VenSeattle

OC... just curious. Why do you feel the STS is not competitive? or even close? And what features do you feel are missing on the Lucerne?

That's just a standard CXL interior correct? I don't see any customization. Although I would have personally gone with a darker wood tone for the ebony interior, I still wouldn’t call the LaCrosse’s interior “rental grade”.

As you said, this is completely unscientific. It's a matter of perception. For the most part, yes, I agree with my choices. The vehicles listed are NOT at the bottom. Not even close. CR & Edmunds don't give most of them the credit I feel they deserve. Their opinions/reviews don't change my final descision. No one should feel ashamed to drive any of the above GM products that I listed. The decision to pick them over others (or vice versa) is a matter of preference. You say "near the top" is acceptable... how near? I'd say the new Civic might be considered better than the Cobalt but not much else. So 2nd place is acceptable as class competitive? I'd put the Impala behind the Accord & 500 but in front of the current Camry. So is 3rd place still considered acceptable? STS-V just placed 2nd in the C&D comparison test… that must mean something. I feel the STS is a completely solid product that is solely distinguished from the rest by interior/exterior styling. You either like the styling or not, but the fundamentals and goods are there. Same can be said for Equinox, Sky, H3, etc.... Once again, it's all a matter of perception.

Class leading? Perhaps not... at least in many categories... but overall, Yes competitive: Mainstream Sedans: Compact: Cobalt is class competitive Midsize: Impala is class competitive Large: Lucerne is class competitive/class leading Luxury Sedans: Entry-level luxury car: CTS is still class competitive Luxury sedan: STS is class competitive Roadsters: Affordable roadster: Solstice & Sky are class competitive/class leading Sports/performance roadster: Corvette is class competitive/class leading Luxury roadster: XLR is class competitive/class leading SUVs/CUVs/SUVs/Minivans: Compact CUV: Equinox, Torrent, & VUE are class competitive Compact SUV: H3 is class competitive Midsize/Large CUV: (pending Lambda) Midsize SUV: 9-7x is class competitive Large SUV: GMT 900s are class leading; H2 is class competitive Minivan: (pending Lambda) Pick-ups: Full-size pickup: Silverado-Sierra are class competitive CUT: Avalanche is still class competitive/class leading

so the poll question was changed(?): "Aside from the Corvette, does GM build vehicles that are truly competitive with others?"

There's a difference between "Class Competitive" and "Class Leading." I think the poll was for Class Competitive. GM's full size pick-ups are still very class competitive.

Who would really pay the money for this? I'm more interested in the rumored Imperial concept that will be on the stretched LX platform. Now that may be worth the extra money if Chrysler produces it.

Thanks for finding out for sure... GM is the preferred source on an issue like this :) I'm not bothered by this. It's the most convincing simulated wood that I've ever seen. There's just no way to tell that it's not real when you're inside.

I completely agree... but if the current gen LaCrosse is being replaced after 2008, I doubt GM will bother. :(

Cars.com & Carsdirect.com both show the Lucerne as having simulated wood trim. They're usually accurate.

That's a relief to hear. :)

I believe the strips on the door of the Park Avenue Ultra were real up until 2002. Then everything became faux with the 2003 update. I agree the real did not match the faux. It looks better now that everything matches (steering wheel, console, doors, & dashboard) I believe the Lucerne's wood is faux also. Everything seems to indicate that, but it LOOKS VERY REAL in person. I honestly can't tell the wood is fake when inside of the Lucerne. If Buick would just use the Lucerne's wood quality in the LaCrosse, it would make a HUGE difference.

I must say thanks to Southern California for this creative effort. What innovation and style. :puke: Not one of the best works to come out of the Golden State.

It takes the horse disappearing entirely so they can all mourn at the funeral and speak greatly of its history and accomplishments... oh, and write articles upon heaping articles about how they'll REALLY miss it. :rolleyes: :angry: :(

Well, at least some people like it. They certainly don't post on Cheersandgears.

The problem is that everything continues to stay in development. GM continues to perpetuate a 6-8 year model life cycle for its products even though it claims to be shortening them. True, development is "actually" speeding up, but the product is NOT making it to the showrooms any quicker.

G6 coupe.

Well, GM can't possibly get rid of Saturn or BPG without doing it through bankruptcy. Dealer law suits (because of the cutting of brands), additional plant closings (because of self-induced reduction in market share), UAW strikes (because of the cutting of brands & more plants) combined would cripple GM into bankrupcy if they didn't proceed with it first. With Kirkorian having a seat on the board, GM will not be pursuing this course. It will not be an option. Kirkorian isn't looking to throw away his 10% stake. Selling off SAAB & GMAC are definite possibilities. Kirkorian is old, but he's VERY familiar with how the auto industry works. It's hard for me to imagine that a man who I despise may actually end up being the reason my preferred brand might have a chance.

A new base engine will be in the Lucerne within 2 years.

How about one step further... make the next gen Malibu the planned Buick LaCrosse on EPII and just kill Buick.

Why do I have a sinking feeling that GM is about to lose multiple brands? :angry:

:word: That is funny. :)

I suppose this really must be a compliment to Buick. I would never picture someone like you to even consider a Camry. So for someone like you to consider & drive a LaCrosse means a good step in the right direction. This LaCrosse will have a short life. Next Gen should debut at an Auto show in about 2-2 1/2 years.

If I'm correct, The Aura will make it to showrooms very close to the new Camry. I believe the Aura begins production in Summer 2006, while the new Camry begins production in Spring 2006. So there shouldn't be much of a gap. They'll both be 2007 models. So, I wouldn't say GM is late again.

It is a very attractive vehicle. I sat in one at the Auto Show. It feels bigger than the 3-Series or C-Class. It even feels bigger than the G35. It makes me think that the IS will continue to appeal to a different type of buyer. I don't see a lot of ES buyers switching over so I'm trying to figure out if Lexus will continue making the ES after the next generation or drop it entirely if the Avalon finally becomes a success for Toyota.