Mr.Krinkle

i think the koreans will do a better job of that than gm.

is this another pariah? im the most reasonable person youll ever meet. or never meet. i dont have blind loyalties, ive said it before i think its silly with so many good products from all makes and manufacturers. for what the camry is thats fine...i just look for more in a car. besides, just wait long enough and theyrre gonna have more problems and more problems and then you can replace camry with sonata. everyones wuick to jump on the bandwagon. what happened to individuality?

dont get your undies all bunched man, chill out a sec first off it was rhetorical. i wasnt expecting an answer. its nice to know some arfe so eager to share all they know. my opinion is mine-exactly. that doesnt mean i dont know what going on so whats your point. a time machine? doubtful. were here and now aint no going back. every single review be it cars or movies or whatever always deal in what you should like. some people pay closer attention than others. they listen. they follow. did you ever not go to a movie based on someone elses opinion, maybe because they said the subplot felt tacked on or they used bad lighting. if so yourre a chumpo im glad you know so much about toyota and their biography and how they rose to the top. i think everyone here does. its no mystery really the topic at hand is gms recovery. not how wonderful toyota is. thats my point. i dont think they are all that special. its not what i look for in a car. they are boring and stale. i feel like falling asleep inside them. frankly, i dont want gm to build a camry. i want a car of a different quality. its not my preference, therefore it is not my standard. its well regarded and thats fine but if you like the camry so much then buy one. gm wont build it for you. edit: im not saying for you to buy one, in general if thats what you want go get it. people switch loyalties they just usually dont switch back. it dont matter what you build. thts the problem they are facing. im hoping the newer products, the ones in the "pipeline" will change opinions because nothings been working yet.

ya' know, with iran ready to explode wouldnt it be funny if gm would ask for their humvees back. id like to see the look on georgies face.

lutz clearly has the vision of where he wants this company to be in the future. and perhaps because of him, and people like him there will be a future.

they say thats what people want but as long as they offer a choice of tranns i know id rather have a 4 or even 5. for now anyway. i just cant see shifting so many times just to stop at the next red light.

i think they need to break the mold--like you say the chrystler stuff is out of the box and doing quite well. i see those cars all day and night. once they have the more visually stunning cars the rest should follow suit. after all people do want a car that looks good too. maybe even in lieu of the finer qualities...maybe. toyota could probably sell the camry as was with no problems for another 5 years. i have no input on the aura but i personally do like the g6 esp the sedan. i think its sharp looking and always catches my eye when i see one. its rather refreshing but sadly not without its faults. the cobalts too for that matter. i only see these products getting better and improving overall. i think thees a good foundation so far and with the proper tweaking can be more of a success. wheres that crystal ball when i need it? edit: speaking of hyundai, they really took a giant chance with that warranty. i think that and that alone was enough to secure the majority of their market. of course it doesnt hurt they have competent cars too. and all was forgotten after that. so far...maybe year 7 or 8 will be the one that breaks them...just kidding, but hey ya never know

fair enough.

well touche, then i guess every little bit will help in the grand scheme of things. gas hit 3.00 here today. it was 2.65 last week. honest to goodness.

thats true, but what about the toyota and 55 chevy discussion. what happened to that? being a tough critic doesnt necessarily mean drooling over the competition though. sure i think thnigs can be better--but they really aint so bad as of now. and thats because gms toughest critics have been speaking their minds of late and they know it f*8k or walk. you cant honestly believe your critique means more than mine. or (almost) anyone elses here.

i just thought you were hurling racial epithets. no not really, i thought youd get it. hey, we all entitled to our opinions and to some degree maybe you are correct. but a camry will never have the impat of the original chevy. its not daring, bold, or an emboddiment of the american style and pinache. does it move people--sure does. is it ever going to be a classic...nope

oh, and the message, too

nice use of the word. very nice.

you should be more careful with your choice of words...some may find that offensive. especially when on a computer but which part is more offensive? ahhhhh

does this mean toyotas prices will go through the roof if they are worried about the corrosiveness of the ethanol? better seals and higher quality materials(no, not in a toy!) r & d? makes me wonder why they wouldnt have it already then. edit: the more the merrier anway. perhaps if toyota did in fact release flex fuel cars here, it would give a retroactive credence to GM's million flex fuel cars already here (and are probably ignored by the majority of toyota customers.)

why exactly is that. price features interior or what? i think they are overrated and plain old boring. personally, id rather drive just about anything else. it sounds more like to me that yourre just jumping on the bandwagon. you cant convince me toyota is the standard. its the most prevalant but to be honest, i dont need anyone to tell me what i like or more so, what i should like.

is that so, professor?

There is a certain sporty, elegance that not only has been lacking from Toyota but in the mid segment of the market for many many years. The appliance has come of age.

how in the hell did we get to this back and forth of how wonderful toyota is?

thats really a matter of opinion. until you drive one you realize evrything is just about where you need it. ive never known anyone to not like the ride in those cars. ancient powertrain? many a modern powertrain has met its match. does that really mean anything to you anyway? really now, be honest

maybe the brass would notice if buickman climbed on a cross and nai...nevermind. pardon the impending blasphemy. i did stop it in time though. people think there are too many divisions so one got cut. i dont mean just any old one (unintended pun) but one nonetheless. its gone now. according to you then gm cant do anything right and their biggest mistake wasnt hiring you so now its payback time? and everyone you run into has to hear about how great and about how bright you are and how foolish everyone is for not listening. time to let it go, man. p.s. no one cares what your friend thinks.

"You cant drill into the comsumer that the Bonneville is the ultimate Pontiac and then remove it after almost 50 years because another car (G8)is better after all." i think thats been the problem with rwd. aorund these so called snow states anyway. things just flip flop. the bonneville is the ultimate pontiac but thats also because its the biggest.

some would rather be hit with a stick or stone than suffer the lasting and damaging effects of words. the bruises that you cant see heal are the ones that will last longer. so just end it already...tasteful is always subjective. just ask the supreme court.

yes, thats absolutely correct...the more models that are introduced, the more the slice of the pie will decrease. essentiallhy its an arbitrary number. thats just the way it goes, thankfully its a rather large sandbox and everyone can play.

the name is classy and i personally dont have a problem with it but sh*t happens. i do believe in general it wasnt the best at this time...and if i had to choose what went first that probably would be the one. from sheer superficiality. i didnt even say oldsmoboile = old but you did. i just think it was a business decision that had to be made (sadly), regardless, i doubt any other brands are going to be eliminated. buick, pontiac, and chevy all serve their purpose. they exist for a reason. have you ever seen a civic or accord from a few generationsa ago? they are nothing at all what they are now. completely transformed. they could have called it anythinf they wanted but didnt and the name is in tact even though it has no resemblance of its names sake. these american brands have heritage. in my opinion its better to put them down than to bastardize them. i wish they still made a "bonneville" but as long as pontiac is around a g8 or whatever they call it will be that car. and thats what i want. they just have to get around to making it....which i believe they are now.