VenSeattle

Aren't the plants where most buicks are built shutting down soon?

[post="48015"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If I recall, the Lucerne's plant isn't closing. We already knew the Terraza and Rainier were history. The Enclave will be built in GM's all-new plant outside of Lansing. The next gen LaCrosse will be on Epsilon2 and built at a different location as well.

Plant closings aren't going to impact Buick's line-up.

GM just released the next generation of HUD. It's in the XLR, STS, Chevrolet Corvette, & I believe the Buick Rendezvous (I believe it now displays radio info but isn't 4 color if I recall). So, I don't think GM has given up since an updated version was just released. However, I recall Bob Lutz commenting on something to the effect that "HUD was gimmicky and it's an extra engineering expense that's hard to justify when few people buy it." So it could go either way. More info would be helpful. I personally love HUD in my car and wish the Lucerne offered the new generation of HUD.

Invicta was name reserved for the RWD Zeta "Buick Flagship Sedan".  That vehicle has I believe since been cancelled, due in part to GM planning on the NG Lucerne being RWD (ZETA).

Buick seriously needs this product, as they would otherwise be left only with a Global Epsilon (Epsilon2) Lacrosse, the Zeta Lucerne, and the Enclave.

[post="47099"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Is there a solid date for the Epsilon2 LaCrosse? Which plant?

You mentioned in another thread that DTS could/would go Zeta along with the Lucerne... how close to "final approval" is that possibility?

GM had more than twice the investment in Subaru and couldn't achieve anywhere near half of what Toyota is asking... Subaru was even against the 9-2x, though it was a very low volume vehicle for GM. Pathetic.

I think I'd spend the extra money and get an Avalon or Lucerne if I was in the market for the Azera.

[post="46951"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Me too... or get a fully loaded AWD Montego once the 3.5l engine comes out.

Perhaps it's an optional Chrome package? Did the window sticker indicate the chrome grille as an option?

Do you want one? Are you considering to buy one? What colors did you like best? What was the cloth fabric like?

Huh? I actually like the sketch. It gives the vehicle an FX35/45-like profile and stance. Put a Velite grille on the front and round out the greenhouse for the Buick version. :)

I agree. Most new products from the Asian brands have been vehicles that compete directly with those that GM plans to remodel for 2006. It's bad advice to tell GM to ignore the onslaught of large SUVs & Pick-ups that have recently emerged in this "environmentally & economically" concerned market. If it's truly and honestly a bad idea, then the analysts should have been condemning Toyota and Nissan over the past 5 years for building new plants dedicated to large trucks and SUVs.

I still hate that name. Like I have said a million times, wiht the heretige Buick has they should use some of theuir classic car names, but on their cars. As far as these SUVs/Minivans/Crossovers I'm glad they're not tarnishing any old manes but for god's sake WTF call it Enclave? :huh:
As far as the Lucerne it SHOULD have been called something else, not to mention it's Wrong Wheel Drive. *sigh*

[post="46686"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I feel Buick is moving in the right direction. I have no problems with the names Enclave or Lucerne. Buick may need more focus but one thing Buick is good at is attracting buyers that don't shop the rest of GM.

GM should not offer the same product attracting the same demographic in every division. Each GM division needs to be focused and continue to attract a different type of buyer. Considering your taste, wants, and expectations, I don't feel Buick is the right GM brand to find what you're looking for or expect it either.

If '09 is right then this "concept" will be in design freeze and could change drastically in the next three years.  The overall process after design freeze is three years.  I sincerely hope they are showing a glossed up version of the '07/'08 model and not a pie-in-the-sky '09!

[post="46776"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

A 2009MY vehicle can go on sale Jan 1, 2008. That's about 2 years away.

It's been suggested before and I still agree with it:
Give Buick's LWB Theta crossover the Rendezvous name.

And I think they're terribly off in their predicted price range. Buick's Enclave will probably be $35k-$45k but the Theta will probably be priced the same as the outgoing Rendezvous: $25k-$35k.

Had my first look at a Lucerne in person this weekend.

I must say that I was floored! Pictures absolutely do not do this car justice. It will be a HUGE success if Buick plays it's cards right.

Exactly. A lot of people on this board, especially several who voted the Lucerne as a 2006 fiasco, haven't even seen the Lucerne in person yet. The Lucerne will be loved by current Buick owners and still bring in first time/non-GM buyers.

There's no way the Lucerne will encourage a current LeSabre/PA owner to leave Buick.

http://www.partsvoice.com

Click on "find parts" and then "parts catalog". Enter your zip code and search as a guest.

Back when the LaCrosse orginially debuted, it was mentioned that it would have a shorter than normal model life cycle (shorter than 6-7 years like the Regal). This fits the picture. As CSpec said, Epsilon II is the intended platform for the LaCrosse replacement which should be ready by the 2009MY. I believe Malibu will be the first to receive it in 2008. This could mean the next gen Malibu & next gen LaCrosse will be built at the same plant (Fairfax?).

Sorry  :rolleyes:

I was talking about interior PASSENGER volume.

