turbo200

Malibu is relatively entirely Euro influenced, aside from a large Chevy grille [whose overall aesthetic presentation originated with Audi] and Corvette-inspired 'unique' taillights [whose overall shape is highly reminiscent of BMW], yet no one complains that car's too worldly or not American enough. Though I can see where some of the complaints are coming on this car, I also think it's a solid entry. In particular I think the front end is great. the sculpting is very good, character lines good, and overall expression great. I think the touches of other recent Chevy concepts, including that Colorado remake at SEMA, are fabulous [bulging hood]. I'm less excited about the side profile and rear view. These could have been more distinctive. surfacing from the silver car looks great, but it looks already dated on the red car, could be lighting and angle. the big question is how can GM continue to prioritize so poorly? The biggest car market, where the biggest weakness in small GM cars exist [now that Astra is old, slightly overpriced and outdated in the context of competition], and Korea is gonna get it almost 2 years before us?

I was watching some of it. not to toot my own horn, but it was interesting to see him [Lutz] use some of the arguments I've made here for why GM fails. in particular the phsycology the automobile takes over one person, and it becomes an extension of one's self, a tool for our expression. also, a two year old used car can fulfill the need quotient, and GM was only building things in cars people needed, basic needs, as opposed to what they wanted [since I started using that mantra years ago, it's gone on to become more widely used, again, not to toot my own horn :AH-HA_wink:

DI will help keep weight down [base V6 is lighter ~200 lbs over GT package], without question should improve gas mileage at least 1 mpg, and will help make the base G8 a barnburner. no reason why a turbo 4 cyl Ecotec package that weighs 200 lbs less and is offered with the couldn't go a step further and serve as another lower stepping stone for a Pontiac supreme luxury performance sedan. if these improvements are marketed, and the G8's exposure increases, there's no reason this won't help expand the appeal of the G8 line. so long as it's message remains as Pontiac's supreme sports sedan, now more conscientious then ever.

with design like this, who needs the G8 wagon. [well, I know there'd still be groups who would appreciate an affordable cleanly styled RWD wagon]. this just looks so fantastic. what a great looking car, it's a shame it will once again never arrive here in its original form, and even if it does eventually it will be too late.

what a hot ride. what's missing are a bigger engine lineup including smaller displacement V6, duo turbo V6, hybrid dual mode, diesel. this is Cadillac's 5-series, their mainstay. the coupe will complete an awesome lineup. update the rear on the sedan for something less retro, upgrade certain materials on the inside, and you have near perfect mainstream luxury line. Add a top end sedan/coupe, entry level sports sedan/coupe, and you'd have a great lineup. now what's left is to fix that damn SRX.

salesmen will always appreciate new product, and the market they're seeing for this has already been identified here, women, but this is not necessarily a direction Cadillac should so obviously go after, at least in terms of design, imo. SRX is a polarizing design and too obviously mimics a wagon shape which is not what most SUV buyers are after. However, a mre daring sportster SUV/hatch type setup like the T2X or FX45 would have been a clear winner in the price range this is going after. FWD or not, this design is terrible. As to the FWDvRWD issue, customers may not know SRX is RWD, but buyers of the outgoing SRX will most certainly miss the balance and sporting setup, unless this new platform has something unique to offer. this most closely seems to target RX, but the interior is already a letdown based on the Provoq, and it's just not appealingly styled. this will have to come in at a good price, however, because of that likely circumstance, and fuel prices, and women, this should see more success than outgoing pricier SRX.

a theta based small crossover like this with little breakthrough in style is going to sell for 30k and that's about it. this won't be able to compete with BMW on visual flair nor cachet, so even X3 will find more favor amongst the crowd this is going after. Families will find themselves left with just Escalade [too big, pricey]. so who will this draw in? if the youthful urbanites are more attracted to flash in the X3 [3.0I model is the one I'm referring to for all the naysayers about to jump in and say its unattractive] and the FX and EX...who will this very traditionally shaped, unimaginatively designed cute ute appeal to. that's my biggest problem, the design just isn't breaking any ground, and is very very feminine, which isn't really where the rest of this market is going, even the upcoming GLK has a more rakish masculine roofline than this flowing womanly thing.

at this point, money, for the domestic suitors. all the domestic companies have funding plans hinging on turnarounds based around 2010. doesn't count for other unforseen circumstances. give us a national gas shortage, for example, and GM is done.

relax. let the relability stats play out before you attack. the car will get 45 mpg, that's one huge and great accomplishment. let's hope it delivers on that claim [they're quoted 9 more than current cobalt, xfe gets 36], and gets here fast. this is better than current prius and civic hybrid if true [maybe not on paper, but in overall performance and design].

identifiable shape or not, people want a good looking car. efficiency or not, people want to be seen in a decent looking car. the proportions make it look tinny, not substantial or familial, like a prius. with no credence for luxury, i think this will fail to dissect the prius formula. but with over 60 mpg, and under $20k, this may just develop its own formula!

