VenSeattle

Here are some more pics:

If the Royaum came over to the US instead of Buick receiving the Lucerne, it would have been torn apart. It's beautiful to look at, but the styling and proportions are outdated compared to the Chrysler LX sedans. The VT platform and Lucerne's G-Platform are about the same age as well. At least the Lucerne caters to a different market altogether. It doesn't make a half-way attempt to compete against the LX vehicles. (The lucerne is also less expensive than this vehicle could have ever been imported and sold here for.) Go back and reread some GTO reviews and just change it to Buick. The media would rip it apart (not to mention several GM fans here.) If Buick gets a RWD sedan in the US, pray for it to be on Sigma or Zeta.

They're making room for the subcompact Fit.

[joking + sarcasm] Eh... after reading all the posts, it seems Pontiac has two naming traditions: Prefix = Grand Suffix = Bird To uphold tradition, why not have Pontiac rename the G6 to Grand Bird. Instead of the "Screaming Chicken" painted on the hood, Pontiac can put an extended middle finger. However, there could be a Grand Bird SC package that includes the Screaming Chicken on the hood, trunk, and side doors... but the added ground effects and wheel covers would have to remain body colored to follow previous Pontiac sport package tradition. :P [/joking + sarcasm] I voted for G6... The other names just don't fit or carry too much baggage. I view the G6 as a transitional name/vehicle to help Pontiac break away from its tarnished image. It should work if Pontiac would just upgrade the interior.

Oh come on 68... the 2003 Regal GS had an MSRP of $28,235.00. The LaCrosse is superior in almost every way for about the same MSRP price. Camries, Altimas, Accords etc can all go up to $27k-$30k+ when maxed out. The LaCrosse (with the employee discount) is perfectly priced to match the mentioned V6 competitors. Even Chrysler's own FWD Sebring sedan maxes out at $27k. Now THAT is absurd. :rolleyes: Here's my thing... There are obviously those on C&G who have 300/LX envy. Any vehicle/platform that doesn't equal that one car/platform is going to be a source of contention for them. Fact of the matter is, not everyone wants a 300 or Charger. Those people aren't stupid, ignorant, or dumb for wanting something other than a 300 or Charger. It's about taste and preference. Calling GM stupid for not discontinuing EVERY FWD VEHICLE to create a horde of RWD cars that compete against two sedans is also absurd. Main reason is the sales volume... The 300, Magnum, & Charger "technically" have an exclusive market by being RWD. Although sales are good... they're not exceptional in the $20k-$35k market. In fact, for cars that range from $20k-$35k, their individual sales pale to several others. The 300 might sale 140k units this year... that's not spectacular. Sales should be much higher (and waiting lists runneth over) if that much demand for RWD vehicles were present. Basically, demand for the LX cars hasn't even exceeded the LH vehicles they replaced. If the LX vehicles can not exceed LH demand, then what type of market is there for RWD vehicles to compete in from Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW, Mitsubishi, Hyundai/Kia, etc... Do you or any manufacturer want to rush out to join in dividing 300,000 annual sales between 15 different RWD vehicles competing from different manufacturers? True, there are the loyalists of each manufacturer (such as several GM fans here who want a 300/Charger but refuse to buy a Chrysler or other competitor's product) that are in the woodwork waiting for their favorite manufacturer to make a RWD sedan. BUT! GM has to figure out how many?Are those in the woodwork already willing buyers of current FWD vehicles? Mostly. Several of those who are not willing to buy a FWD GM vehicle have already bought a CTS or STS. There are some who can't afford a Cadillac and are holding out for a $20k-$30k RWD sedan. Many RWD GM fans just purchase pre-owned vehicles and are not going to purchase a new vehicle regardless if it’s RWD, FWD, or AWD. Then there are the GM fans who have already jumped ship and have bought a 300, Magnum, or Charger.Tricky situation. Tricky to figure out the actual market potential for mainstream RWD vehicles. Tricky to determine how much is needed to spend on the project and then justify the expense. A lot of the people here on C&G demand GM to build a RWD Chevrolet or Pontiac sedan with every conceivable feature available on Cadillac, BMW, or Mercedes and have it standard for around $20k. I'm telling you now: IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN! That's NOT a realistic expectation/demand at all! Even the 300 starts around $24,000 with manual A/C, 4-sp Automatic transmission, 4-speaker sound system, 190hp V6, and cloth seats. ABS, Traction Control, and Stability Control are still an extra charge (comes grouped in a Stability Control Program package)! Not impressive at all for $24,000.00. I’m personally a “new car” consumer that doesn’t really care if it’s FWD or RWD. I openly admit that I'm one of the reasons GM is hesitant to invest in a RWD platform for sedans. They know I'd be perfectly happy with a large sedan built on Chi (a rumored platform that is apparently an updated FWD/AWD version of the G-Platform.) Why go to the expense and create a new RWD architecture when you already have a good foundation (G-Platform) for vehicles that will continue to make your customers happy?

