Mr.Krinkle

theres a lot of info here and some of it is mixed up. they say fuel efficiency is at the fore yet there were huge gains for the new 900 suvs so maybe then its just that new product is what is selling. i think it odd that these blanket statements and predictions are used then someone bucks the trend, seemingly negates it--yet maintains their position. of course no one is gonna sink money into a true gas hog but i think most people are basically content with mpg 18 city and up. at least. overall it wasnt really a good month for anyone, except honda whove been creeping up very steadily for a while now...civics the little trucks...again newer. and it shows. theres always a higher demand for new product regardless, and that is always what will sell the best, and probably always will. who wants to trade up for the same model or lower. not too many. ford trucks took a beating but the cars are showing good signs, again new so... i definately think the 9% drop off in f150's are hold outs for the upcoming silverados...well see about that one i guess. the new rav 4 up...camry slightly, but its very early to infer anything about that... my guess is once gm finally gets some newer or refreshed models out there numbers will again begin to change. shocking huh? maybe if its an off cycle there will be huge gains, but thats (very) optimistic. i honestly think people are slowly becoming less afrraid to give a chevy a chance again...or a pontiac, buick, saturn etc.... caddys took a dive, but theyrre old...and people want new. its a sort of holding pattern right now. they predicted flat and thats basically wha this is. flat. nothing to worry about...yet.

id just like to add i have yet to see a single one, fj. on the other hand i see more and what seems like more h3's every day. more than i care to remember.

wow...does anyone here get a check from toyota if the fj sells more than h's? better go check your mailbox then.

does that breakfast cereal line ever work... im gonna git me a handful of sayaka tonight ...ooo yeah

es, gs, is 2 and a half. aint hard to confuse em when they dont mean much.

my mistake, it was the gs thats sales are rather tame. dont roll your eyes though because it still doesnt diminish the point about robots selling souless cars.

huh? no one is bashing the es. the sales are lackluster and they are searching for a new approach to sell them ironically, a company that is criticized for its products lacking soul and passion has decided to go with a campaign that uses robots to sell its merchandise. hows that for juxtaposition?

ehtanol can be made from other living crops so then those crops will become depleted. these arent the asnwers to solve an energy crisis. you can collect all the dog$h! in the world and it still wont equal anything near what hundreds of thousands of acres of corn will produce...you cant cut down trees for this so wood pulp is kindve limited too. if you used all the cow and horse$h! you could find what would you use to grow the corn and other crops you want to turn into fuel... theres got to be alternatives and plenty of them...no one thing is going to replace oil.

appolo, century, regal, skylark, roadmaster, riviera. beretta,celebrity,lumina, vega, citation, 454 anything! bonneville, fiero, 6000, sunfire, phoenix...ventura catalina. and of cousre the grand ville the list goes on and on...obviously the chevette and some others would probably never be considered.duh...but there are plenty to choose from and if they wanted to resurrect some of olds retired nameplates theres that option too...dont know how others would feel about that one though. i think its safe to say the citation is off the list. ya think? as would the 6000 and fiero-maybe. that might be like reviving the pinto. however...vw thought the rabbit was a good idea too so who knows. point is there is plenty to pick through...certainly no shortage of names with a history as rich as gm's. they just need to do them justice or else theyll piss a lot more people off. we saw how fickle some people can become when the gto was reintroduced...i personlly had no qualms about it, in fact i like the way in which it was done in as much as it was a plain wrapper on an otherwise fantastic car.

so whats left a far as names...tempest, nova, chevelle, .......bastards. theyll get the camaro out sooner than later...as for everything else, gotta wait and see. this is one of those things that leaves more questions than answers...nice way to stir up the pot. edit: the audi le mans concept had to be scrapped a couple months ago because pontiac still owns those rights...so among others, perhaps a possibility too.

basically if car buying humans dont get the allure of the lex, we should take the "word" of a robot...and they wonder why people dont think they have heart, much less soul. at least it doesnt look like the camry

yup- especially when these newer "innovations" fall flat on their face. or are overridden with bugs. and the worst part i think is it costs a helluva lot more to discover these limitations and nuances.

http://www.brandweek.com/bw/news/recent_di...t_id=1002425457 thats the question one ad asks. sounds more like conditioning to me. if your product doesnt naturally illicit passion, emotion, or desire the next best thing is to instill that idea with more phoniness similar to the camry ads. brainwashing at its best. es- the car you never knew you always wanted.

certainly is a testament to that real world gas mileage. nicely done.

owning a camry is like having a casio watch. yeah sure it tells the time, but does anyone really give a rats ass?

youd think it would be such a shock when someone else has a recall that it would be front page "newsworthy"...but instead we get puff pieces like "guess whos in the news again with another recall...yes thats right, its..." f that. it happens to everyone. join the party. childrens toys that are recalled are more newsworthy than this garbage most of the time.

