VenSeattle

I think the interior looks cheap because the black steering wheel looks totally out of place.

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The steering wheel isn't black, Northstar. It's the same BLUE color as the rest of the Tuxedo Blue two-tone trim interior. Even the interior carpet is the same blue color. It looks great to me.

Aren't they already having trouble keeping the new Vue on the lots? We around here don't really like it, but what do we know? Few of us here like the Camry and it's the best selling sedan in the country.

I was at a Buick "unveiling" tonight for the Lucerne. Nearly everyone there I spoke to had favorable things to say about the look and feel of the car. The leather is excellent. The control knobs are top notch. The LeSabre owners will be perfectly comfortable with the 3800. The Park Avenue owners will enjoy the step up to the northstar. The back seat is extremely roomy.

The quiet tuning really works. Considering I was in a loud reception hall with maybe 300 people and a jazz band playing. I got in the car, closed the door, and it all went away to a faint murmer. It's almost disturbing how vault like quiet it is.

All the Lucerne has to do is sell at the pace of the LeSabre and Park Avenue combined. I think it will do that easily plus get some conquest sales from Lexus, Lincoln, and a few disgruntled Chrysler Concord owners.

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I'm thrilled to hear someone like you say this. I can't picture any LeSabre/Park Avenue owner disappointed with the Lucerne, which guaranties a solid buyer base. I can also see non-GM owners and import owners finding the Lucerne appealing as well.

Why everyone here discounts and ignores the strong buyer base of the LeSabre that will transition to the Lucerne is beyond me. Because of that alone, the Lucerne will not be a 2006 fiasco.

I've yet to have an opportunity to sit inside the Lucerne, but I've seen it in person several times. Your review makes the Lucerne's potential look promising.

The possitive press reviews are good, but I don't think they should have spit in the face of former Buick lovers to get it.  The new cars styling is downright boring compared to the Park Ave or Lesabre, and the dumping of old names for new ones that sound similar is equally inept.  I guess that's what happens when you gut out a division's uniqueness, and push it in with others.  It seems like the opposite of what's been promised lately.

-T

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I don't feel that GM left the Buick lovers behind or spit in their eyes with the LaCrosse or Lucerne. It actually appears that GM paid attention to what they loved most about their Buicks. Unlike in Oldsmobile's transformation, GM has maintained and improved upon several main-stay Buick traits and qualities that we recognize and expect in a Buick.

As for WMJ's comment about Buick having more of a problem with the perception of being an "old person's" vehicle:

Yes, Buick needs to change perception, but Buick does not need a campaign denying it or one trying to force the perception to change. Oldsmobile failed miserably with the "This isn't your Father's Oldsmobile" marketing campaign. Buick can't make the same mistake.

Besides, you can't fault a "focused" marketing campaign that's highlighting Buick's strengths for not rehashing Buick's weaknesses. That's counter productive.

This is interesting. I never thought this was a problem on Buicks before. Interesting it would be something they would push.

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Fit & Finish is a "perceived quality" concern for all Domestic Brands. This "push" is meant to help eliminate that concern.

I can agree with Evok about damage control. Look at what happened when Lutz made the comment last year (or early this year) about "damaged goods." It sent the dealers, press, customers, etc on fire with speculation and questions. GM is not going to repeat that mistake again.

The best way to look at this is GM realizes "killing a Brand" doesn't solve problems. What GM did for Oldsmobile in the 1990's, GM really needed to do for all of its divisions simultaneously. I see GM closer to accomplishing that now than ever before in recent history.

There are several reasons why Oldsmobile was phased out. But regardless of why, the negative results from the "phase out" may have saved the rest of GM's brands from retirement. At least for now.

Here are two very good summaries by CNN that explain GM's situation with Oldsmobile.

http://money.cnn.com/2000/12/12/companies/...obile_overview/

http://money.cnn.com/2000/12/12/companies/oldsmobile/

(edited to correct the Lutz statement)

I went to the Chicago show last year. After seeing how it's layed out, I don't think it will have a negative impact on GM. I'll follow the school of thought that it will help the image of Cadillac, SAAB, & HUMMER.

My vote goes to the 2006 DTS.  I have yet to see one on the road, and many on dealer lots.  It just looks awkward and half-baked.

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I've actually seen several. It appears to be doing well up here.

As for fiasco, I'd have to go with.... hmmmm.... Mitsubishi Eclipse.

The only way the new Accord's exterior styling wouldn't appear vanilla is IF the entire world was void of color or style (as in the commercial.)

OH BOY... Talk about bad press.

No one is going to buy GM, there are too many liabilities and GM isn't going bankruptcy anytime soon either.  If it were up to the media, GM would've been dead decades ago.

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Oh, come on AH-HA... Everyone can see how attractive an almost-bankrupt manufacturer is. Look at all the companies fighting over Mitsubishi! :lol:

And let's not forget the TSX is almost identical to the Euro Honda Accord...just rebadged.

