turbo200

please name those bland asian choices and what qualifies each and every one. remember those asians come from different car companies with entirely different engineering, offering lots of differences, substantial and unsubstantial that add up to very different product choices. it's worth mentioning here, a lot of times it takes a few of those asian companies just one product to equal more than what 3 or 4 product at GM in volume.

whatever. when do you know what you're talking about, ever? your views are incessantly vapid and like a chorus line of defend GM chants. post after post is nothing but a reset button to cheerlead and detract from productive discourse. you're a yes man and that is only hurting the company you care for. leave the objective discourse to the grown ups! look reg. my argument is a solid one that you have yet to debunk. I simply argued equity for a brand goes down when you have a competing version of the same car you're selling, inter-company. the fact that there are now four versions of the same exact car hurt each car's ultimate success and unique attributes. that in turn takes away from the brand and the distinct products if offers and segments it competes in, which is why we've seen so many discussions on the net lately about which brand is most expendable based simply on the similarity of the product at each brand. when you have brands supposedly built on different philosophies yet the product reflects nothing of this, you end up having a brand that unnecessary and lost in a circular dance. and so you hear things like, 'since chevrolet covers the luxury truck segment already with Tahoe and heavy features like on the Traverse, there's no need for Buick or GMC', or ' since Chevy has the SS brand, there's no need for Pontiac,' or ' what use is Saturn when all its product is covered by other brands, including Chevy'. I beleive making a Lambda for Chevy is a good idea. I don't beleive there should be 4 versions of anything that is so similar. I beleive in platform sharing when you are thinking outside of the box, utilizing the resources you have to the fullest to make the biggest selling proposition. What Chevy just did with Traverse was eat a lot of market share from the other three. it's worth mentioning this is yet another gas guzzling SUV for GM when it's car line is severely and woefully outdated relative to the competition.

reread the post and check the argument. it's about chipping away at a brand's distinct cars, identity. i said it's differentiated and I said the average person will see the difference, won't automatically think of a rebadge....but it still goes after the same market, since all of these overlap in price and segment and even the 'luxurious' Enclave isn't all that different in price. it just means GM doens't manage thier brands well. you don't need four mainstream SUVs. It's the same argument with G6, Aura, Malibu. they're essentially the same car with different skins, it's not quite enough to say they're going after different markets. EDIT: with design, you have one metric of aiming a car at a certain segment of the population. however, unlike other carmakers, GM releases 4 versions of the same vehicle all with the same engineering and features and expects design to be enough to say they are 'climbing up the Sloan ladder', that's taken directly from the article, if this is what GM still thinks is offering a ladder, they are truly living in another world

you got it man. the sorry thing for GM is this could be one more move that portends to a drastic downsizing. clearly they are short for cash. the other carmakers, MB and BMW, are going to stick to the driveline that has given thier vehicles reputations around the world for great suspension/handling and good looks. they are just going to evolve the tech to the point where they can still do it in America and around the world. nobody said the luxury market was going to crumble anytime soon because of gas prices. EDIT: if they cancel Acadia they lose GMC's current high volume SUV and the biggest selling Lambda. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. With gas prices, they are definitely regretting doing so many Lambdas now.

this is what I said about it at Cz28 keep the escalade flavor alive and you will retain the world class status of the product, loosen anything that makes it a star against competitors and you will lose the one true pillar Cadillac has. Escalade succeeds on the basis of its design more than anything, it's an elegant, rugged, attack-all-paths of life, bold, ostentatious, yet still refined and sophisticated machine with dramatic curb appeal. it's the big truck that makes you feel strong while showing you've arrived. lose any of that with lambda, or don't improve on that formula with lambda and you can kiss any equity cadillac has goodbye. yes the cadillac brand is in danger of losing relevance as it is now since their one true calling card is the Cadillac SUV. No, the sedans aren't enough at this point. they will need to hope the upcoming big sedan, CTS wagon and coupe are enough to keep them in the limelight. the SRX replacement on Theta-Epsilon looks weak, not something you should associate with a Cadillac and not something a large segment of luxury SUV owners want. the cheaper rigs can pull off the girly, less muscular look and still get away with some segment of the pie, but the real leaders have a lot of power to thier look. my opinion may change on that upon seeing it in person. Escalade will need to retain that powerful look, with the unmistakable Cadillac fascia and presence, and retain elements of ride/handling and power that have helped Escalade succeed in the past. Escalade should go for the bank, modify the existing [Lambda or whichever] platform to include all aluminum construction, make it truly deserving of the Cadillac name, go for supreme handling prowess. If they want to truly take on the BMW name that's what they must do. IF they want to be a slightly better Lincoln, go on and do exactly what Lincoln will be doing, rebadge a FWD/AWD platform with some meaningful style changes and absolutely no enhancement to the underlying driving experience that defines a product and brand. Cadillac used to be the star of the GM fold, the one that was actually being managed to compete with the best offered in America and abroad. So far they've had little success, measurable but small compared to how far the other brands have come through successful product introductions. The brand has been left behind, and GM's money problems have as much to do with it now as incompetence had to do with it in 2001-2006. Ultimately, I'd rather them keep the existing Escalade longer, rack up the profits elsewhere, and revisit the Escalade brand when resources are plentiful and Cadillac can be restored to dignity, Escalade and CTS aside.

