VenSeattle

Well, cars between $27k-$35k are still in mainstream territory. I agree that Buick needs more exclusive vehicles, but the Lucerne has features that are usually reserved for exclusive vehicles. It's a good compromise until Zeta or what ever else can come around.

It doesn't seem to look like chrome to me.

[post="28266"][/post]

How about this... actual size...

OMG.....don't tell me you are trying to compare a BMW inline-6cyl engine to the 3800?

BMW's sixes in ANY configuration are some of the smoothest, if not THE smoothest, most refined, and energetic engines on the market today.

THAT's the tell-tale of a true luxury car....not HP....and the base Lucerne won't come close to having a refined-enough powertrain to tempt ANY of those "import" luxury-car fans.

That was his point I believe.....

[post="28278"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thank you for agreeing with me that Horse Power isn't everything. For $42,000, the HP on the base 5-series was even worse than the up coming $27,000 Lucerne. Other factors made the 5-Series worth its price. That was my point. I personally believe that the Lucerne also has qualities that make it a luxury car. It's definitely worth the price.

Several HUNDRED THOUSAND people have recently purchased the 3800 in cars between $30k-$40k and are VERY happy with it. I don't think it will turn away any LeSabre owners or non-traditional potentials who actually get into the vehicle and test drive it. i recommend test driving the Lucerne before saying the Lucerne won't deliver a refined experience in the V6 models. Everything seems to indicate that the 3800 isn't noticeable. Check out the thread that the CX Lucerne is quieter than the current Lexus ES330.


I Edited this because I came across a little too bitter. OC is usually a reasonable person. :P

The Lucerne will be quieter that is until the old 3800 is worked up into it's rpm band where it will make more noise than most Japanese V6's

[post="28190"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You fail to acknowledge that the Lucerne also has more sound deadening technology than most Japanese cars. The media & the people on this board have taken the opportunity to criticize the 3800 even under normal driving conditions. I'm glad the test was on a CX. That guarantees it was performed with the 3800. I thought that would keep naysayers from take punches at the 3800’s roughness for once... however it still happens.

Chrysler.

[post="28229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:cheers:

Chrysler 300 - 2.7L V-6 190 HP

Is there a midget with a camera involved somewhere? Sometimes, it's just better not to know... :ph34r:

As a Buick owner, I receive a magazine by Buick every season called "The Style Review." (I definitely look forward to it ^_^ )

I just received the Fall 2005 issue and on the cover is a Lucerne. My first thought was "That grille looks like it's all chrome..." but I immediately rejected the idea as light reflecting off of the Lucerne's glossy black grille. So I looked inside. By page 16, there was no doubt about it. Both of the Lucernes pictured have chrome grilles.

I scanned in the cover and page 16 so you guys can check it out. (as a side note, they also have an article titled “Seattle on our Minds” on pages 26-29 where they're touring Seattle in a Park Avenue! How cool! Can’t wait to read it!)


Cover (obviously a Lucerne CXS):



Page 16 (Apparently a Lucerne CX or CXL)

I'd wait until your parents see them & drive them before thinking they've been written off. :)

I hear that in order to keep costs down, GM is only putting an Ecotec in it for the first three years, with a supercharged option appearing as part of a MCE.  Also, it will be retro and therefore only have a 3-spd transmission.  Automatic only.

[post="28084"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You forgot about the rumored Hybrid option for the Ecotec. :lol:

I few interior pics taken by a friend of mine at the Texas State Fair this weekend (plus the window sticker http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif). I was shocked that the SS has the Wood trim interior as part of the package:

A car with a 3.8L 195 HP pushrod V6 does not qualify as a luxuray car. It also brings down the value of the V8 powered versions. GM really goofed on this one. GM really really cannot afford more slipups like this.

[post="27900"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Uhm... The 2006 BMW 525 has 215 hp and starts at $42,500. Last year (yes 2004MY) It only had 184 hp.

Are you saying that a 2004 BMW 5-series with a 184hp I-6 isn't a luxury car? It was $42k without any options?


Horse power is not everything.

I'm waiting for someone to come on here and say "Of Course the Lucerne was quieter. They were talking to a GM engineer..." :rolleyes:

Regardless of all those who have nothing positive to say about the Buick Lucerne, Good Job GM. Congrats on showing that the "Quiet-Tuning" effort is paying off. B)

Well I hope they do something about the base engine in the LaCrosse/Allure.  I was at a dealership today and one drove by me on a test drive, the thing sounded like a wheezy 4 cyl.  Just awful.

[post="27878"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I really think you're nitpicking too much. There isn't anything "vulgar" about the sound of the 3800 in the LaCrosse/Allure. It may be a little louder or sound different in comparison to whatever your perception has lead you to believe, but no one could be that dense, narrow minded, or snobbish to literally become offended by the way the 3800 sounds (inside or outside of the car.)

"Awful" is just way too strong of a term to be justified.

Buick's sedan line-up for almost 10 years has been Regal/Century & LeSabre/Park Avenue, so the LaCrosse & Lucerne do make a full revision of sedan remodels. LaCrosse equals Century & Regal. Lucerne Equals LeSabre & Park Avenue. The comment has nothing to do with adding an additional sedan or continuing refreshes/updates for existing models.

This car doesn't stand a chance against any Lexus or import. It looks like a Chevy, has the dashboard of a Chevy, it has 4 speeds and a dated, weak V-6, and has less passenger and cargo room than either predecessor and some actual competitors.

