platform. Riviera, Seville, and Bonneville only lasted one generation on the G-Platform. Shantanu - If you haven't been in a DTS in 4 years, then you have missed the new interior. It is very nice and equal to its pricetag. The Platinum Edition is Jaw Dropping. Let's be honest. GM needed to make these cut-backs at Hamtramck way before now... probably back in 2005 after the Seville and Bonneville died. The new contract finally allows GM to do so. One shift probably could have handled the production of the DTS and Lucerne from the 2006 model year onward.

YEAH.... and the EPA changes had the same effect on hybrids too. Those indications that you mention were due to the previous EPA ratings. The new ratings are actually much closer to the a hybrid's real-world economy. The 20/22 MPG for the Yukon Hybrid are based on the new EPA ratings which mean they should be much closer to the real world economy than the ratings of previous hybrids in years past.

I believe the Lucerne Super will have a late intro in Summer/Fall 2008. It allows Buick to stretch the Super roll-out in between the Enclave and the LaCrosse replacement debut.

I don't think so! :AH-HA_wink: Maybe not where you're at... but it blends in quite well with the Urban Safari up here! I say it's perfectly camouflaged!

The interior color scheme looks good, but need different materials. Outside of the canvas roof, I wouldn't notice it's a concept without it being pointed out.

It works... can't quite figure out why or how... but it works. So, it gets a thumbs up!

The interior makes me want to go vegan... Bllaaaahhh!

I had to smile when I saw the pics. This took some imagination. I think it's pretty cool.

I actually like this. I can see the Astra winning over compact tuners. I think GM finally got it right with Astra. The tuner crowd is a large legitimate market after all, and GM doesn't have a lot of presence in that arena. It's good for GM to finally have a compact car that can fit the part. It's also under the correct brand for the job! Bravo GM!

Here's something that might help. It's through Sept 2007. It contains other data as well... http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

I imagine CMG, BrewSwillis, Dodgefan, etc would appreciate a more positive Chrysler LLC-based article... I actually read this in the USA Today while on vacation and thought of them! :AH-HA_wink: It has some good information on the decisions recently made. One thing for sure, it gives hope to Chrysler LLC since the dealers are supporting the changes.

Dealers finally feel heard at Chrysler By Sharon Silke Carty, USA TODAY link to Original Article Chrysler dealers are "more optimistic than we've been in the last 20 years," says John Schenden, who owns Pro Chrysler Jeep in Denver and serves as a spokesman for dealers. Chrysler dealers have a new outlook about their business, an emotion many say they haven't faced in decades: optimism. With new leadership in place — including Jim Press, a former top Toyota executive — struggling Chrysler is set to make a rapid recovery, dealers say. They're even embracing the idea that Chrysler has to reduce its number of dealers and offer fewer models, moves that in the past would have been expected to stir up controversy. "As a dealer body, we are more optimistic than we've been in the last 20 years," says John Schenden, owner of Pro Chrysler Jeep in Denver and a member of Chrysler's dealer council. Chrysler recently became an American company again, after nine years partnering with German automaker Daimler. Private-equity firm Cerberus took over as majority owner in August and quickly changed the leadership structure. Within weeks, Chrysler recruited two top executives from Toyota: Press, who had been president of Toyota North America and the highest-ranking American in the company, and Deborah Wahl Meyer, who headed advertising for Lexus, Toyota's luxury division. Dealers say the new management is showing a willingness to listen to their concerns, and they believe the automaker will follow through on promises to make the company more customer-focused. As Chrysler's problems have mounted, dealers have shouldered a significant amount of stress dealing with excess inventory and competition among themselves. Regaining dealer confidence is a top priority for Chrysler, Press says. It's no secret that Chrysler, which has the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands, has to trim its dealer body. It has 3,700 dealers across the country competing against each other for sales and has been talking for years about reducing the number of dealers. Chrysler is the fourth-largest-selling carmaker in the USA. By comparison, Toyota, which is the second-largest U.S. seller and also has three brands, has 1,400 dealers in the USA. Press says creating "a bond of respect and trust with our dealers" will help the automaker "do a lot of these tough things together." "The dealers will play a huge role in driving this process," he says. "They are the customer. They will be in front of us in leading the way." Under DaimlerChrysler, Chrysler was forcing dealers to take vehicles they couldn't sell. It also handed out big bonuses to dealers who met stiff quotas, and those who couldn't meet the quotas got nothing. That left dealers competing with each other for sales, undercutting each other on prices and hurting profit margins. Viva Las Vegas Earlier this month in Las Vegas, dealers met for the first time with Nardelli, Press and Meyer. Chrysler says about 75% of its dealers showed up, the highest attendance at a dealer meeting in 10 years. Dealers left the meeting saying they felt as if, for the first time in years, they were being heard. It didn't take much to impress the group, just one little change in the meeting format. Rather than submitting questions to the executives on index cards, a process which left dealers wondering if their more controversial questions were left out, a couple of microphones were set up in the room, and dealers were invited to walk up and fire away. "Usually those things appear to be somewhat staged," says Ken Zangara, a Chrysler dealer in Albuquerque. Dealers "asked questions for about two hours. It went on and on, and they answered every single question face to face." "Everybody's heard the words before, but it's how they're said," Schenden says. "Bob Nardelli and Jim Press gave us the words, but they did it with such a passion and conviction and believability. That's something we haven't had in 20 years." At issue: Inventory control Inventory control was among dealers' top concerns, Zangara says. Last year, Chrysler found itself with thousands of unsold cars and trucks sitting on parking lots around the Detroit area. The excess cars were built without orders from dealers in an attempt to keep factories pumping out product. Dealers were pressured by Chrysler sales managers into taking cars and trucks they didn't want. When a vehicle comes to a dealership, the dealer buys it from the automaker and begins paying a loan on it until it's sold. So dealers are motivated to keep their inventories as thin as possible. "They assured us they're not going to do that anymore," Zangara says. Press says Chrysler is slashing production to get inventory more closely aligned with demand. Next year, the automaker will cut about 100,000 vehicles from production. Nearly 85,000 vehicles are being cut from the fourth-quarter production schedule. The difference in being private The decision to trim fourth-quarter production took about seven minutes, Press says, despite the fact that it meant cutting about $1 billion out of that quarter's cash flow. "In our situation financially, and with all the things that are going on, that's a tough decision to make," Press says. In a publicly owned company, that kind of decision could take months. "And here this happened within minutes. It was the right thing to do, and it was done." Press says the automaker is studying its model lineup and looking to eliminate models that are competing with one another. "We have models that overlap, where we've got two or three vehicles that serve the same market segment or maybe the same customer, and we actually compete with each other," he says. "That's not very efficient." Still, even with plans to cut back on certain models, Schenden says he's never felt better about Chrysler. He recently bought land next to his dealership, which he will use to expand the business. "We've got the strongest team up top," Schenden says. "With that kind of confidence, I think we can do anything. People make all the difference."