it's also consistent with a trend set by GM and the other domestics of rebadging en masse. yes, you can say the Chevy Lamda is 'differentiated', but this is still the same concept of car, the same class of vehicles. it would be nice if the only ones that existed were the acadia and the enclave, with the enclave going further up a luxury scale. i'll maybe take more time to expound on this later on. the problem is other automakers usually sell two versions of the same car, one mainstream and one luxurious. here we have four versions of the same car, chipping away at each brand's individual uniqueness, character, and exclusivity. no, to the casual observer, they won't say these are the same cars, immediately, but I would wager a person who has experience shopping at GM, sees the four cars since they are considering a crossover and deduces they are the same cars, then of course there is the press detailing it. bottom line is these four cars are pulling from the same consumers. I don't see the point to all four when they're not distinct in thier positioning. it was more excusable seven months ago when the cars weren't so pivotal

another SUV, another example of where GM has been investing its money and where it has not. interesting that there's all this prejudgement of what the market thinks of GM done here and yet the SUV market has always been on fire for GM, just not the cars. now we see that people are abandoning SUVs when the pocketbook tightens, and they naturally turn to where they've always known the best cars are produced at, not at GM. this is not the kind of product GM needs at this time. had they understanding to balance thier product portfolio, they could have invested this money in redoing the Delta platform for Pontiac or Chevy, or heck Buick even...have this product out already and have plenty of fuel efficient cars out. However GM is now learning the lesson of what a balanced portfolio means.

the wheels on your LT are my favorite design for the malibu. obviously the V6 LTZ are hot too, but for a 4 cyl model GM went out of thier way to make an attractive design and I commend them for it, so this is my favorite model of the malibu line and i definitely would want to own one like yours. I don't know if it was you who was looking for a new car...I think you are. I remember wanting to post that you should consider Malibu cause it has such a young professional look to it, it just looks like an urban professional hipster's kind of car, one that wants to remain modest. but I remember reading too you had fun with the G6 coupe, and fun is an important consideration when you're plunking down all this cash, too. back to the malibu though, I've said it various times, but it really is the best looking sedan out there under $30k.

yes, they are great, and the wheels are a huge part of Malibu's upscale feel and appeal. it's amazing that we've been hitting them at this site for so many years on these points and they finally got around to addressing the critiques....now the car is universally praised. sat in one the other day just for a freshening, the dash material really is upscale and expensive in feel, helps the rest of the car, enhances the quality feel all around.

Who are the analysts at GM? Why are they listening to such bad advice seemingly all the time. your last statement is succinct in the problem at GM...too much marketing costs not a lot of actual cost benefit going on there. with regards to the product....any analysts worth his salt would have seen the Saturn product being a boon to the other more proven showrooms, the ones with actual dealer penetration, with tons of consumer exposure, and with actual heritage and value there [despite the notion some may have the image is irreparable]. retro clothing, retro music, retro style....is all in...again astra makes so much sense as a volume Pontiac, the true successor to the last Grand Am, if a sedan were also sold here. turbo that thing up and it's the volume performance-oriented aggressive sedan/hatch Pontiac needs. The Sky indeed makes a lot of sense at Chevy. a Vue would have made a great Rendevous replacement. Aura isn't needed with competence in place at Chevy a la Malibu. GM is sitting on its hands with regards to Astra. No major advertising leads to one major conclusion, confusion about where to go with it. they don't want to spend the money it takes to get people to know it's 32 mpg, affordable, and real premium. because it's already a money loser in a time they can't afford to lose more. Wouldn't it have made more sense to try another 'experiment' with Saturn? talk to the dealers and propose solutions for turning them into volume showrooms. What about a conversion to all certified used sales for GM with the promise of friendly sales experience, rebranded as a 'GMMax'. What about a consolidation to four lower end models, allowing an inexpensive and no pressure route along with hip designs to rival Scion. after all, the willy-nilly buyers attracted to Saturn's sales policy [read:check the wording, only saying those whose sole attraction was the sales policy, not the product which is now attracrtive in its own right] were there because they are low end buyers...