[post="46507"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

In that case, the 500 is still larger than the Sonata and Camry by a notable difference:

Camry passenger volume: 101.8 cu ft
Sonata passenger volume: 105.4 cu ft
500 passenger volume: 108.3 cu ft

I can find a nicely loaded Sonata V6 for that.

What's your point?

Edit: I was looking at Sonata specs ... and get this ... a Sonata has about 12% more interior volume than your 500.

http://hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/sonata/specs/specs.aspx

[post="46496"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

UHM... :rolleyes:

The 500's interior volume is 129.5 cu ft compared to the Sonata's 121.7 cu ft. There's a big difference between interior volume (which is the combined total of passenger & cargo volume) and just passenger volume.

Sonata passenger volume: 105.4 cu ft
Sonata cargo volume: 16.3 cu ft
total: 121.7 cu ft

500 passenger volume: 108.3 cu ft
500 cargo volume: 21.2 cu ft
total: 129.5 cu ft

Here's an informative link:

http://www.ford.com/en/company/about/brands/mercury.htm

Its just like GM will soon be out of the Mini-van market soon. There just isn't
a reason to waste money on a dying market...why else would the rehashed
new vans lacked updates?

Before the end of 2007...Doraville will be closed, and those 3 sister vans will be
gone.

It is simply knowing where to cut your losses...

[post="45822"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

GM is not getting out of the minivan market. The reason the quadruplets did not receive a significant update is because the new minivans will be on Lambda. According to the insiders here, only Chevrolet and Saturn are getting the new minivans. This could have changed again, but this was the situation last time I checked.

I wasn't planning on seeing it but I saw Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire yesterday. It was pretty good and I wasn't as lost as I thought I'd be having not seen the first three movies.

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I saw Harry Potter at the midnight showing... I liked it. Much darker than the others. According to my friends, some sub-plots were left out or merely hinted at that would have made the movie more interesting. It’s still a good movie.

I was forced to go see Zuthura. Just as I thought... Jumanji, but with a space theme. It wasn't a waste of money, but wait for On-Demand or video if you don't have kids screaming to go see it.

Parker attempted to regain control of the vehicle, but a handling problem with the Explorer caused it to turn sideways, which triggered the rollover, Kaster said.

Yeah... a driver that's asleep would have been steering the Explorer perfectly. It must have been a handling problem. :rolleyes:

Trying to do too much at once? That's GM.. How many GM vehicles go head-to-head with one Toyota vehicle?

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I think it's the other way around. GM's complete vehicle line-up was around way before Toyota's. Toyota is the one who decided to make one vehicle that competes against several from GM & Ford. That's why Toyota has a single vehicle that stretches across $10k-$15k in options while GM's were traditionally marketed in certain price ranges and loaded for that price range. GM has now joined the "3 foot long options list" racket which has created a lot of overlap with product pricing.

Buick will not even be remotely on the younger radar screens....I worry that Buick will never be able to turn around it's senior citizen image.  The Lucerne will not change those perceptions.  I predict you will see older people driving that car.  Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[post="45517"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not picking on you Harley... but several have said similar. Considering the 100,000+ annual LeSabre buyers that are automatically going to LOVE the Lucerne, then yes, older people will be seen driving it... but the Lucerne doesn't look dated. It has exterior styling traits that are similar to current Acuras and VWs. The overhangs are no larger than its direct large import sedan competitor (see Avalon.) As for the interior quality, everything indicates that it's world class.

Toyota isn't too concerned if the average buyer's age of the Avalon doesn't drop (60's) and the latest info I could find on the average age of Lexus buyers is 58 years old. That's not much younger than Buick's.

I think too many people are obsessed with getting the few dollars that 18-35 years olds have. Most can not afford a $35,000 Buick, Cadillac, Toyota, or Lexus. They have Student loans, first time mortgages, and newborns to pay for. It's Chevrolet, Saturn, & Pontiac that need to worry about those buyers since they all make cars that fall more within the average Gen X/Gen Y price range(which BTW, their average buyer age is much younger than Buick or Cadillac.) This is probably why almost every brand has an average buyers age in the mid 40's or higher.

Something of an FYI... You can usually tell if a Buick review will be biased or not when they quote the average buyer's age. If it's biased they'll quote the 'average age for Buick sedan/car buyers' instead of the entire Buick division. That way they can inflate the number and exclude any success the Rendezvous, Rainier, & recent Terraza has had in bringing younger buyers to Buick. (I don't believe this particular article did this, but I've seen far too often in recent reviews... it's irritating.)

In response to Empowah's first post:

Last time I checked, it was based off the Honda Pilot which was essentially an Odyssey with a higher suspension.  Prove me wrong.

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I looked into this question myself. According to several sources, the Ridgeline is a derivative of Honda's "Global Light Truck" platform that's shared with the Pilot, Odyssey, & MDX. To meet the structural requirements, 93% of the structural components were modified. So it’s not the exact platform as the others, but it’s not entirely original either. It’s more like Honda’s light truck platform on steroids. From what I can tell, even Honda classifies the Ridgeline as a "Global Light Truck" platform derivative.

Someone like me?

[post="45246"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Young male professional that's not a current Buick owner and typically cross-shops imports. Pretty much someone who's not in Buick's current demographic, but someone who Buick is trying to attract.