VenSeattle

I'm going with EPS II on this one. I don't see the Invicta directly replacing LaCrosse or Lucerne... one of the reasons for the name change. It will be a premium sedan for Buick, but not in the same vein as either of them. I picture this vehicle standing on its own merits against other near luxury cars without having to play the value-card: I'm super-sized (Lucerne) or budget buy (LaCrosse).

No... You aren't the only one... However, I'm more interested in the upcoming Buick Invicta concept.

You realize you answered your own question right? The G8 may beat the Maxima in V8 form, but I expect the Maxima to perform better (significantly better given the weight) than the G8 V6.

I agree they should probably take the Escalade approach with naming this vehicle, such as Escalade ESV Escalade EXT. You'll have the Pontiac G8 Sedan... Then Pontiac G8 (fill in the blank) for the truck... If the GTX doesn't give warm fuzzies... then how about GTU? U is for Ute proposed: G8 GTX G8 GTU G8 GT-Ute

I submitted the name GTX. I'm sure it's been submitted already... I didn't put my name with it though... I don't need to be on Pontiac's mailing list. My train of thought was that the "coupe" of the G8 would be GTO meaning 'Gran Turismo Omologato' So the truck version could be GTC for 'Gran Turismo Camion' however the 'C' would be very confusing in the US market. So, I defaulted to GTX since it crosses over several markets.

I think you'd like it. I went to the Chicago Auto Show to see the Lucerne when it debuted. Yes... that was the main reason why I went to the show.

Don't even... I have a fondness for Nissan/Inifiniti. Especially Infiniti. I'd probably choose an M or G over the Maxima if I went that way, but I'm not sold on the opinion that RWD=better. Deciding on the G & M would derive from other factors. As for Hyundai... Never... but that's beside the point. The Azera and Genesis aren't direct competitors to the G8. If you believe they are then you might as well say the LaCrosse and Lucerne are direct competitors to the G8 and merge the two brands together since you just demonstrated that they're redundant. Maxima is a premium sports/touring sedan... well, that's how it's marketed. So, the 2009 Maxima will be a direct competitor to the G8. Available options/features is a very important issue to buyers when cross-shopping competitors.

The past three Maxima Generations have been horrible IMO... The I30/I35 was what the Maxima should have been... but even then the I-Series wasn't that great. The current Maxima already puts the V6 G8 to shame in options and features. If Nissan gets it right, this might be an option for me if I don't like the LaCrosse replacement this fall.

Well, unfortunately for reality, the single wheelbased(LWB-only) minivan replaced both versions of the previous generation Caravan so Stuart's comparison is close to worthless. Honestly... look at the sales: Feb Sales/ YTD sales: Month Sales Vol % Sales CYTD Vol % Model Curr Yr Pr Yr Change Curr Yr Pr Yr Change Town & Country 11,952 11,845 1% 21,043 23,222 -9% Caravan 11,072 16,375 -32% 19,167 34,968 -45% IIRC, the latest versions of the T&C didn't include a SWB version, so that comparison is legitimate... sales appear stable... but the Caravan's???

We'll see in 5 years which brands have survived the downturn in the US auto industry... I'm standing by mine. I would like Pontiac and Mercury to stick around, but the actions at GM and Ford say otherwise. As for Chrysler... check the news. Jag & LR? low volume and nothing to really hold them over during the selloff. One new car will not save Jag, and its V8 is hardly competitive. Jag's competition have V6s that are more more powerful for less than $50k. Mitsubishi... no justification needed... $10 billion borrowed still hasn't given them a completely competitive line-up. VW & Suzuki... they have a chance. Subaru would be on my list also if Toyota wouldn't have recently invested in them. BTW, if I recall correctly, one or two of those "reality police" predict GM to be either bankrupt or gone soon (or at least several of GM's brands.)

Manufacturers: Mitsubishi, Chrysler LLC (it won't be around in current form much longer, as Satty mentioned) Brands: Mercury, Pontiac, Scion, Jaguar, LR Suzuki has a lifeline if small cars take off in the US as predicted. Volkswagen's up in the air. They have a chance, but their strategy is very aggressive... too much so IMO... If it's not posted already, I'll post the article for separate discussion in another forum...