Kind of funny that the stats don't match the Mercury Monterey or Pontiac Montana.

Wow... all new Eclipse is released (I think last Spring?) and sales finally rise 2.1%. Hopefully the Raider can do better... if not... Mitsubishi is doomed.

Well, by upgrade do you mean bigger? or more powerful? In that case a Chevrolet Impala puts the regular Cadillac CTS to shame... but that's not the case. However, the Impala is also bigger than the LaCrosse and should have more interior space... the Malibu is just not in the same class as the LaCrosse. There's more to being a premium sedan than size or power. The LaCrosse comes with a longer warranty, more available features, and a quieter ride. I haven't been inside the Impala yet, but people are still complaining about the lack of quality materials and hard plastics (same with Malibu)... that's not the case in the LaCrosse. As for HP/fuel economy being an "upgrade" trademark... Luxury brands are the worst offenders in Gas Guzzling.

Eh... Pontiac Montana Pontiac Monterey Simple mistake... :unsure:

I know of the features that the reviewer brought up, but what features are you referring to that are missing from the DTS Performance that makes it a deal breaker? (by features I'm not referring to "wrong platform" RWD/FWD/AWD argument)

The DTS styling (inside and out) is growing on me. I've seen it in person and really think that I could be happy with it if I ever decide to step up from Buick... However, for the price, I think I'll be VERY happy with the Lucerne. I can't wait to test drive both. The DTS received some very good compliments in the article. The written acknowledgement that the DTS is considerably less expensive than an LS430 (yet still comparable) was nice to see.

I agree with Northstar... the products coming out of GM-Daewoo look promising and the next gen Aveo looks better suited for the targeted market in the US.

Base LaCrosse CX (no options) MSRP: $23,495.00 Emp Dis: $19,943.00 Lacrosse CXS (no options) MSRP: $28,995.00 Emp Dis: $24,811.48 A base LaCrosse with any desirable options will be around $22,000.00 with the Employee discount. A fully loaded LaCrosse CXS's MSRP is around $33,000.00... $29,000.00 with the Employee Discount. Unless you're buying a LaCrosse with ABSOLUTELY NO OPTIONS, the transaction prices are going to range from around $22k-$29k.

http://www2.naias.com/main.asp?sectionID=157&visitorType=1

Check out the article and slide show... not what you'd expect :) http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2005/01/10/...l_0110feat.html

Here are some #s for comparison between the LX & LH platform... I chose 1995 & 2001 for comparisons in fairness because both are about 2-3 years after their introduction (LH debuted as 1993 models and then remodeled in 1998/1999) As for the lack of Charger sales history... I can definitely agree that the Charger will continue to increase in sales, but I have a feeling the sales increase will come at some expense to the Chrysler 300's V6 powered Base & Touring trims) 2005 estimated sales (based on 8 months of sales): 300: 141,151 Magnum: 59,692 Charger: 62,664 (August sales x12 - new vehicle) total: 263,507 1995 Sales: New Yorker: 23,624 LHS: 29,418 Concorde: 60,613 Vision: 29,821 Intrepid: 178,679 Total: 322,155 2001 Sales: 300M: 36,583 LHS: 8,852 Concorde: 32,331 Intrepid: 109,098 Total: 186,864 as for the best year for the LH sedans... I believe it was 1994: New Yorker: 34,283 LHS: 44,739 Concorde: 85,636 Vision: 31,271 Intrepid: 155,170 Total: 351,099

Fly's post sums up my opinion.

Somew spyware checkers will delete cookies. Do you have one set up that runs regularly/daily?

Here's an interesting link with Minimum wage listings for the states... http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm Yep, WA state min wage is $7.35 an hour.

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Link: http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.a...d=2005090149907

They didn't come close: Toyota: 9.5% Nissan: 10.6% Honda: 18.6% you really have to wonder who their sources are... or if they even have any. There's no excuse for being off by this much in their predictions if they have reliable resources.

A lot of the media must be extremely disappointed. They were "predicting" Toyota to have a 30% increase in sales... such as quoted in this article.

Oh... you mean right before it became the best selling large car in the US? :P