here here, remove the 3.6 DI and trim level badging on the Chevys and other cars, it's not tasteful and ends up adding unnecessary clutter. The CTS doesn't need to distance itself as a more exclusive model, regargless of trim. with any car, more upscale trim should be enough to differentiate the more expensive models from less expesnsive models. so malibu LTZ and LT badging, are just a tiny blight on a perfect car. it's great these unveils are coming soon, hopefully more will follow, Lord knows GM and all of us need the break in news. to the chick angle, it's clear they play a prominent role in decision-making [overbearing women, they can't help but try and compensate and rule the home, just like Eve did and look what she ended up doing ]...but it's also clear they are drawn to masculine designs......so going for a softer image isn't usually the answer. we'll see if it helps the SRX; being too tough was never its problem imo....

one more thing: I don't know that I buy into the notion that Saturn doesn't or hasn't gotten enough advertising. they were adequate in thier rotation last year bud admittedly this year have died down drastically. as with GM as usual, the presentation sucked. The image of what Saturn was becoming was what exactly? And where's the focused advertising on the engineering and product features of each model? why the heck should I trust a Saturn is safe enough, reliable enough. Oh ya I learned from Edmunds it's a GM, so that's a good thing, but I only learned that because I became potentially interested only after two of my friends remarked on how wonderful thier Aura was, and they only got the Aura because they had previously owned Saturns. otherwise I would have NO interest, I mean your commercials and message don't engage me at all. especially compared to the other brands and the legacy they have....

That is a huge example of stupidity; one of Saturn's bigger problems is limited exposure and dealer network. It's hard to expect a brand to do well when many don't even know where to find or if it exists, or care that it exists. OTOH, many do know Saturn exists. Identity, corporate, or brand-wise is covered by two things: actual product and the image you use to sell that product. For many years Saturn have been the friendly car company, thier cars were quirky, different and at worst downright silly. thier was an interest for a time to see where the brand could go, and certainly the method of selling the cars seemed appealing at the time when people were just understanding the car sales process, but now times have changed, people are informed, and they enter a dealer with a command of product and cost knowledge, they want to make a deal, they understand the basic rule of always saying no to the dealer, in many cases anyways. the time passed for Saturn to take advantage of public goodwill, and then Saturn became Ion and L-series, silly cars with silly faces, where the execution severly damaged the brand in people's eyes. if this was all they were going to become you can cross them off the list, they aren't engaged in the real competition enough. those silly faces became instinctive identifiers, somehting BMW, MB get to the core, and GM unlike it's domestic partner Ford has yet to figure out. The faces are what people remember, and that face of the Ion and L-series became a quick reference point for a quacked out brand. Now Saturn has a face that is not altogether memorable or distinctive. Their face has appeared elsewhere, derivations of it. the face launches the idea of what a brand is in people's minds. while attractive, the new face of Saturn does not instantly set them apart, like say Nissan's did in 2002, which helped re-establish that brand, at a time when this kind of reaction is really necessary since GM is relaunching the brand. Now Saturn's positioning within GM is dubious at best. Where are they taking it? Is it supposed to compete with Acura/VW/Volvo? Well, the current pricing doesn't reflect that, and GM doesn't seem eager to market that image on thier most premium car, the premium compact Astra, with its slight premium price increase over other compacts. If it is supposed to be premium, where does that leave Pontiac and Buick, the supposed premium brands. If it's supposed to be mainstream, which is what the pricing reflects now [and yet product is faltering with affordable mainstream pricing], why the hell is it there? You have Chevrolet which is an all encompassing, incredibly exposed, well respected brand, and also might I mention seems to have a very easy time of making cars hits all due to its massive exposure, consumer familiarity, and available dealer network. So what is Saturn? And will product like Insignia and the new Astra be able to command a premium price increase underneath the Saturn label? It's already dubious anyone sees Saturn as a premium label. I will inject some phenomonal Pontiac bias here, Ponitac otoh, seems to have no problem selling those above $30k G8s, in terrible consumer climates, in conquest markets like my own, and with no product/advertising exposure. My bottom line, I don't know if Saturn should go because of the dealer costs and what not. However, this is a very tricky pickle that GM has gotten themselves into. It'd be a lot easier to turn Saturn into a boutique Scion-esque brand, that wouldn't require as much effort as turning them into a full line brand and attracting the kinds of people [read: conservative older folks] that look into those kinds of brands.