e85 is a great stepping stone but its not enough to rid ourselves of foreign oil dependence. as it is now it would use about 70% of corn crops for starters. so basically wed have to import corn instead...which really is fine by me compared to the alternatives the downside i guess is that id just suck to drop 20 bucks for a bag of popcorn at the movies. the problem i think is that every time this issue has ever come up in the past everyone just figured theyd be dead by the time it became a real issue. now, it seems as if the time is ticking faster. there needs to be a variety to completely wean us. who the hell knows. damn you sweet crude.

gotta add that .9 of a penny. actions speak a lot louder than words in this instance. "we need to get over our addiction to foreign oil" line and not really taking any proper steps to get that point across speaks volumes. the only way to really make a dent in demand is to have more options when it comes to how we fill up and of course conservation. unfortunately that will probably mean less money for anyone with an interest in the oil biz. if thats not a conflict of interests...i dont know what is.

the reason i think this got so "off topic" was because some people dont want to accept the kappa cars for what they are...2 seat roadsters and nothing more. in the interest of time and money it was put together at a quick clip and delivered a sold out performance. down the road is zeta, lambda, and epsi 2 which are all as far as i know significantly more flexible and can be tailored to meet almost any demand. my point earlier about the y-body only being used for basically one car, (now 2 xlr)...doesnt seem to draw the same criticisms as this platform has drawn. no one begrudges the cars for what they are merely what they think they could have been. the original point is that it is great news for gm and perhaps a sign of things to come. my only question is...if they had decided to in some way figure out how to make it more flexible and spent the extra time and lots more money, would we be more like to just sit back and wait or complain that the new cars are taking such a long time to get through development? theyrre here now and the rest is on the way. thats how i see it.

im just curious as to why it only took three complaints. not to say its not a problem, and chevy trucks have had break light issues in the past...but only three complaints was enough to get the ball rolling.

yup...these real world shots really let it sink in how bad ass this car looks.

all of this is pure conjecture.. longer and more money is the best i can come up with right now. ya know about timetables and cost--the camaro is almost for surely getting built and yet its been taking how long? gauging reaction, feasibility and such. its been a while. too damn long. it should have never left in the first place, and we al know they are going to build it so whats the hold up? but i digress. ya know gm's got some cash, lots of expenses are around the block(buyouts contracts, hc, etc) and a vast empire of cars and trucks to look out for. thats a great point by the way about the trucks program and simutaneously producing other platforms. how thin do they need to be stretched? now i said they have cash--but enough for all that at the same time? one day at a time.

croc--the "more" i was refering to is the epsilons and even the sigmas that caddy has been blessed with. i think the general mightve been in AA for a while and takes these things one day at a time. awd-fwd-and rwd all in one package. everyone pretty much agrees flexibility wouldve been great. its a no-brainer. however it was a project that got spearheaded by lutz, and rushed into production ahead of the upcoming platforms. it makes a statement. dont you rememebr the first glimpse of the solstice and then hearing the expected date of production? delta and j fell apart so it was going to take longer. vague, i know but unequivocally taken longer. im thinking of it as a sneak preview kind of a deal. i really dont see the harm in that. people are paying attention a little more closely now and when new and better products get to market, we can say...i remember those neat little roadsters.

the sky was never meant to be anything more than an attention getter. it was built to pave the way for saturns rebirth so to speak. it was never meant for volume. no one ever questions how come the y bodys never got used for anything else. im sure they could have made a bunch of kick ass cars with it. different prices and styles all while riding in the giant coat tails of the car that spawned it. doesnt anyone have faith that new platforms are on the way. i know we all wanted them yesterday but $h!...time and money play a role too. im still pissed at pontiac for letting bonne go. i thought it was a damn shame but you cant make the proverbial omelette. if they still exist in some form or another and not relying on buicks as large near luxury sedans...the next generation of pontiac should be hot. as far as kappa being limited...so what. theres some good that came out of it, and soon enough there will be more, maybe not the same kappa but more nonetheless.

are you threatening me from behind your computer desk? what is the meaning of that? yeah im kinda new here and it didnt take me all that long to figure out how full of yourself you are. like i said i dont care to banter with someone who needs sycophantic whining and bellyaching to brighten up his day. and then berates, belittles, and demeans others when they dont agree you pompous dink. is that what you think banter is? you despised gm's yes man but what position do you try to keep people in. its your way or the highway and i dont dig that. i have no problem telling you where to go and how to get there. i hope a moderator gets a chance to read your threats and has a discussion with you and bring you back down to earth. taking sides and not adding anything to this thread but lies, propaganda, and threats. i may have some sass occasionaly but its usually in responce to personal attack and is tantamount to self defense. but i aint never threatened nobody, ever. and what i think you meant to say was that "would just watch what i say, if i were you i . what you said is stating the obvious.