[post="27736"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I can understand why you may not like it, but I seriously suggest sitting in it and trying it out before thinking it'll be a complete failure. The interior space is more than enough & so is the trunk. Not everyone shopping in the large car market is looking for the "largest" vehicle out there. Besides, against imports (Avalon) & Lexus (ES330), the Lucerne's trunk is still larger.

I don't see LeSabre or Park Avenue owners left wanting from their previous car compared to the new Lucerne. I know I'm not. In pics, the Impala & Lucerne's dash may look similar, but the Lucerne's interior is far better executed and more upscale in person.

When I went to Dallas last time, Hertz had nothing but Camrys, Avalons, & Kia Amantis available. All I could do was roll my eyes. I still go with Avis. Amazingly, they didn't have a LaCrosse available. I ended up with a LeSabre. It'll take some time for rental fleets to impact resale value... the abused rental cars have to trickle down to "used car market" before they start showing quality/reliability symptoms. I give it 3 years if they continue to up their Fleet sales at this rate.

Who would've thought Saturn would shape up to become one of GM's strongest brands?

[post="27711"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, eventually... their current line-up is still dreadful. I forgot how much so until I looked at the website: ION, VUE, & Relay... ugh.

Doesn't surprise me... what did everyone expect when the domestics stepped away from the fleet market? The Fleets have to buy their cars from some where. It's not as if "fleet sales" is just a magical dumping ground in fairy land that Ford & GM can just choose a number of vehicles and then "poof" they magically have a "fleet buyer" for that certain amount of vehicles. It's a real and legitimate market. Less profitable and image degrading (until the imports make it respectable), but still a legitimate market.

If I had to buy one today (10/10/2005): Buick Lucerne CXS. I'd have to place an order for it.

Interesting that the Chevrolet HHR alone might come close to matching Toyota's Scion division as a whole.

This conversation/discussion/debate has just seriously degraded beyond belief in the last few posts...

And if thats Socialism so be it. Capitalism is condemned by God.

[post="26123"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

heh... If you're following the New Testament:

No one is entitled to salvation. Only those who endure to the end will receive it.
Even God endorses the expulsion of those unworthy. Jews were not individually condemned but their birth right to salvation was. Jews are still eligible, but have to reapply and accept the new principles outlined in the Greek Scriptures. :P

(I'm not condemning the Jewish religion or Jewish beliefs at all... I'm strictly looking at it from a New testament perspective)

A service economy? 

When the factories go, so do many of the salaried "degree" jobs.  Engineering, you won't need that in a service economy I guess.

Oh well, when all the Union people lose their jobs, they will know who to rob first.  It will be the jealous degree-holding people--the greedy CEOs and executives who just boosted their severence packages. And if they run out of food, the poor folk can just cannalibize their bodies.  You know the rich will taste good because they have been living high on the hog this whole time.

[post="26157"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

All the plants won't be gone. It is not a requirement for plants to only be employed by Unionized people. Several current unionized members will still have jobs available, but I seriously doubt they'll be available under a Union contract.

You gotta stop thinking the North American mentality of quantity over quality The Rolls Royce brand has never been about how many cars they sell, except its a mark that has cars in very limited production reserved for the privelaged few

[post="26055"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exactly Fly...

Polish Kris Tell that to BMW, not me. It's BMW who's introducing cheaper models to boost market share and sales. If I had it my way, I wouldn't introduce any model under the Phantom... only equivalent or above.

The reason for mentioning the Phantom's HORRIBLE sales numbers is to indicate the true reasoning behind BMW's decision to introduce less expensive models. Regardless of image, BMW did not buy Rolls-Royce to build it as a courtesy for a privileged few. BMW isn't that generous to its clientele. BMW purchased Rolls-Royce to make money. Rolls-Royce is not profitable at its current sales level. BMW has to introduce less expensive models (and attempt to benefit from RR's reputation) to boost sales.

Go back and reread the article.

I dont see how the 300 is heavily discounted. They werent included in the employee pricing program. The most I have seen for a rebate was $1000.

[post="26044"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

rebates are provided by manufacturer if I'm correct. The deep discounts on the 300 have come from the dealer. I've seen ads that have included the 300 in the employee pricing "special" even though the 300 wasn't included by DCX directly.

Many of us are not rooting for the collapse of our own American bred companies. A lot of the opinions expressed here are of a desire for change in what is felt to be a flawed and unhealthy way of doing business. Many here feel that the UAW was a necessity at one point and served Americans well. Unfortunately, its existence is now handicapping the companies involved instead of helping them.

I personally fail to see the "we're in this together" mentality that the UAW & corporations are suppose to have. The "executives" are supposedly in charge of managing the company but have been told by the UAW time and time again "not to look our way" for flexibility.

GM has looked in other areas to trim costs. GM has already cut American white collar/salaried jobs by 33% since 2000. GM is also trying to reduce its purchasing costs by 20% over the next 3 years. Some executives are not receiving salaries. GM has to be allowed to maintain efficiency in all areas to survive competitively. Not all those white collar jobs would have been cut and suppliers would not be under such cost scrutiny if GM was able to cut costs more evenly across the company.

Unfortunately, the UAW prevents GM from being able to run plants as efficiently as possible:

• When there's nothing to build, the UAW members are paid.
• When jobs should be reduced and automation implemented, it's not.
• When plants need to be closed, GM has to find places for those UAW members or they go into a job bank… instead of receiving severances.
• When GM needs to trim benefits, they can only do so (and have done so) on the white collar/ salaried side. They can not reduce benefits of a UAW member.
• Most of all UAW jobs allowed to be cut have been through natural attrition/early retirement which results in the UAW members still receiving full retirement benefits.

Sacrifices have been made: by suppliers, by executives, and by the white collar/salaried workers.

What were the positives?