GM Europe to cut more jobs at Opel unit Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:41pm EDT Link to original article FRANKFURT (Reuters) - General Motors (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Europe plans to slash around 3,000 to 5,600 jobs at its Opel plants across Europe in a drive to improve profitability and streamline production, a German magazine reported on Monday. GM Europe was in talks with labor representatives to cut jobs through severance packages and outsourcing, Auto Motor und Sport reported, citing unnamed company sources. GM Europe has a total of 55,651 employees in Europe, according to its website. It has already cut its European workforce by around a fifth. The report quoted Rainer Einenkel, head of the works council at Opel's Bochum plant in Germany, as saying that labor was examining management's extensive proposal for job cuts. According to the report Opel plants in Belgium, Germany, Spain and Britain would be affected as well as a Saab site in Sweden. A Opel spokesman confirmed there were talks with labor representatives but called the reported number of jobs to be cut "very speculative" and said the company was not planning a major restructuring or drastic job cuts. "It's about a number of measures to further increase efficiency," the spokesman said, adding that if there should be a need to reduce jobs there would be no forced layoffs. (Reporting by Nicola Leske and Jan Schwartz)

GM Europe seeks to cut 5,000 jobs: union March 11, 2008 1:16 PM ET Link to original article PARIS (Reuters) - General Motors Europe is seeking to cut about a tenth of its European workforce in a new round of cost cuts as the top U.S. car maker aims to stem steep losses in declining main auto markets. "What is on the table is a plan for 5,000 voluntary redundancies in west Europe," Jean-Marc Ruhland, a CFDT union member of the European works council at GM, told Reuters. GM Europe employs some 55,600 staff after a previous round of job cuts in the European sector which also included the closure of a PSA Peugeot Citroen plant in Britain and cuts at Ford . BMW also plans to shed jobs and Volkswagen seeks to reduce labor costs. Ruhland said some 260 jobs would go at the Strasbourg plant in eastern France, another 1,300 at Antwerp in Belgium, 900 at Bochum in Germany, 930 at Saragossa in Spain and some 300-500 at Russelsheim. labor unions from various countries will meet in Frankfurt on Thursday to coordinate actions but at the moment they are still in a negotiating phase. "We want guarantees that there will be no plant closures in west Europe until at least 2020, we want that the departure premiums will be calculated on the same basis all over Europe with the same set of safeguards," he added. GM Europe earlier this week confirmed there were talks with labor representatives but called reported numbers to be cut "very speculative." OPEL, VAUXHALL AND SAAB GM operates as Opel on continental Europe and as Vauxhall in Britain. It already reduced its European workforce by a fifth. The firm also owns Sweden's Saab brand. On February 12, General Motors Corp said it would offer a new round of buyouts to all of its U.S. factory workers as it posted a quarterly loss that underscored the pressure the top U.S. automaker faces in its slumping home market. GM's results, including a record $39 billion full-year loss, also pointed to continued risks for the automaker's turnaround from a slower U.S. economy, higher fuel costs and tighter credit conditions, others said. GM finance director and new chief operating officer Fritz Henderson said GM would look to cut costs in its European operations and could throttle back further on North American production in 2008 if the market turned weaker. The president of General Motors Europe said last week he believed the overall European market could show no growth at all this year, but the picture varied greatly between countries. "Germany is recovering, Spain and Britain are down, but Russia is booming," Carl-Peter Forster told reporters during a briefing at the Geneva motor show. Forster said that Opel had an operating margin of some 2 percent in 2007 and GM wanted to boost that. He added low profitability was not confined to Opel but was an industry-wide problem among volume carmakers in Europe due to price pressure as Asian manufacturers exported cheap cars to the continent.

Very interesting article... it's not market demand that's driving this company.

My mother cross-shopped the Legend with the Park Avenue(along with the Mazda 929). I could see Ninety-Eight customers cross-shopping the Legend also. Looking for the "next-step" in premium FWD cars. They're all FWD premium V6 sedans for their time. Years later, I cross shopped the first-gen RL with the Park Avenue Ultra... funny that. Pricing was similar. Performance (HP) was similar. Buick & Oldsmobile had more available features though (both Legend & first gen-RL.) Handling was different but not that noticeable between the Ultra/Touring and the RL.

