VenSeattle

Griffon... which Daewoo is this one? Is this the interior of the vehicle already posted?

http://autospy.dreamwiz.com/board/bbs.php?...iew&uid=657&p=2

Also I find it very hard to believe that Toyota's fleet sales are just 8%. It should be closer to 18%.

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I have a feeling the disparity comes from GM's commercial truck/van sales. That's a large part of GM's fleeting where Toyota is almost nonexistent. Most of Toyota's fleeting seems to reside in sedan rentals where GM is strong also.

I'm waiting to here how this will hurt the Lucerne's resale value. After all, look at what Oprah did to the G6. :rolleyes: Anyway... I think this was a great idea by Buick to team up with Martha Stewart. I look forward to attending the Lucerne V.I.P. Premiere Night party at my dealership. :)

Keep in mind that the LaCrosse was just being introduced at this time last year.  If you look at some of the monthly sales figures earlier in the year, the LaCrosse is actually down on sales.

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Well, that all depends... sales volume "industry wide" changes from season to season. Sure, LaCrosse may not sell as well in November as it did in June, but most cars don't. That's why it's important to look at year over year comparisons. The volume that the LaCrosse is selling at (retail, not fleet) is impressive and continues to beat the Century and Regal combined. So the LaCrosse is doing well despite certain people's negativity about the vehicle. I see it on the road and in parking lots quite frequently now. The LaCrosse looks classy.

Errr, I must have missed the reviews that had any of these vehicles (the Tahoe isn't out yet) in a class leading position.  The Impala, HHR, and Cobalt are all mediocre products.

Mark

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I must have also missed the reviews that called them mediocre. The Cobalt, HHR, & Impala have all recently received very good reviews. Their sales also indicate that the market thinks so as well.

Well, I disagree with their statement about the Lucerne price being steep for a domestic near-luxury car. A fully loaded Lucerne is about $4,000 less than a loaded Park Avenue Ultra.

In a world that buys $32,000 Camries & Accords, a $38,000 Lucerne is NOT too expensive.

I'm not very happy to hear the Enclave debuting so early. It won't be out until early 2007 correct? Or has it been moved up? But, I have to admit, I can't wait to see it! :)

Just finished watching the Apprentice. The Lucerne looked excellent in black, though both the P-B-G dealerships looked horrible, like some Hyundai-Suzuki-Isuzu discount store. If Buick wants to get the Lexus customers, they need the right showroom and salespeople as well. The PBG store here is downright cheesy compared to its surroundings.

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I didn't watch the Apprentice tonight, but I agree about Buick showrooms. GM needs to seriously offer incentives/assistance for dealers to upgrade their showrooms.

As for the new website, I think it looks FANTASTIC! This will appeal to the younger and more internet savvy people. It looks very professional. Bravo, Buick!

This goal has been highlighted in articles discussing Buick's 2005 sales.

For the year Buick sales are down, but retail sales are up. Therefore the decrease in overall sales is due to the decrease in fleet sales. This is better for Buick's bottom line/profit & also for image.

What GM? (Domestic GM)

Buick Lucerne CXS, Buick LaCrosse CXS, Buick Rendezvous CXL+, New GMC Yukon Denali, Saturn Sky, HUMMER H3, Cadillac STS, Cadillac DTS

What Ford? (Domestic Ford)

Mercury Montego, Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln Navigator, (BOTH of Lincoln's upcoming luxury sedans)

What Chrysler? (Chrysler Corp)

none.

What Euro?

Volvo S80, Jaguar S-Type, Mercedes-Benz CLK350, Mercedes-Benz SLK350, Porsche Boxster, Volkswagen Touareg V8

What Asian?

Infiniti M35/45, Infiniti FX35/45, Lexus ES330, Subaru B9 Tribeca

However, I am worried about how the car will sell though.  The LeSabre was the best-selling full-size car.  I don't see this selling in the same volumes because of the higher price.  I know there are people who hate seeing parallels between Buick and Oldsmobile, but it almost feels like when the 98, 88, and Aurora got combined into a single expensive car.