Thank you PCS & the rest of you! I'm in the Bahamas on a cruise this week, so I've been out of pocket for my birthday. I'll try to catch up on all the topics when I'm back in town next week. Happy B-day to the rest of you also!

Wait until Chrysler finally cuts production and fleet sales this fall/winter... that won't be the case. Your handicap, not ours. You're the one starting a gunfight with a knife. My comment was Chevrolet Brand specific... not GM as a corporation. Look it up. Chevrolet outsells everything in the US... and Toyota isn't even close to overcoming Chevrolet in the US for Brand sales... Toyota Brand Jan-Sept 2007 sales: 1,168,505 Chevrolet Brand Jan-Sept 2007 sales: 1,748,548 All of Chrysler LLC combined Jan-Sept 2007 Sales: 1,578,823 :AH-HA_wink:

Forget production numbers... For 2006, 46% of Dodge sales were fleet. For 2006, 42% of Chrysler sales were fleet. For 2006, 21.2% of Jeep sales were fleet. 2006 Fleet Sales percentage: Chrysler Sebring sedan: 72.4% Chrysler Sebring Conv: 75.7% Chrysler Crossfire: 29.2% Chrysler PT Cruiser: 50.2% Chrysler PT Cruiser Conv: 37.8% Chrysler 300: 27.6% Chrysler T&C: 25.7% Chrysler Pacifica: 34% Chrysler Aspen: 9% Dodge Stratus: 84.6% Dodge Charger: 37.3% Dodge Magnum: 51.6% Dodge Caravan: 45.3% Dodge Caliber: 35% Dodge Nitro: 50.6% Dodge Dakota: 17.3% Dodge Durango: 37.1% Dodge Ram: 9.6% Dodge Sprinter: 36.1% Jeep Compass: 11.5% Jeep Liberty: 28.6% Jeep Grand Cherokee: 24.9% Jeep Commander: 14.5% That sinking feeling isn't your stomach, it's Chrysler LLC. New product isn't catching on, and old product is dropping like a brick, while only being propped up by fleet sales. Why do you think Chrysler LLC can cut back 100,000 vehicles from production without the dealers screaming? 2007 is even worse than 2006.

Heh... Last I checked, Chevrolet was still the #1 selling brand in the US... and its sales are growing dramatically globally... I know Chrysler LLC's sales are dropping in the US, but how are they globally????? Oh yeah... that's right. They aren't really global are they. :rotflmao: