VenSeattle

No, but my Park Avenue has a hard plastic middle section that doesn't look bad in the least. Since the Park Avenue is above the LeSabre, there's no "regression." Hard dash plastic doesn't fade or warp over time and is very easy to keep clean. See 10-year-old Buick interiors for reference. The hard plastics still look new with minimal maintenance. You may think hard plastic is cheap, but it’s also long lasting and durable. As for the hard plastic looking cheap in the Lucerne, it doesn't. No one knew it was hard when looking at the pictures. It's low-gloss, nicely textured plastic. Even sitting inside, you CAN NOT tell without touching. Croc, you didn't even detect it on your initial TEST DRIVE. You disputed it with OC and had to check it again at the Auto Show. If you, a car enthusiast, didn’t bother testing the dash plastic during your inspection and test drive (after all, it’s a critical point in determining the quality of a car)… then why would a normal individual in their 40s or 50s, do it?

290hp just isn't that great any more for this class. Especially for $50,000. With the new IS350, G35, and their own TL (not to mention the Chrysler 300C), you can have the same performance (or better) in a vehicle around the same size but at a much cheaper price... even when including AWD. True you'll miss out on a few features, but those features don't justify $10,000+ premium over the above mentioned vehicles. This is funny. Check this out: Car & Driver's performance numbers for the 275hp "torqueless" $35,000 Lucerne CXS: "60 mph comes up at just a tick under seven seconds (6.9), followed by the quarter-mile mark in 15.3 at 94 mph."" Car & Driver's performance numbers for the 290hp $50,000 Acura RL: "put the RL's acceleration to 60 mph at 6.7 seconds, the quarter-mile at 15.2 seconds at 94 mph" If the Lucerne should be ashamed of its performance, then... (MPG are also about the same too: RL 18/26, Lucerne: 17/25. There's V6 economy for you!)

Reason #1 it was a good move: Reason #2 it was a good move: Resale Value.

Well, it was bound to happen. Where did you think LeSabre buyers who couldn't afford the Lucerne would go? Voila! Impala Delux!

If GM can combine ethanol engines with Hybrid systems, then the vehicle would have pretty good MPG and be oil free... now, if they can just grow the refueling network fast enough.

Here are our two "kids" Siamese: Ginger Pug: Saffron

OnStar Updates its Navigation Option 02.07.06 OnStar Turn-By-Turn Navigation provides spoken directions without requiring the driver to enter a destination manually; without continued operator involvement (unlike current OnStar directions); but also without any navigation display. It will require a 2007 GM car and cost about $10 a month more than current basic OnStar service. By Bill Howard The in-car navigation space is getting a lot more crowded: Enter the upcoming voice-only OnStar navigation system, shown to the media on a live Webcast January 6, and to be formally announced by GM and Onstar on January 8 at the Chicago Auto Show. The salient appeal of OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation is user interaction that's as simple as pressing a button and telling the operator where you want to go. When it is rolled out, Turn-By-Turn will add around $10 a month to the cost of basic OnStar service. Two Cadillacs and a Buick will include it this spring, followed by nearly 1 million GM vehicles in the 2007 model year that will offer the new nav system as an option to subscribers. Turn-by-Turn should provide a boost to OnStar; its current navigation system -- Directions & Connections, which costs $399 a year -- is costly both to subscribers and to OnStar, because it requires a live operator to read directions. The cheapest portable navigation systems have already dropped to $400, but OnStar chases a different market: one that values drop-dead-simple solutions that work at the single press of a button instead of several dozen taps on a screen attached by a suction cup to the car windshield. Factory-integrated navigation systems typically cost $1,500 to $2,000, and about 7 percent of the cars produced this year will have built-in navigation. To use Turn-by-Turn, a driver or passenger needs to push the OnStar button on the vehicle's mirror, which makes a cellular voice call to OnStar. The car's occupants then tell the operator where they want to go, such as a street address or a point of interest like a theater or park, and then wait a few seconds for the information to be downloaded as cellular data to the car. The operator than hangs up and steps out of the picture. Also out of the picture is any kind of directional display on the dashboard; Turn-by-Turn is voice-only, even if the car has an integrated LCD or multiline radio display. OnStar pitches this as a safety feature of sorts, because there's "no data entry or touch screen to distract drivers from the road." A driver also does not need to look at a particularly complex upcoming intersection with two streets branching off to the right and one to the left. Turn-by-Turn uses a car's integrated GPS receiver for position fixes, as well as an ABS sensor for dead reckoning (in tunnels and urban canyons, for example). Directions are spoken through the car radio, and you can ask to hear the directions again or to preview the upcoming route instruction. OnStar downloads a "navigation corridor" -- the proper route plus adjacent street -- wide enough to steer you back on course if you stop at a highway off ramp or get moderately lost. If you're way off course, you're asked to download additional directions. The exact pricing hasn't been set, although Turn by Turn is just a month from launching in the Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS, followed by the sportier Cadillac STS in June. OnStar president Chet Huber projects the cost will be somewhere between the two current packages: Directions & Connections, $399 (or $34.95 a month), and Safe & Sound,$199 (or $16.95 a month); thus our estimate of about $10 a month more than the base-level Safe & Sound. That's also what cellular providers such as Verizon typically charge for cellular navigation; VZ Navigator runs $10 a month or, for vacationers and business travelers, $3 for a 24-hour period. Huber said OnStar will consider selling trip packs -- 10 for $30, perhaps? OnStar Turn-by-Turn isn't available retroactively. Other than the initial Buick and Cadillacs, users must own a 2007 or later GM vehicle equipped with the so-called "Gen 7" OnStar platform and anti-lock brakes -- a potential market of 1 million vehicles. OnStar representatives didn't talk specifics about acceptance and renewal rates. Most industry analysts say OnStar has had a tougher time maintaining revenues per equipped car, as it has evolved over its decade of existence from a device on costlier cars to universal installation on GM vehicles. What's next for OnStar? Huber says future versions of its nav system might be able to display at least rudimentary navigation information, such as turn arrows, in cars with multi-line radio displays or in cars that have a built-in LCD. But Huber calls that a niche opportunity to reach cars with LCDs that don't also integrate navigation systems. OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation precedes another low cost navigation system by a month. At the March Geneva Auto Show, Microsoft and Fiat will announce a navigation system that uses a rudimentary integrated instrument-panel display; drivers will request trip routing with a GSM cell phone that's connected to the car via Bluetooth. This is expected to be an option, costing about $200. OnStar Press Release The new OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation system advantages include: Safe, Simple Interactions: Hands on the Wheel, Eyes on the Road: No data entry or touch screen to distract drivers from the road; OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation features convenient voice-guided directions delivered through the radio speakers to guide the driver turn-by-turn to the destination. Easy to Use: Press the OnStar blue button, give the advisor an address or point-of-interest destination and directions are sent to the vehicle. Advisor Access: OnStar advisors are available 24-hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days a year. Smart, Intuitive System: Route Corrections: OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation detects when the driver leaves a planned route and automatically offers updated directions to the destination. Pinpoint Positioning: The enhanced GPS system utilized by OnStar’s Turn-by-Turn Navigation, is fully integrated with the vehicle’s ABS module to deliver a more precise positioning solution. Accessible and Affordable Navigation: Available in approximately 1 million GM cars and trucks equipped with GM’s anti-lock brake system in Model Year 2007 and will be expanded further within the portfolio in 2008. Available at a fraction of the cost of other competitive navigation products. Access to OnStar Services: Unlike single-function navigation systems, OnStar Turn-by-Turn Navigation comes in addition to OnStar’s suite of safety, security and peace of mind services. OnStar services, including Turn-by-Turn Navigation, offer advisor and system interaction in English, Spanish and French. Related article:MotorTrend:Onstar Debuts Updated Navigation System At Chicago Auto Show

1) Chinese Pug 2) Shar Pei

1) Say something. 2) Say nothing.

There are just some people you wouldn't want standing behind you when out shooting.

***You Are 33 Years Old***

Wow... I thought the refresh with interior upgrade was cancelled. Fantastic!

Exactly... See 1997-2005 Park Avenue for reference. The overhangs are directly related to the overall styling of the vehicle. You couldn't pull off the Park Avenue's design without them.

I've been staying out of this one to see where it went. This is pretty much the only review that agrees with some of the complaints on this board. The majority reviews have been very favorable. I don't disagree that the Lucerne can be improved, it's just that I think the Lucerne's flaws have been made out to be bigger than they really are. Many people here are so focused on the faults that they can't see how the Lucerne is a good vehicle, good value, and competitive. Competitive does not mean best in class in all categories. A car does not need to win in every category to be considered competent or competitive. It means the vehicle offers what most buyers in that market are looking for and has its own list of advantages compared to competitors. No one has commented that this reviewer received the same 0-60 time in the Lucerne V8 as Edmunds received in the "much lighter" (400 lbs lighter) Avalon with its 5-spd automatic. So performance benefit of the Avalon over the Lucerne is a wash. Since the Lucerne V8 can be had at under $30k, it's hard to say in this class that pricing will be much of a buyer's concern when comparing the two. The V8 Lucerne is very obtainable. Space? Interior and trunk, Lucerne is larger in every dimension. Warranty? Lucerne's warranty is superior to Avalon’s. There’s been debate about why GM doesn’t match Hyundai’s… but the quality ring bearer Toyota needs to add road-side assistance and match Buick’s warranty before people should complain about Buick. Standard OnStar also helps with providing an advantage of Safety & Security. With the new upgrades coming this year, it will even be more of an advantage. The good thing about the Lucerne and Avalon are that they look completely different. This causes much of the decision making to be based on styling. Neither is superior or inferior. They approach the large market differently. Which styling you prefer is not class-indicative. Much of what I've seen of the above article is not objective. It's very opinionated. Lucerne's wood is not obviously fake. It's no more fake looking than the Avalon's. The "torque-less" comment has already been addressed several times. The lower/middle dash material, which everyone is up in arms about, is probably the only material quality issue someone could have. Leather quality? Carpet quality? Door panels? Head-liner quality? Ride? Quietness? Fit/finish? They're all competitive or leading. Yes, even fit/finish. The hard plastic is tastefully grained and matte finished. The stereo controls aren't loose in their plastic housing. The knobs turn with precision. In ebony trim, the center stack is hardly noticeable. Only in light trim does it stand out, which could be addressed by GM coloring it similar to match the dash like how the panel is colored for the headlight controls. The blue interior lighting is traditional for Buick. It looks nice and is inoffensive. Despite one or two reviewers, I have no problem reading anything inside the Lucerne. Perhaps it's because I'm use to reading everything in blue instead of white. Are there things I’d add/change to the interior? Sure: add power tilt/telescoping wheel, heated rear seats, adjustable rear head rests, exchange the hard lower dash material for soft-touch material, and why not… add a power rear window sunscreen. Requesting to change the transmission is not reasonable, because it’s not even available yet. Now after 2007MY, GM won’t have an excuse for that. But the current transmission performs very well, and that’s backed up by several reviews. HIDs or LEDs aren’t actually important to me, they’re just glorified more than anything in magazines and publications. Yes, Lucerne’s image would benefit from offering them or having them standard. Are any of the above changes that I’d do deal breakers to 90% of large car buyers? No. Despite some areas available for improvement, the Lucerne is competitive in its price class.

Which ones? Keep in mind that the A8 has standard AWD, while on some competitors it's optional.

Why did this article read like an obituary?

HHR! when will it have an SS version? Plenty of space and easily washable rear area for the pets:

Thursday, February 09, 2006 Struggles at General Motors GM cuts fail to silence doubters Prominent analyst 'disappointed by the limited cash savings' in restructuring effort. Bill Vlasic / The Detroit News DETROIT -- Shares of General Motors Corp. slid 4 percent Wednesday after a prominent investment analyst downgraded the stock and cast doubt on the effectiveness of GM's turnaround efforts. GM stock closed at $21.99, down 82 cents, in trading on the New York Stock Exchange as Deutsche Bank analyst Rod Lache cut his rating from "hold" to "sell" and lowered his target price for GM shares to $17. The report highlighted the concerns on Wall Street and among investors about the impact of broad cutbacks in white-collar benefits and a 50 percent dividend reduction. Following on the heels of negative reactions to GM's announcement by two major credit rating services, Deutsche Bank said it was "disappointed by the limited cash savings targeted by current restructuring efforts." The report also offered a pessimistic assessment of GM's chances to rebuild its U.S. market share and to cut a deal with the United Auto Workers on the reorganization of bankrupt auto-parts giant Delphi Corp. "Given the extent to which GM's business has deteriorated, it's not clear that GM can in fact be fixed, or whether their competitive disadvantages have already become too acute," the report said. The report questioned whether GM and the UAW are pursuing "aggressive" solutions to issues of pensions and wages for unionized workers at Delphi, which was part of GM before a corporate spinoff in 1999. At the same time, GM continues to face a barrage of national media attention, much of it focusing on whether the giant automaker will be forced to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The TV newsmagazine "60 Minutes" is preparing a story on GM and its uncertain future. Fortune magazine's issue reaching newsstands this week has the headline "The Tragedy of General Motors" on its cover set against a black background. GM Chairman Rick Wagoner has repeatedly vowed that GM has no plans or intention to file for bankruptcy. "These are challenging times for General Motors, certainly among the most challenging in our 100-year history," Wagoner said Tuesday. "But we have solid plans in place to address our weaknesses and take full advantage of our strengths. And I'm convinced we'll emerge as a strong competitor." But Deutsche Bank said the automaker's huge pension and health-care liabilities could sink the company in an economic downturn. "All it would take is a modest auto industry downturn, additional market share losses or mix deterioration, or a few bad pension return years, and GM would likely be forced to seek protection from its liabilities via the courts," Deutsch Bank said. GM on Tuesday said it would cap health-care benefits for about 100,000 U.S. salaried retirees, freeze pensions for salaried workers, and slash the pay of its five top executives and board members. In addition, the company reduced its annual dividend by half to $1 a share, saving $565 million a year. http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...UTO01/602090375

Considering how many competitors there are and it is "Autoshow season" I don't think 14 out of 69 (1/5) is really that bad. As for the "purpose", yes, this is a website dedicated to the improvement and success of General Motors. My point of view… It's not polite to constantly go to a McDonalds restaurant to order a Whopper, complain that McDonald’s patties aren’t square like Wendy's, or demand for the fries to be served to everyone in a cup like at Whataburger (regardless of how convenient it is to drivers). If you don't like McDonald's menu selection, quit going to McDonalds restaurants. It doesn't help or encourage their customer base (who actually like McDonald’s food) if they must constantly "filter" through the negative rhetoric on a daily basis. It destroys the restaurant’s atmosphere and causes faithful customers (and potential new customers) to lose their appetite. Remember, McDonald’s Corporate image and menu selection will not change in a day, week, month, or even a year. It takes time for new ideas to be implemented and old ways of thinking to be erased. For example, McDonald’s new salads, alone, spent 5 years in development thanks to Paul Newman. So, many non-customer facing issues must be dealt with before new menu items make it to the McDonald’s restaurants, regardless of how great the idea is. (And yes, McDonald’s Corporate knows the final product may look healthy but most are still as fattening as the other selections available. Once again, thanks to Paul Newman). Mentioning disappointments and offering useful suggestions to the employees at a particular McDonald’s restaurant are perfectly acceptable and helpful, but please remember the employees behind the counter are not responsible for the menu items and can't implement the above changes. Discussing disappointments with fellow customers can also help, but the restaurants are strictly there to provide interested individuals a place to experience what McDonalds has to offer. There is no guarantee that McDonald’s Corporate will use any particular restaurant for feedback on existing/future menu items. You must contact McDonald’s Corporate directly if you wish to receive appropriate attention to valid concerns and/or complaints about the McDonalds menu.

Oh... thanks for the clarification Yeah, I think I would have enjoyed Denver also. I've been there several times, have family there, and I always get along with the natives. The few times I went out with now ex-coworkers, I had a blast. Never know, the techie market in Denver may draw my attention again one day. It depends on the stability here. Austin and Dallas are always on my list also. Yeah... I wouldn't recommend coming to Seattle right now... the rainfall this winter has been amazing. Wait till we dry out

Is that Cherry Creek Reservoir in the foreground? It looks awfully familiar. If it is, then I've been there. It was interesting to find a beach near Denver. I almost moved to South Aurora 6 years ago. It was a toss-up between Seattle/Bellevue & Denver/Aurora. Guess which one I picked

Guilty... I'm a Drawn Together fan. It is extremely raunchy, but cool.

Article here: http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/06/news/compa...rtune/index.htm

no, just in Quebec.

If my next home overlooks a golf course, you can bet I'll get one of these