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The transition from LeSabre to Lucerne isn't any where near as difficult as it was from the 88 & 98 to the Aurora. For one, the Aurora was mid-sized while the other two were full size. The other major difference was a dramatic change in prices. There is no difference between the Lucerne CX & CXL MSRPs and the LeSabre Custom and LeSabre Limited. The Aurora's MSRP was priced higher than the 98's & 88's MSRP... much higher.

Yes, LeSabres sale with a discount but it still carries a VERY high loyalty rating. The Lucerne offers the same qualities of a LeSabre (full size with bench seats, along with more standard features) unlike the Aurora/88-98 comparison.

Also, LeSabre owner won't choke when seeing the Lucerne CX at $27k or a Lucerne CXL at $31k because the MSRPs are familiar and within the same range as their current LeSabre's Custom/Limited MSRP. That wasn't the case when the owner of a $28k 98 walked in and saw the $35k mid-sized Aurora. Price, look, & features were all foreign to the traditional 88-98 owner.

I'm sure GM will offer $1k-$2k incentives within the next few months which should be enough to keep all the current LeSabre owners happy.

I'm actually expecting the Lucerne to beat the LeSabre's 2005 annual sales in 2006 providing GM manages to quickly increase Lucerne inventories at the dealerships. The Lucerne still fills the LeSabre's position in qualities and in MSRP price. We'll have to wait and see though.

Looks kind of squished in the front. I could go for a longer nose.

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Then everyone would complain about the overhangs. :rolleyes:

Eh, that was my least favorite aspect of the commercial.

I don't know... generally, most GM commercials, with the exception of Cadillac, seem too inconsistent. It seems like they're unsure of the branding of their, uh, brands, constantly changing them every other year. What happened to Dream On? The Lexus announcer has been the same for as long as I remember, and it helps to reinforce a common image.

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You must have missed the announcement that Buick dropped "Dream on" for "Beyond Precision."

The commercials are a good start... The look, feel, and style of the commercials are very different from what has come out of Buick. The commercials are establishing a different perception of Buick. Let's see if this new marketing direction carries over to other Buick vehicles. "Beyond Precision" needs to clearly portray all of Buick. The Terraza & LaCrosse need similar commercials and a commercial featuring all of Buick's line-up would also help.

The commercials are a good start... The look, feel, and style of the commercials are very different from what has come out of Buick. The commercials are establishing a different perception of Buick. Let's see if this new marketing direction carries over to other Buick vehicles. "Beyond Precision" needs to clearly portray all of Buick. The Terraza & LaCrosse need similar commercials. A commercial featuring all of Buick's line-up would also help.

Well, Infiniti and Lexus don't have competitors to the Acura RSX or TSX. That's not a problem for Acura. And Infiniti and Acura really don't have a Lexus ES330 competitor either. Each brand defines their targeted entry level buyer and then builds a ladder from that starting point. In this case, you're as strong as your lowest/entry level vehicle.

Buick's ladder starts in Camry LE V6 & Honda LX V6 territory and goes up from there. This overlaps with Chevrolet's Malibu & Impala. BUT this allows Chevrolet to offer lower priced alternatives to the Camry/Accord for value conscious shoppers while also allowing the LaCrosse to provide a less expensive vehicle for style conscious shoppers to move into a premium brand.

The practice has worked for decades, but isn't anymore. GM needs to make Buick a tier above Chevrolet instead of overlapping Chevrolet. A Malibu/Impala owner should view Buick as a step up instead of being an alternative.

To accomplish this, Buick needs to be allowed to overlap Cadillac more. This won't be much of a problem since Cadillac's aspirations are moving even higher with the flagship sedan & V12 eventually coming. GM is too "bottom heavy" while remaining weak in the Luxury (image conscious) areas. In other words, GM has more room for luxury oriented vehicles than mainstream.

Hopefully BPG will be able to move up together and accomplish a solid transition to Premium/Luxury. It's possible that GMC & Pontiac will need to match Buick's warranty & customer service expectations to convince buyers that the "Professional Grade Trio" are on par with Lincoln-Mercury dealers across the street instead of Ford and Chevy dealers.