But were you bored enough to actually watch 2 girls 1 cup?????

It's called technique... CARBIZ - Movie night sounds like fun!

Well... Those who want better MPG are willing to pay more than those who want HP. I'm joking... but honestly, it's really down to a choice between the two powertrains. The V8 is not necessarily higher end than the V6. It's just preference to some. Power isn't a premium, just an option? Sound possible?

Cadillac has felt threatened by Buick off and on their entire coexistence... Funny that.

See, My partner likes British comedies and SciFi... One gift for him has been the entire collection of "Are you Being Served" Another gift for him has been the 10 season collection of "Stargate SG1" We have Seasons 1 & 2 for the new BattleStar Galactica. We have all the episodes for "Allo Allo"... Uhm... don't ask how. IIRC they're not all out on DVD yet. As a gift from him, I received the entire collection of "Keeping Up Appearances" He seems to think I remind him of Hyacinth. Love the show... but... He is a little like Richard... well, he will be in about 20 years.

Not to mention the 5-sp auto was for RWD applications. Majority of GM's continuing 4-sp auto fleet have been FWD vehicles.

Next thing you'll know... Toyota will start its own Airline company building their own Airport terminals at airports across the world which will have the most convenient security process. They'll provide discounted Scion, Toyota, & Lexus rentals with the purchase of an airline ticket. Millions will flock to pay a premium price for a Toyota Air plane ticket and stand in line at exclusive (crowded) security checks for the Toyota Treatment leaving the rest of the airline industry to collapse upon itself as the Unions fight to keep jobs in a declining market... of course none of Toyota Air's employees will be part of a union. ....

errhhh.... I had (kind of) similar experiences when I was a teen... Both OC's & Scharmer's... However when my relationship with girls turned sexual, I knew I was gay. Denied it for quite a while, but... Experience 1 - I had a male friend who we "experimented" as a teen... He ended up dating several of my female friends. Broke their hearts (he was a rather jerk of a boyfriend to everyone.) He did make sure to call me up for one last romp before receiving his wedding invitation in the mail a week later... very long story Experience 2 - I also had a verrrryyy attractive male friend in my church during my teens that was non-sexual but swear to gaud we loved each other. He knew I had leanings, but I was struggling with it. He asked if he could kiss me once, and I declined (Short reason: If I was going to hell, I wasn't going to take someone with me. I no longer have this line of reasoning.) His feelings didn't manifest and create a huge rift in our relationship until I began dating a fairly popular girl at my church. He was crushed when he found out and acted absolutely heartbroken. He told me I was his "inspiration for remaining single" and thought I felt the same as he did. Against my wishes, we drifted apart quickly and stopped talking. He married a few short years later and didn't even invite me to the wedding. I thought I ran into him in a restaurant years down the road (after I came out and everyone knew.) We made eye contact for half a second, but then he refused to ever look my direction the rest of the time. He left soon afterwards. I've tried to keep tabs about him just to see how he's doing. It's not too hard. He's from a fairly prominent family in East Texas. currently him and his wife own a successful real estate company and are doing quite well. They seem happy on their website. If he's happy then I'm happy for him. I doubt I'll ever know now anything else. Our lives are way too different now. Observation... It's funny... almost all the girls I dated ended up "confessing" to me that they were bi-sexual or at least "thought about" playing with girls. I eventually determined that the phrase "birds of a feather" had some meaning to it. They were comfortable dating me because I would understand their feelings and vice-versa. Sexually, it was just unfulfilling for me with girls... one outstanding memory: WAY TOO MUCH WORK! Hands, mouth, legs, etc... all worn out and never felt like I accomplished anything. As for the emotional side, I had several girlfriends but never felt anything different than a deep respect, closeness, and friendship for any of them. Sex was always awkward. I do identify beauty when I see it. Still, to this day, I think Sarah McLachlan is one of the most beautiful women in the world: But to this one... I've seen thousands of guys that I couldn't make up my mind over :AH-HA_wink:

Well, who says it's diesel technology (which GM has)? My Reasoning... In light of GM recently cancelling their HFV8 program, I think it's BMW's V8 mated to the hybrid powertrains they've been working on together. Especially now that Mercedes Benz is coming out with a Hybrid S-Class that gets 30MPG.