VenSeattle

I sat in the new VW Passat at the Seattle Auto Show. Amazing that the lower half of the dash is hard plastic similar to that in the Impala... yet no one seems to complain about it. It looks nice, but it's still hard plastic. The fit&finish was fine in the Passat, like in the Impala, but I did not see the justification in price. I'd go for the Lucerne CXS at $35k. For a few $k more, you could get an STS V6 or V8 DTS. For a few $k less, you could get an Impala SS V8.

Ven? Your name is John Horton?

:D

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Hehe... :) But I'm only 29!!!! :AH-HA_wink:

I'll have my Lucerne before 36 though. I'm still shooting for 2007/8. B)

Are the integrated turn signals hidden somewhere below the chrome, or is it optional?

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They're integrated into the mirror like on my Park Avenue. You can see them in this pic:

Thanks CSpec! The rear 3/4 shot looks great. I love the interior and the side vents. Very well executed. There isn't an SUV out that can compare to the Escalade's new powertrain. As croc stated in another thread, the grille's detail is amazing.

If Suzuki backs out of the US, Chevrolet could market the Daewoo sub-compacts & compacts in the US market without them appearing as clones. Chevrolet's line-up would become more like its international line-up. This would be good for GMNA because Chevrolet's line-up would be able to remain price competitive yet continue to offer unique products not sold by other US divisions. Chevrolet, BPG, Saturn, and Cadillac would all have a large portfolio of unique vehicles that wouldn't be immediately cross-shopped.

No clue... but I'm betting on Chicago in keeping with recent Buick debuts.

Happy B-Day! :)

I'm not shunning anything, simply making a point.  Nobody is going to cross shop a Lucerne/Avalon w/the LS430.  Both are widely outclassed

People will be cross shopping the Avalon w/the Lucerne, and the Avalon handily beats the Lucerne in fuel economy.

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Fuel econonmy. 

Even the Tacoma gets better city mpg

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So... according to your first post, people will be cross-shopping the Lucerne with the TACOMA?? :blink: :rolleyes:

I was simply making a point too. Lexus' V8s aren't any more fuel efficient than Buick's V8s (even with a 6-speed auto advantage in the Lexus).

Regardless if the ES330 is in its last year, it still outclasses the Avalon. The Lucerne seems to have a fair chance of matching both the Avalon & ES330 in several categories. The Lucerne also appears to have some advantages over the Avalon as mentioned above (by myself) that comes with being a Buick (standard OnStar, 4y/50k warranty, and Road Side assistance).

I'm not sure why it failed

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This ad is a perfect example to why the Aurora/new Oldsmobile failed to catch on.

By reading this ad, do you know:
1) What brand makes the Aurora?
2) What Company makes the Aurora?
3) Where to find the Aurora to test drive or even purchase?

Remember, this is 1994/1995; before the PC and internet had really caught on in the average American household. Google didn't exist. MSN didn't exist. AOL only had around 1 million customers. Even if you saw an Aurora in the parking lot at a mall, you wouldn't see the name Oldsmobile, GM, or the familiar rocket logo on the car.

So, how did you find an Aurora dealership? By luck or not at all. :( :angry: :rolleyes:

The brochure has Oldsmobile in some places through it... but Aurora advertising, in general, did not mention Oldsmobile or GM because of "negative" association.

Can you order Buicks from the factory?

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Yes. Absolutely. :)

I wonder how late "late availability" is.

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Waiting to place your order/deposit?

It really was a ground breaking vehicle. It's amazing how poor market positioning and bad advertising can ruin a wonderful product.

The 1st gen Aurora was the car that made me look at GM again. I grew up in Buicks but I didn't have a preference. I had the Aurora as a rental for 3 weeks while my car was getting repaired from an accident. I became amazingly impressed. After reconsidering GM, I began listening to my mother's opinion on her Park Avenues and checked them out. In the end, Buick's formality and history won me over compared to Oldsmobile's sporty intentions.

I'll never forget the Aurora though.

didn't toyota just buy subaru?

or is this saab?

kia?

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Toyota purchased less than half (45%) of GM's original investment in Subaru (Fuji Heavy). In comparison, Toyota owns a 9% investment to GM's original 20% investment in Subaru (Fuji Heavy).

excuse me... aftering looking up to Verify... Toyota purchased 8.7%. The other 11.3% was sold by GM on the open market.

Well... Year-to-date VW as a whole is down over 17%. Touareg is down almost 37% alone. Passat sedan/wagon are down 31%. The Jetta is the only thing positive. But I think it could have more to do with international cash problems and the recent scandals. We'll see. I'm very curious as to who he's alluding to.

Are you referring to the NA/US market or globally? Because rumor is VW is about to give Audi control over SEAT, and in the process completely phase out the SEAT brand. Spain isn't happy. The market, franchises, and plants would be converted to Audi or be closed. If not VW in Europe with SEAT... then I'd say Volkswagen itself in the US. It almost happened before in the mid 1990's and it could be happening now.

I'll be honest. I'd rate the Acura RSX above the Cobalt SS and I'd personally buy the RSX over Cobalt SS. However, I do agree with CR that the RSX & Cobalt SS are better choices over the tC. The RSX beats the tC hands down in my opinion. no contest. As for Mitsubishi... the new Eclipse needs to be the last Eclipse. It's time for MMNA to start planning its exit.

Jason,

You'd rather your tax dollars be spent on a Vic or Chevy Caprice? Can you imagine a cop underway having his American POS break down? If my life depended upon a reliable vehicle, I'd choose a Toyota any day!!!