One thing is for sure, dealership ambiance needs to be consistently improved across the country to convince premium buyers that they're buying from a premium brand. Several BPG dealerships are still living in the 1950s or are carrying the 1990's sterile look of Pontiac's Gray/Red theme.

Well it's the same as there never technically was a Olds Automobile Corporation or whatever but we all know where the Olds comes from...

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Not exactly. If I recall, Ransom's vehicles were called Oldsmobiles before Durant took the company over.

Before GM took over GMC, they were "Rapid" trucks or vehicles made by the "Rapid Motor Vehicle Company". GM renamed the division to General Motors Truck Company, and marketed them as GMC trucks.

Thanks for the link James. I've seen the wiki page before... but there is legitimate controversy over the GMC meaning. I need to find info again coming from the Garbowski side of the controversy.

General Motors Truck Company. It's controversial whether or not the name was derived from the owner of Rapid Motor Vehicles: Max Grabowski = Grabowski Motor Company. Officially "Grabowski Motor Company" never existed and as far as I can tell it never appeared on any vehicles either. "GMC" has been used since 1912. I found an excellent website about two years ago that discussed GMC's history in detail and covered this. I'm trying to look for it.

I just wish Nissan would add a "load leveling" rear suspension as standard equipment to the current Maxima. Every time I see one on the road with 3 or 4 passengers the ass of the vehicle is severely sagging. It makes an attractive vehicle look absolutely terrible.

Well, what concerns me is this:

Buick seems to be turning things around with the Lucerne.  It's a great car that could be awesome with a few tweaks (6-speed automatic, drop the 3800 as base engine, etc.)

What worries me is that Buick put out a great car like this, now, which is good competition for cars that are out, now.  But soon after, manufacturers will go way above and beyond expectations and put something out incredible.  Where does this leave Buick (as well as all of GM--this just keeps happening over and over)?

Why can't GM take the lead anymore?  Seriously.  I mean, I love the Lucerne, but in a year or two, will it be enough against competition?

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This has always been the case, except it's no longer just between GM & Ford. It's just the nature of competition. "expectations" & definition of "incredible" are different for every consumer. That's why there are several vehicles in the same market.

As long as Buick can clearly position itself a tier above mainstream brands (Toyota, Honda, Chevrolet, Ford, & Dodge) Buick will be considered when those buyers decide to move up.

Most buyers can't afford or are not willing to pay for every feature, so features are just half the battle with the competiton. This is when Buick's distinctions need to win over buyers.

Well, just as the Infiniti G35 has a sedan and coupe, maybe the E2 LaCrosse & Zeta Lucerne replacement will have coupe (maybe even convertible) variants.

You don't have to wonder why most men feel intimidated when single women have toys like that in the bedroom. :lol:

hard to see any future in Buick.  It's products don't appeal to new buyers and I don't see that changing. 

Mark

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About 50% of LaCrosse buyers are NOT considering other GM vehicles. Lucerne is receiving amazing reviews. The Rendezvous has always had a high percentage of conquest sales.

I know there isn't another GM brand that I'm really interested in.

I think the DTS could pick up some sales over the Deville as well, so a 10k unit gain is easily doable.

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I completely agree! I don't understand why the journalist and Jim Taylor completely ignored the DTS in this article. The DTS is one of Cadillac's high volume vehicles that can dramatically impact sales for better or for worse.

so it will just be the lacrosse, lucerne, enclave, and possibly the velite.

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(At the moment) How Buick's line-up will transform and become a thoroughly modern range of premium/luxury vehicles:

Current 2006 line-up:
LaCrosse, Lucerne, Rendezvous, Terraza, & Rainier

2008 Line-up:
LaCrosse, Lucerne, Lambda-based Enclave Crossover debuts

2009 Line-up:
Epsilon2 (E2) LaCrosse debuts, Lucerne, & Enclave

Somewhere between 2010-2012:
E2 LaCrosse, Enclave, ET-based CUV (tentative), Possible RWD Zeta-based replacement for Lucerne & DTS(or it could still be FWD/AWD Chi-based considering older reports)

Buick's line-up will eventually be two cars and two crossovers.