VenSeattle

Uhm... I wouldn't have posted it as a stupid question if she wasn't serious. The rest of the conversation involved me explaining Hawaii was a group of islands.

Yeah, almost all 2005 LeSabres are gone and no more are arriving. LeSabre sales will be down to zero very soon. Hopefully Lucerne inventory can arrive quickly or November will look the same.

Yeah... I kind of expected that. I think most traditional Buick buyers will go for the CXL V8, while conquest sales and FWD Seville owners will prefer the CXS. I'm looking forward to test-driving the CXS. Thanks for sharing your review & first impressions! :)

Back when Zeta first arrived, a single Zeta vehicle was supposed to replace both the Grand Prix & Bonneville. Pricing for a sedan above the G6 would be almost identical to 300's pricing. BPG dealers would then have a RWD Pontiac performance sedan and a FWD Buick Luxury sedan priced similarly... creating no overlap for their intended markets. The way I originally hoped for Zeta to play out was: - Chevrolet's Zeta sedan would be the least expensive (Charger prices). - Buick's Zeta luxury sedan would be priced above Lucerne and Pontiac's performance Zeta but still less than STS (making Buick's Zeta a value alternative to the luxury class E-Class/GS/M-Series type sedans). I never saw Buick's Zeta actually replacing Lucerne because the Pontiac & Buick Zeta would be priced too close to one another. IMO Chi is still the most probable platform to spawn a replacement for the FWD Lucerne... that is, if Chi is still a possibility. I'm still hoping for this to be GM's plan now that Zeta is back on.

At a Target picking up some travel supplies: Her: Are you going on a trip? Me: Yes, I'm leaving for Hawai'i tomorrow. Her: Oh, are you flying? Me: No, I'm driving. Her: How long does it take to drive to Hawai'i? (serious question)

Telling the customer what they want instead of listening to what they want is a way to KILL Buick. GM has made 5-passenger seating standard on both the LaCrosse & Lucerne. 6 passenger seating is optional. GM is making sure not to abandon the long term loyal buyers of Buick like Oldsmobile did (and paid dearly for it.) Doing away with bench seats will NOT guarantee more people will buy the LaCrosse & Lucerne, but it will definitely cause less people to do so. The Intrigue is proof. Sales of the Intrigue never matched the Cutlass Supreme. Sales of the LSS were not comparable to the benchseat Eighty-Eight. Those who refuse to buy a car with a center console/shifter because it offers an optional bench seat wouldn't buy the car anyway. It's not a justifiable reason to keep yourself from buying the car you actually like and want.

No they're not, but it would be easier for GM to introduce this shifter alternative on Buick than on Cadillac. I wouldn't be against it. I've thought it would be a natural direction for quite some time. This is just a modern interpretation of a column mounted shifter. I prefer bucket seats and a center console... but the location of the shifter doesn't matter that much to me. I'd be perfectly comfortable switching over to a 7-Series transmission shifter.

1) How can you tell its cheap cloth in the picture? 2) How is the horizontal dash look unattractive with benchseats, yet its been attractive in almost EVERY Buick for decades 3) The steering wheel is not cheap looking... The 4-spoke Malibu's was... not the Lucerne's 4) Remember where the benchseat buyers are coming from. I can't see how you think the Lucerne's interior will turn them off (along with the 3800 comment): Buick LeSabre Custom: compared to PK's pic:

You're voting NO on I-912? So am I. We need the road improvements that the tax is going to pay for. We've absorbed a $1 hike in gas costs with no benefit. We're now going to complain about a few cents?

The pictures certainly don't back this comment up. I'll check it out at the Seattle Autoshow next month. I think Edmunds is being WAY TOO generous... almost sickingly so...

As long as the turn around is accomplished successfully. Buick doesn't want to make the same mistakes that were made with Oldsmobile. 1) Buick has a transitional generation of sedans (LaCrosse/Lucerne) 2) New names, but the vehicles still offer qualities that current/traditional owners appreciate (such as mid-size to large dimensions, benchseats, focus still on comfort) 3) No price increase over last generation (the Intrigue and Aurora were both more expensive than the traditional Oldsmobiles they replaced... The LaCrosse and Lucerne are the same price of the Regal & LeSabre) 4) Buick's tri-shield logo was not replaced, but tastefully modernized/refreshed. (It's still recognizable unlike Oldsmobile's new rocket logo.) 5) Buick's brand name is found easily on all models. 6) Buick's warranty was increased for the entire brand instead of just on the most expensive vehicle (Like Oldsmobile's Aurora) 7) Buick's marketing as a premium/luxury brand is more cautious to allow potential buyers/first time buyers time to accept Buick 8) It seems a successful repositioniing starts with remodeling the least expensive vehicle and then proceed through the line-up from there. Oldsmobile's repositioning began with a very expensive flagship. Buick's will be completed with an expensive flagship (hopefully.)