F the Crown Vics...

No wonder all of the nation's police departments drive Avalon's instead of Crown Vics...

Heeeey....wait a minute.... :huh:

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Realize... Jason doesn't even know that Caprices have been out of production for almost a decade. :lol:

I've lost some respect for the Avalon. This truly does place the Avalon along side Chevy, Dodge, & Ford... with the Impala, CV, & Charger. Not good for long-term image and not good for resale value. This would never be considered a possibility for a FWD or RWD Buick vehicle. And yes, I have some respect for the Avalon... the previous generation interior was nice. I liked the styling/layout which emulated Buicks of the early 1990's and late 1980's. I just couldn't get over the exterior (ugly front and slab sides). The new one looks much better on the outside, but the last generation interior was more attractive and used higher quality materials. As a Lexus I'd consider the Avalon... as a Toyota, I'd never do so. The Toyota dealership & service experience horror stories (and friends' personal experiences) will prevent that from ever happening.

I've lost some respect for the Avalon. This truly does place the Avalon along side Chevy, Dodge, & Ford... with the Impala, CV, & Charger. Not good for long-term image and not good for resale value. This would never be considered a possibility for a FWD or RWD Buick vehicle. And yes, I have some respect for the Avalon... the previous generation interior was nice. I liked the styling/layout which emulated Buicks of the early 1990's and late 1980's. I just couldn't get over the ugly front and slab sides. The new one looks much better on the outside, but the last generation interior was more attractive and used higher quality materials.

eh... Toyoguy may be trying to play the Fuel economy card, but it's not bothering me. The Lucerne's V8 fuel economy is almost identical to Toyota/Lexus' own V8 in their $60k Lexus LS430: 18/25 (and that's with a six-speed automatic). So, for him to call foul over the Lucerne's V8 fuel economy would be to shun his own current Lexus flagship sedan.

Sure the LS430 will be replaced soon, but the Lucerne can get updates as well. Right now we're talking current and factual: People pay twice as much for a similarly powered Lexus that gets the same MPG and are quite satisfied.

Your life can not improve if you commit Suicide. There's always an opportunity of improvement as long as you're still alive. Since you're at rock bottom now, it can only improve over time. Your daughter will have an easier time surviving a broken home than living life with a father who commits suicide. You should consider what it will be like to not attend her high school/college graduation or not be there to give her away at her wedding. Your responsibilities to her haven't changed even though you and Marcia are through. Best thing for you and Sofia both are for you to pull yourself through this difficult time and begin rebuilding your life. Therapy is HIGHLY recommended, not because I think you're unstable, but because talking with professionals will help you identify and correct behavioral issues that you or your friends may not know how to uncover and correct. If you have issues with being stalked or hunted, I recommend seeking legal protection as well. Hang in there. :)

Fuel econonmy. 

For less than the price of a base ES330, you can have a well equipped 06 Avalon w/better performance, NHV, and fuel economy

Who cares about the ES330, its dead in less than a yr.

How do you know the Avalon has better NVH? :huh:

Regardless, I was comparing the current performance of the target market's vehicles (loyal LeSabre & Park Avenue owners) to the Performance of the Lucerne CX & CXL.

The comparison to Scions & ES330 were to indicate tolerance for 0-60 performance numbers by younger buyers & also the willingness to pay the price of admission.

Concerning the Avalon, the Avalon doesn't offer standard OnStar, 4y/50k warranty, or Road Side assistance... items Lexus buyers seem to appreciate and luxury buyers in general expect (Lexus and Acura both use GM's OnStar is certain vehicles.)

Try to give the Lucerne a chance. Check one out, and test drive it when it arrives at a local Buick dealer. :)

The LeSabre has been the best selling full size sedan for over a decade. The past two Avalon generations never beat LeSabre in Sales: Avalon: 1995 66,445 1996 73,308 1997 71,309 1998 77,752 1999 68,038 2000 104,078 2001 83,005 2002 69,029 2003 50,911 2004 36,460 LeSabre: 1995 ? 1996 ? 1997 150,744 1998 136,551 1999 149,445 2000 148,633 2001 145,304 2002 135,916 2003 114,572 2004 114,157 Before anyone wants to discuss fleet sales inflating the LeSabre numbers... the Avalon was heavily fleeted also. Especially the last generation.

im surprised it goes to 0 - 60 that fast with the 3.8.

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I was surprised myself... I wonder what my Century does with the 3.3L? Just for comparison of course.

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I'm not... A Lucerne CX's 0-60 of 8.5 sec is very realistic. The Lucerne CX weighs about the same as a base Park Avenue which has the same powertrain (same torque #s but Lucerne has 8hp less). Performance should remain similar, as it apparently has.

http://www.autos.com/autos/vehicle_detail?...e=USB50BUC031A0

0 to 60 Acceleration for Park Avenue:

Base: 8.2 sec
Ultra: 7.64 sec

The Lucerne will not be a slug on wheels. It will provide the same performance as the LeSabre and base Park Avenue which is completely adequate for its target market. Anyone who says otherwise needs to explain how these 20-somethings are surviving in the 100ish HP Scions which have 0-60 in the 9 sec range. Yes, a base Lucerne is faster than an xA & xB.

For less than the price of a base ES330, you can have a well equipped V8 Lucerne with more performance.

Edmunds has a page for vehicle maintenance schedules:

http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/vehicle.do