anytime a nurse is involved, i'm there! doesn't the rear overhang also make you want to barf? I'm seeing 3-series in the surfacing, check the doors and front fenders. i'm talking pre-Bangle BMW 3 and 5, so look at the last gen BMW surfacing, and you'll get a feel for what I'm saying.

what do dealer guys know? :AH-HA_wink: [not you, but your co-workers] haha, in all seriousness, my exact point is the conservative nature is going to have appeal to those outside of the luxury field, well the design-centric luxury area in which I am. this may have no problem selling to some families outside of the coasts, but those looking at the latest trends in design will see this as yesterday's news. the broader luxury category is ever more so daily looking for statements, and this makes none. it's safe, conservative, and will sell to some females and families, but it will not create a buzz on its design statement alone. [edit: after switching computer screens, I'm starting to like the surfacing elements more at the front end. more pictures in the end may make me lke it a bit more and think it's a big more unique, the bulk of my criticism now is being directed at the derivative profile and shape, as well as the marginally stale front end.] the saab is an innovator purely on its shape. but the wrap around windshield, the sculpted mirror, the hockey stick shape. all speak of luxury, all intimately Saab. very very handsome, very innovative. conservative, but in a Saab manner that is refined and exactly the kind of luxury design some people want. ZL-1: it's weird cause I'm not getting what you see. it looks perfectly fine to me. invicta, well we may be pre-judging a lot based on a shot from an awkward angle. that's all I'll say on that one. [generally i'm close to ready to drop the hammer as a few others here have already done on that one.]

I enjoyed the blockier appearance [rear end], more upright less plump surfacing, and overall diminished length of this look better. those details add up to a much sportier look, where Caddy should be. even if the surfacing is still very reminiscnet of a last gen BMW. EDIT: the more i look at that rear overhang in the real shot, the more i wanna barf, the more convinced I am it doens't have a shot in hell in Europe. CTS wagon EDIT: I screwed up with the illustraition, please go here and then scroll down to where it says April 11 Illustration

is this a good looking wagon? well, yeah, sorta. is it in keeping with what Cadillac's theme should be. NO! the surfacing is last gen BMW, look at the doors closely and around the wheelwells and ask yourself what that reminds you of....BMW 3-series, last gen. the bubbled rear hatch is kind of edgy and risky.....but all of the parts don't tie in together. this could have been much more dramatic, edgier, more current. less fatty big daddy Caddy

honestly, all of BMW's designs are aging incredibly well and looking like the most forward-thinking, progressive designs of this era. the surfacing is inspiring automakers everywhere to do unique things there.

damn, i keep trying to write up some design commentary and deleting it. well, here goes again, this will be shorter than all I wanted to say. cruze is a star, and the star of these. increasingly this segment and car is becoming vital to everyone's survival. both interior and the production shots we're looking at suggest GM is gunning for a more upscale segment. the interior in preproduction guise is already more beautiful than anything in the intermediate compact and midsize segment [not better than Passat and I can't remember Mazda6 right now]. the exterior is sophisticated and strong. me likes. equinox, another winner. clearly moving into the family category to supplant Trailblazer. I like the concept, moving more conservative and yet strong bold front end. a perfect family vehicle for Chevy, and no wonder they didn't follow our advice and make Lambda a TB replacement. the 2.3 turbo should be able to go above 30 mpg, we may be looking at one of the few seriously relevant crossovers going down the line, unless gas prices stabilize at $4 going into the future [because of a move to alternative fuels?]. saab is my next favorite. what a looker! potentially, already the best looking in its class. because it's a saab, and I expect the same from Cadillac, there are very high expectations for road handling and drive feel. this better deliver, no questions asked. this is yet again one of those make or break situations I'm going to be looking at for GM, and if I was a paid analyst at a Merill Lynch type investment bank, these are the indications of whether GM can manage multiple brands or not. get your act together, you lazy people. get to work and engineer the crap out of the suspensions, it's what we're expecting, and consumers are more prepared, more informed than ever. build buzz through the genuine execution of these models. on the cadillac's design, what a yawn-fest, and honestly barf-inducing as a Cadillac. no other words to say, the surfacing, profile, even traditionally strong Cadillac graphics are all lame and just wrong, considering what sexy work like the Tiguan, FX and EX, and even 9-4x is coming out in this category. this is not to say this won't appeal to some, but it's not the vehicle GM needs in this segment, yet again. they need to go back to a multi-pronged strategy with the SUV category, if market conditions allow. but if we were back a year ago, and I knew then what I know now about the designs out now, I would say this a weak entry. because we are in a different time, I will say I can't yet judge the concept, the conservative upright SUV thing mixed with Cadillac DNA, because of the times we're in. because of economic situation, this may be the upper limit for SUVs, going down the line, so this may end up just being good timing, having the unviersal, more family-oriented shape around. but as it is, this is nothign but weak weak weak and a big disappointment. with the invicta, i felt one of its strongest features was the surfacing, which was very Lexus-like, but more advanced yet. it's hard to judge that here. i'm concerned with the derivative nature of some of its design. if there's nothing new here, it may be a waste of an excercise, but i believe we may end up with something fresh when all is said and done.