HOW?!? How will the interior ruin the lucerne strictly based on these photos???? :blink:

I think it's suppose to read 60 billion yen.

Thanks guys! Nothstar, where did you get the 3.9l info on the Lucerne?

Whoo Hoo! Thanks PK. FINALLY! A picture of a benchseat Lucerne with cloth interior. Looks good. If this is entry level at $27k, then LeSabre owners will be VERY pleased. It doesn't look cheap at all. And yep, that's a chrome grille alright. Yes! The Lucerne looks great. BV, I actually like the side profile shot. PK, what was your opinion after seeing it in person?

The ONLY reason why I think the 3800's time has come is because it's no longer powerful enough in un-SC form to be an adequate entry level engine for Buick. I love the 3800. I grew up with it and have owned two of them myself. I have no ill will towards the 3800 for being OHV, but the bar in the Premium/Luxury segment has been raised by the competition. V6s are now expected to make 240hp-260hp. Buick can not keep up with the competition by offering the 195-205 hp 3800 as a base/entry level engine. Image is important in this segment. Having it available appears to impact Buick's image. Competitors offer 4-cyl that have as much HP as the 3800. That's a negative. If Buick needs a 200 hp entry level sedan, then Buick needs to offer a small 4-cyl 200 hp sedan. A 21st century Skylark-like compact, perhaps. I wouldn't feel this way if Buick was heading in its own direction. 200 hp standard is enough HP to move anything under 2-tons without effort, but the brands that Buick is targeting don't settle for "good enough." They're setting the standards. If GM is serious about Buick rivaling the mentioned brands, Buick will need competitive powertrains standard. This is why I think the 3.6l should be standard on the LaCrosse & the 4.6l standard on the Lucerne... along with the 6-sp automatics that will be out in a year or two. However, if Buick isn't receiving the promised $3-Billion investment, then Buick needs more help from Cadillac than just two engines. Buick will need Sigma. If Zeta is real, well, that’s where Buick’s $3-Billion will pay off.

I second! :cheers:

I like the Navigator:

Thanks wildcat! B)

Perhaps this is why Buick is about to have the trim-level shake up. It's possible Buick will exchange CX,CXL,CXS for one model that's near loaded. Then offer trims like "Reserve" & "Super" as specialty packages. What if: 1) Once the 3800 is put to rest (maybe by 2007), the LaCrosse will only have the 3.6l V6 engine as standard. Priced around $26,500 2) Once the 3800 is put to rest, the Lucerne will only have the 4.6l NorthStar V8 as standard. Pricing would start around the CXL V8 $30,000-$31,000.

I like it. It's better than "Dream Up"... Fly is correct. Acura is a Tier 2 Luxury brand. Lexus is a Tier 1. I feel that is what Pitre was trying to say. He wants Buick to be repositioned in the market as a Tier 2 luxury brand (where Buick should be.)

Thanks guys! Anyone who watched the Cowboys/Seahawks game today knows that the weather up here was lousy... but we're use to it. :)

Actually, there are several points in time where Buick's premium image has made Cadillac quite uncomfortable. The most memorable was where Buick began to offer custom vehicles built by Brunn in the late 1930's/early 1940's. They were equivalent to Cadillac & Fisher. Cadillac felt extremely threatened by Buick’s ever growing luxury image. Cadillac and Fisher both complained to GM Corp and GM ordered Buick to discontinue Custom Brunn-built luxury vehicles. But as Croc said, even today Buick is where Cadillac was just 5-10 years ago. Buick is not that far beneath or behind Cadillac. I'd have no problems with Croc's 2-tier luxury structure. found a pic on the BCA website:

Fine... I'll trade my Buick Park Avenue Ultra in on a Prius. http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//rotflmao.gif (I swear this is my favorite smilie... ever)

Great news about the Buick Lambda getting pushed up as a 2007 model. I can't wait to see the production vehicle. I agree that the Rendezvous wasn't half-assed. GM gave Buick full range on styling and encouraged innovation. Pontiac was given the same. Buick succeeded. Pontiac didn't. Just comparing the two results show how much room Buick was given to succeed/fail. Buick put a lot of effort into the Rendezvous and the result was very well received. The Rendezvous w/3.6l V6 is a great vehicle....