8c is sold for ~200k, very limited volumes have been completely picked up across the world, well as far as the last time I read. it's definitely a car you want to pull up in, and something very different from the ferraris and lambos of the world, more cool and subtle like an aston while still being extravagant of course, you pay that much for something!

it is very cool, and there's the beautiful 8c. I love them both, equally and for different reasons.

Saturn and GMC....have the least distinct role and most redundancy......Saturn = Euro? What does that mean? to the average consumer? european style is something all the brands have and are adopting, witness Malibu, Invicta, new Chevy Cobalt, etc......so what's the difference between a Euro Malibu and Euro Aura? With Pontiac you have the pretense of aggression and performance, and the brand historically is known for this. It's cemented. Saturn's image is not. Malibu has proven, along with others, you design the right product, and people will be convinced of its worthiness, regardless of branding. GMC otoh is also pure rebadges, and with our market potentially undergoing drastic change in the future [welcome urban city car, Chevy Groove's for everyone], it's future to me seems questionable and at worst an anchor holding the rest back. I can't think of one single product GMC could do that the other brands couldn't. It was justifiable for it to exist in the past when profit margins were heavy and truck platforms were plentiful, but Yukon really is a lynchpin for GMC.

I'm not going to pretend like I know the man, and I don't base my understanding of people on three short articles, it's also thier work and continuous demonstrations of character. however, this does give insight into the character of the man, he seems even-handed and his understanding seems far-reaching, he seems like he has a perspective on the scope of the worldwide market. that's good. if his accomplishments are as you paint them, he could very well be a natural successor... in reference to the time for perfect execution, I beleive with the pressures on the market and GMNA's own precarious position, I believe the time is now and the next two years....the car industry in America may undergo radical change in the next few years

true. I could. I don't know when this new car thing will be happening yet, I'd like to go GM, but A3 is really appealing on the inside, as well as being sporty and elegant on the outside. but then I could wait for any number of other cars, Insignia is also tempting there. Camaro is coming sooner than that. I do know for sure, I will go with something I like next time around, Civic is not quite there, good drive notwithstanding. I'm also looking for something younger, since I am young and do still wanna live that

astra 5 door might make a great purchase at the end of summer. interesting review you got here, got me going on the astra again. I will say I really like the looks of the 5-door, but being a design snob the roofline and c-pillar shape look somewhat outdated to me, especially since I can picture the Cobalt's so clearly. A less attentive person would not know or care. The sunroof is fantastic, I found the cloth to be adequate, great even. The Astra feels like a quality piece, and to me it's closest competitor is the A3, because imo, golf isn't all that attractive, so if I want a new hatch it's either A3 or Astra...and I don't like the Volvo anymore [too demure]...... or look at older hatches... I want a sporty hatch bad...but it's still a while away most likely