well, i wouldn't read too far in the direction you may be heading. i think it was intentional in that GM wanted to have two high profile and attractive product right behind him. i think it was also an intentional wink and nod at enthusiasts who would pick up on the cruze early unveling as well, a show of understanding they hear us when we say they need to hurry up with the good, fresh product. the Cadillac looked more inflated than the current CTS, the surfacing seemed pumped up, i wonder if that's what the coupe will be...

it wouldn't be so bad to see cobalt fill in the fleet sales role as well as maybe hold the line on the truly affordable compact [13k-16k market], while Cruze starts in a little above it. of course, it would be pathetic to see cobalt continue with no design changes for another 4 years. eventually cobalt would need to be phased out, used stricly for fleets, or redesigned.

proof they're listening.......to me bwah hah hah jk yes, the saturn product stall seems to indicate the heavy product infusion is under review. aura and vue have received the biggest product push, and of course outlook entered into a burgeoning hot market that is supposed to see automatic volume. so i would suspect the sales performance of these three especially will be under heavy scrutiny. my rational question about that judgement call would be what perceived special feature does aura offer over any other car in its class? style? malibu offers that and more.... but I am in favor of reviewing Saturn's position and eventually jettison the expansion. i don't see them building a brand there, money better spent reviving other 'damaged' brands. I echo all the other sentiments here. Beat is not really that big a deal, though the market is coming on, it's not as urgent as say a Corsa intro here, and it's still primarily going to be a city car, which isn't a bad reason to hurry up. but the whole transformers thing is stupid planning yet again. get exposure for a car not even produced here. cruze is coming soon, we already have thegriffon and toyotavs.gm confirming production in Mexico for late next year for distribution here. so cobalt will probably continue to be cobalt. that's not such a bad thing. actually it wouldn't be a terrible thing to have the three compacts remain for some time. Pontiac being nourished with product...hmmmmpphh.....about time is all i can say. they need to seriously hurry up and remake a brand that could serve a vital line down the road.

Cruze looks good. now they need to figure out how to bring the car to market six months early and get it here early '09 rather than fall season. this is the kind of product GM has to focus on, with real results, real affordability, and massive appeal, this is the car that should get the big early unveil, surprise early production announcement, and marketing push.....not volt which will sell for a lot and not a lot of volume. wagoner's composure and quick answers were steady and strong. though i didn't check for substance, he is confident and reassuring.

invicta face is instantly more attractive and bold. both feature surfacing that is upscale, but both side profiles don't break any ground. lose the wheels of the invicta and its appearance weakens. lose any of the detail in the headlamps of invicta and its upscale appearance is diminished, same goes for the grille material. there are still plenty of things GM can do to ruin the production translation of this car, and GM is notorious for it. not spending the dough where it counts, on what people see with their eyes every day, and what grants them the most important perception of the car. EDIT: to the post above: Acuras don't compete with tier 1 BMW and MB effectively, but they serve a stepping stone to those, and are a nice tier 2 product. this is the market saab should be going after and could effectively compete in.

ironically enough, the G8 does follow a similar aesthetic of the outgoing Acuras, with refined surfacing with an emphasis on a lean look, strong creases again emphasizing athleticism and drama, sports sedan character lines, very very restrained features, only slightly more aggressive graphics/grille treatment/headlamps/taillamps.

I agree. Saturn's great success has been with small cars and SUVs. I don't think there's room in the marketplace for them, or that GM has enough resources to pull this off for them. They are going to keep going at it with the plan in place, which investment-wise and planning-wise might be the wiser choice to make, but I don't see them gaining traction. Saturn definitely needs someone to team up with to gain exposure, but who's going to lose out in that place. Maybe they should also be sold through some Cadillac/Saab dealers. premium experience augmented by Saturn's great customer service skills. the no dicker sticker should be left at Saturn, and potentially killed altogether. I don't know, I just don't think Saturn has much potential or room for growth. there's too much of nothing there. and the ion and its vestiges really hurt.

it's fine but too common. there's nothing remotely about it to stand apart from the rest of the crowd. the restraint in prior generations of TL and TSX mixed along with very handsome features and surfacing was enough to set them apart as new beacons for endurance, consistency, sophistication. these new TL and TSXs over time, what are they going to say? the grille is trying to hard, the wheel flares are like everywhere else, the rears retain the old car's feel, but mixed in with the extravagant front end you can no longer say these are strongly taut and refined in a very conservative manner. the last tl and tsx were like finely pressed armani suits, if armanis are the traditional designs....these are trying way too hard to fit in and be ostentaious.

will it be an actual different car, like say a performance hatch with a base and uplevel model, or maybe a sports coupe a la Civic to RSX? Or will it be the same exact car with maybe a different, 'Pontiac' face, and red interior lighting.