VenSeattle

The 3800 won't be phased out until GM can guarantee that it can replace the 3800 with something that won't impact its CAFE. The only reasonable answer is either the OHV HV family or the DOHC HF family (or maybe both) will be getting technology that will allow for an increase in each engine’s average MPG. I don't know what it will be, but MPG will need to improve before the 3800 is put to rest. GM still hasn't debuted DOD or 3 Valves per cylinder on the OHV HV family correct?

Thanks for the background info on Isuzu griffon. A lot of people on C&G don't seem to realize what Isuzu & Suzuki (both GM partners) are like outside of the US. They only know them by their limited US reputations.

Honestly... it's not as if GM couldn't sell its investment to anyone... Toyota could really be viewed as helping out Fuji more than GM. It's never gentle on your stock price or market perception when an investor walks away. Yes, GM has its issues at the moment, but if the stock wasn’t sold to a reputable investor like Toyota, then some could speculate something could also be wrong at Fuji.

My problem with Subaru's current direction is that they're moving too far up-market... well, attempting to. They haven't succeeded yet. That's why I think SAAB would be a good brand for them. Let Subaru serve as a mainstream division while they use their premium ideas to rebuild SAAB as a luxury brand above Subaru. Even selling them on the same showroom floor wouldn't be a problem for many areas.

As of September's sales report, GM has sold 26,548 STSs. That's better than the new Acura RL, new Lexus GS, and new Infiniti M-Series. Obviously the public approves of the STS. The V-Series will only increase the STS's status, personal appeal, and sales. As for the lower than expected XLR sales (3,101), I still believe the 7k annual sales goal is actually a target once the V-Series becomes available. GM hasn't shown very much concern over current sales in comparison to expectations. The V-Series will spur interest in the XLR and encourage potential buyers to test drive both versions. I'm sure many will want the V-Series, but several will also find the regular XLR's performance satisfying, and the price more reasonable. The XLR is a halo vehicle and is serving its purpose VERY well. Wealthy people don't mind being seen in a $75k Cadillac roadster. I think they'll be very accepting of a $100k performance version. The XLR is a worthy vehicle. It is quality. Roadster season is winding down for the winter, so I suspect the XLR-V to help really boost sales come Spring.

Eh... I'm not concerned about Buick/Pontiac/GMC disappearing anytime soon... GM can not afford to pay off all those dealerships for closing their doors. I think BPG will be able to sustain 1,000,000 annual sales with what they're getting in the near future. I'm sure that's enough to keep them profitable between the three of them. Even if it's not, that's too much market share to just walk away from in the next 5 years. I seriously think GM would declare Bankruptcy and re-org before they lose another 1,000,000 annual sales. I can see GM selling Saab to Subaru. I think that would be best for GM, SAAB & even for Subaru.

Well, I live in Acura country. Acura is very popular in the Seattle area. I have an Acura dealership within 2 miles of my house. I see tons of TLs & TSXs on the road but hardly EVER see the new RL. I can only assume that this should be one of the larger RL markets since Acura is so popular up here. I see way more STSs, BMW 5-series, & Lexus GSs on the road than the RL.

Well... Fly might have meant Mazda also... The RL looks like a mid-sized Mazda if you're not completely analyzing the parking lot.

Yeah... as Northstar stated, we've seen the upgraded interior for the STS-v. The quality problems have been addressed. The STS-v interior is awesome.

Exactly... It shows that GM has hit the bull's-eye with Cadillac's new direction. This is the market segment Cadillac belongs in. It's great to see Cadillac have a presence, instead of just a coincidental appearance.

Now that GM has previewed some of the new SUVs to the market, there will be people holding out for the new models. This even goes for the trucks. The new trucks will not look identical to the SUVs but they will be receiving the same refinements.

The prices look appropriate. Even now, Cadillac vehicles are still priced thousands below their direct competitors.

I just noticed that the Denali Steering Wheel has wood around the rim as well.

BPG dealerships should be jumping up and down for joy across the country... Picture walking into a BPG dealership with a GMC Yukon Denali, Buick Lucerne CXS, & Pontiac Solstice all sharing the showroom floor. Fantastic.

Uhm... you forgot to account for the SAE changes... For 2006, the RL is: 290 horsepower @ 6200 rpm 256 lbs-ft. of torque @ 5000 rpm For 2006, TL is now 258hp... down from 270hp. The reason for calling the RL a flop is: * The new RL is being outsold by almost every one of its competitors * It’s not meeting Honda's own first full year sales expectations * It’s not winning reviews The competition is fierce. All Tier 1 luxury brands have more powerful RWD V8 sedans with AWD available.

The RL is a flop but the media won't admit it. A 290hp V6 just doesn't cut it for the $50k market. SH-AWD hasn't helped too much in the comparisons either. Other AWD $50k vehicles have been rated higher.

I can't tell if the steering-wheel is 4 or 3 spoke (pic too small) My guess... Audi A2?