I have to say if Aveo is losing sales it's all to do with Yaris [and to a lesser extent Versa, probably some Koreans too]. Not totally downplaying Fit here, but I do see the price difference as substantial. Yaris is the one probably with the sales crown even though Aveo had a head start there. The reason? The trump card of these cars as is obvious is fuel economy, but this just plays such a strong role in getting cars that are honestly a big downgrade still in terms of refinement and character.....when compacts like the Civic, MAzda3, Corolla, and even Cobalt have gotten so good and much roomier, they're definitely taking the place of where the lower end midsize used to be at, as those cars get bigger and pricier. I'm going to defend Carbiz and the Aveo on this one, and try to enhance positivity. Objectively speaking, I really like Aveo. No, it isn't a game changer, and you're right, the cars they need to be producing need to be stand outs. Design wise I'll say Aveo is attractive, but I would dump the innocuous front and rear fascia as well as go for a more substantial look and better stance next time around, enhance the sport factor and you'll attract more males. The obvious most important deficieny with Aveo are engine and suspension/overall drive. These will be fixed next time around, however it's correct to say the importance of these two cannot be understated. GM in its characteristic is a one step forward two steps backwards kind of company, so with design they got it just about right but when you talk about suspension sophistication and handling ability it's gonna leave any import fan who already has a perception of American cars as being inferior with a bad taste in his mouth, the consumer is a lot more educated nowadays and does notice the difference between a tighter, more stable car that stops well and with less drama and one that does not. This would have been a perfect car five years ago, but the competition has upped its game. That being said, Aveo is a competitor based on quality and design alone. It's more attractive inside and out than major competition [can't speak for actual quality or fits on the inside though, which is obviously important]. When the Fiesta comes along you're argument will be strongest for seeing Aveo as being blown out the water, but right now it's still kind of a compelling package, even as it's biggest calling card, fuel economy, is a dud.

debating you is like walking into a brick wall, no wonder you find success in selling cars. you're persistent, hard-headed, and oblivious to facts around you. and this is me taking the high road. the media as well as consumers are reacting to malibu, cts, lambda, escalade, and before that silverado and 900 Suvs because they're great. period. good concepts of what each should be in the appropriate segment, being targeted at the consumer vying in those segments. Media is only 35% of the equation, the rest is buyer's aptitude and choice. you underestimate consumers, it must be the kinds of consumers you're dealing with. you don't seem to get out in the real world enough. real world buyers make thier own decisions that reflect on influences but also experience and weighing one voice with another to reach thier own conclusions. people reacting to the malibu are making a choice to do so. when impala came out it was also generally well liked in the press, with some going so far as to call it a wash with the then-introd camry. you didn't see a migration of buyers towards that car, no improved sales, no improved resale value, same incentives.... on that note, going back to the brick wall, i will remind you that impala sells ~120k retail cars a year. buyers only choose 120k cars a year. resale value reflects the desirability of impala. incentives are always abundant. real world transaction prices are the among lowest for a large car [in the family sedan sector].

Saudis have announced they will increase production by 200,000 barrels/day next month. I just hope this is a huge lesson to us all, to understand who is really screwing us over. we need energy independence. i've also read a solid report on the commodities, with the conclusion the drop in oil could be substantial one day soon, maybe $25-50/day. I just want to see it happen.

How do domestics get people back into the showroom? Chevrolet Malibu, Ford Mustang, Chrysler 300= Great DESIGN the Malibu is an example of Chevy/GM penetrating anti-GM market segment of midsize sedan sector, tough market conditions, incredibly competitive market segment....and they are up in volume, up in conquests, and actually selling retail around here. Both Malibu and G8 have actual presence at the local dealer, Malibu and G8 are the most in stock in selection for the cars. this is a local dealer that never had a Monte Carlo, doesn't have one Impala on the lot, has three Aveos, usually has a selection of about ten Cobalts, and is a sea of trucks. on the Pontiac side there's been times when the G6 is in stock, they had a few verts/coupes regularly for a little while, some Solstii, but lots and lots of GMC, including Acadias and a lesser but still substantial inventory of Enclaves. bottom line in all the laying out of thier inventory: they order what sells around here. that the Malibu now occupies the most selection of cars they have, is a good indicator for that car, and the selection constantly moves. there are retail sales of Malibu now around here, that in itself is a miracle. Miracle of GOOD DESIGN. just for emphasis, it's the great surface elements/transitions [this is key and help make cars what they are in terms of modern looks], the great transitions, the intersting character, the great attention to upscale details, the great attention to upscale lines that make Malibu a winner

I think it's a great idea that they made it a special edition. they should offer more custom editions for the rentals. something to be seen in [i.e Malibu two-tone with chrome wheels], something more for the luxo set [one off metallic grey paint scheme Lucerne with flashy wheels], something to be exotic in a la this car...more appealing cars to rent, potentially more buyers falling in love.

it's a great blue. the bulish gray color is all over here on new 3er coupes and the new c-class. it's the new import color du jour, and I can understand it, elegant, shows the lines well, and it's just a great color.