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Well, at least the TSX has a unique interior. The Euro Accord uses the US Accord's interior.

Go BUICK! :)

If they just would have made the chrome trim surround the passenger compartment entirely while the top was down. It lleaves an unfinished appearance. :( I'm surprised by the folding top. Everything prior to this indicated the top would fold similarly to the SSR (stacked upright) to help increase trunk space. Oh well. It's still very attractive and worth the compromise (if appropriately priced.)

I just can't believe this is an Edmunds review... It's almost impossible to acknowledge the source when reading it. It's a fantastic review that would make any car manufacturer proud.

Question? If GM declares bankruptcy, will it be for just GMNA? or will it impact all GM regions like GME, GMAP? When Delphi declared bankruptcy it was just for their NA division. I'm wondering if GM is structured to allow the same option.

The XL-7 replacement will be on Theta. The Grand Vitara is unique to Suzuki.

Well, if I left GM for the dark side... I'd be in an Infiniti dealer myself. My congrats if the purchase goes through. :)

Everything indicates that the $3 Billion investment allocated for Buick has been cancelled. GM never officially announced that it was cancelled, but the announcements that have followed since the "huge investment" speech seem to spell that out:

1) Velite canceled/shelved
2) Buick reduced from a full line-up (6-7 vehicles) to a niche line-up (3-4).
3) Buick has been consolidated into Pontiac-GMC dealers.
4) Only official "new" product coming is the Enclave which has been in the works since the Lambda platform started development (late 1990's/early 2000's)

So, it has now been about 2 years since the "$3-billion investment" announcement (Feb/04), and no sign of it.

At the Seattle Auto Show (last week), they stated it will be 3 weeks until the PacNW starts taking delivery of the Lucerne. So it sounds like the entire west coast will be getting them around the same time.

It's mostly a difference of perceived quality... And we perceive these vehicles differently. I don't really think my lack of criticizm towards the Impala is a result of being a GM fan. Just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm being biased in my opinion.

Red Tag sale.....excuse me while I barf at this. The name, couldn't get anymore desperate.

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GM used the "Red Tag" event last year if I'm not mistaken. It's a seasonal event.

But... in reply about it sounding desperate, at least it's not called:

"GM Blue Light Special" event :lol:

To add on to the GMC folding into Chevrolet discussion. There are 3 definite reasons why General Motors CAN NOT do this:

1) Chevrolet Dealerships are at inventory capacity. The Chevrolet line-up consists of at least 17 nameplates. Dealerships are complaining that they can not stock "popularly equipped" models because of the lack of space for inventory on their lots. Making space for inventory needed to handle the additional 600,000 sales annually that the GMC brand pulls in is impossible.

2) Chevrolet dealerships do not have the service capacity to absorb the additional 600,000 GMC truck buyers who will bring in their vehicles for service & repairs.

3) Buick-Pontiac-GMC provide a separate dealership network to sale the extra capacity and provide service... not to mention that BPG dealerships need the GMC sales volume and potential service/repairs that they bring in order to survive.

Now, to take advantage of the volume capabilities along with the needs at the BPG dealers, GM could convert "B-P-GMC" dealerships into "Buick-Pontiac-Chevrolet Truck" dealerships. That would satisfy everyone's complaining about "too many brands," BUT that would be confusing to Chevrolet car buyers and turn off current GMC owners... So that's no good.

In the long run, it just makes little difference if the vehicles are called "Chevy" by one dealership and "GMC" by another.

One thing is certain, the two dealership networks combined provide GM the ability to handle the sales/service volume which that many SUV/trucks sales require. Without both networks, sales would drop.

The Impala’s lower dash isn’t glossy either and the grain is well matched. No one can tell that it’s hard plastic either until it’s knocked on. Yes, it’s probably cheaper plastic but you can’t tell until contact is made. For a cross comparison, the LaCrosse’s upper and lower dash both use soft touch materials. I guess that’s another reason I don’t understand why VW can’t afford to do the same in the Passat. Sure the LaCrosse’s wood-grain appears cheesy to some and the layout traditional, but the materials & Fit-&-Finish seem to be equal. LaCrosse’s protein-leather even feels more expensive than what is in the Passat. Don't even compare the small buttons in both. The Passat's aren't any easier to read. I just can’t get myself to justify the mark-up on the Passat. The Passat is an attractive well built car, inside and out... but it's just overpriced.

I don't see how with only 20% market share in the US GM can maintain 8 brands...

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Why? Ford does it (17%-20% market share) with 7 brands.

Ford
Mazda
Mercury
Volvo
Lincoln
Jaguar
Aston Martin

Ford and Chevy can maintain their volume and Dealer network, but like Ford is doing with PAG and has already done with Lincoln-Mercury, GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC... making the brands consolidate under one rooftop. HUMMER & Saturn don't have large dealership networks so their volume can support the dealers but I have no clue about SAAB.

I want to mourn for that Bentley. :(