Exterior: 2003 ION: 2005 ION: Interior: 2003 ION: 2005 ION: The dramatic exterior changes, upgraded interior materials, new seats, & new steering wheel all combine to a substantive effort by GM to help increase the ION's appeal. It's been decades since GM responded this quickly to help correct flaws in an all new vehicle. The instrumentation can not be moved without a COMPLETE interior redesign. That's far beyond anything substantive for a 2-year-old vehicle. Besides, as I said in the previous post, it's really a preference than a flaw of the ION. For those who do not want the ION's center instrumentation, they can shop the Cobalt. GM has already made it clear that the center instrumentation will not last more than one generation. That should make you happy enough that it didn't even take a full model life cycle for GM to figure that out. Give credit where credit is due... GM in the 1990's would have never exhibited this much effort to correct a flawed vehicle.

GM's drop in sales is not just about "pull-ahead"... The Dealership lots were empty for a good part of September. Once the lots are full again, things will look much different... As for the Oldsmobile/Buick comparison: There are MAJOR differences to the NEW Buick & the then NEW Oldsmobile: 1) Oldsmobile dramatically abandoned its loyal buyers with the Intrigue & Aurora. The LaCrosse & Lucerne do NO SUCH thing. 2) Both the Intrigue & Aurora brought higher MSRP prices to Oldsmobile ON TOP OF One price shopping: 1997 Base MSRP: 1997 Eighty-Eight - $22,595 1997 Cutlass Supreme - $18,950 1998 Base MSRP: 1998 Aurora - $36,160 1998 Intrigue - $20,890 Even though the 2001 Aurora lowered the MSRP of Aurora closer to the Eighty-Eight's (2001 Aurora MSRP: $30,619) It was still too little too late. GM simply tried to move Oldsmobile upscale too fast. That's not the case with Buick. The LaCrosse is the same price as the Century & Regal, while the Lucerne is the same price as a LeSabre & base Park Avenue. Bench seats are still offered in both for the traditionalists and many styling cues (inside & out) have been updated without appearing foreign to the typical Buick buyer (unlike Oldsmobile's.) 3) During the 1990's Oldsmobile was a stand alone division competing internally with Buick for the same premium buyer with similarly equipped models. Buick is now a division partially supported by Pontiac-GMC and does not have another GM division to compete with for premium buyers. There are some other differences, but those are the main ones that come to mind. *********** Something else to mention, the LaCrosse is selling better than the Intrigue ever did. I'm willing to bet the Lucerne will be selling 4x the Aurora's best year by the end of 2006.

I agree... consider that the new Cobalt, Impala, & even 2007 Tahoe all have a similar look & feel to them. It makes you wonder if the Malibu was entirely developed separate from the rest of Chevrolet's future projects (especially the interior.) Hopefully the 2007/8 Malibu replacement will complete the revolution.

Here's another pic of the LaCrosse gauges... When illuminated, they're more attractive IMO...

Remember the X-Type is even more expensive than the Lucerne... It would be better to compare those interiors. I think the Lucerne beats the X-Type in almost every regard. For the price of the LaCrosse, you get a lot more than people give it credit for.

Guys... Chevrolet is NOT a "premium" mainstream brand. Chevrolet is a mainstream (catch-all) brand. Chevrolet has some exceptional niche vehicles to spice up its average line-up: SSR, HHR, Corvette, SS-trim, etc... etc... I agree with the original post. All Chevrolet vehicles now successfully accomplish what they are intended to do: provide attractive (but inoffensive), solid, reliable, quality transportation for the average entry-level to middle-class consumer. They aren't meant to be pseudo-luxury vehicles or premium boutique alternatives (exception to the niche vehicles & SS trim) to mainstream vehicles. You guys really expect too much from each and every brand. GM is to be all things to all people.... not just Chevrolet. The line has to be drawn somewhere for Chevrolet so the other brands can begin. I'm not talking about suppressing Chevrolet either. The SS trims provide all the attributes of the same vehicle but with a more upscale/sporty finish. That's perfectly in-line with what Chevrolet should deliver. But stop expecting a Chevrolet worthy of a Cadillac Crest but with a bow-tie (such as Avalon to Lexus, or Accord to Acura). The closest thing that comes to this is the Corvette, but even the XLR is a step above the Corvette in many respects. Let Chevrolet be Chevrolet. Once you out-grow Chevrolet and move on towards Saturn, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Saab, or HUMMER... be happy for everything Chevrolet offered and provided you over the years.

Eh... empowah, you're just being a tad bit TOO critical of the LaCrosse. I know you're aware that most of the things mentioned were just opinions (such as the areas that look "dated" and the seat comfort), but the Jaguar steering wheel is even less attractive than the one in the LaCrosse. The Jag's buttons are just as small as the LaCrosse's and the door handle on the X-Type is also just a door handle. The tragedy in this is that the X-Type gets away with the same flaws and is about $10k more than the LaCrosse.