turbo200

first i have to say with enthusiasm i totally believe in this form of marketing, and this could really be some of the most emotive, fun video of a Caddy I've ever seen recorded [never seen CTSV video yet]. this footage needs to be used in a commercial. next i have to say i find it very intriguing the photographers chose not to give us a clear head on view of the car [without effects/tricks] or direct view of the rear. i think the profile and rake look good in motion, the greenhouse shape looks better. what i can see of the front view in unaltered footage looks weak, but the lighting checked video of the front looks pretty cool, again that's what we can expect to see of this car at night, but the point of getting a car that looks good is showing it off, not hiding at night.

i'm surprised at the reaction to this car. it's classical, elegant, and uninterrupted in form. Gran Turismo is awesome, Maserati is awesome.

most importantly is having people within the company halls that get it. they need to know the consumer and what we expect from this kind of car. not having a family yet, not planning on one in the intermediate future, absolutely wanting to signal a premium sensibility, looking for design that is extremely appealing and sets itself apart because the competition is all very attractive, quality becomes an absolute, and performance, a fun car that reminds me of good times, of the fact that i am young, that allows me to move my way around easily and capably. the mindset of the consumer is the first place to begin when producing these cars. i am a little troubled by the way PCS described the roles these cars need to take. they should all have a very dialed in suspension feel and precise steering, a handling benchmark needs to be BMW, with GM's own take on suspension and driving refinement. why do cars like the A4, 3 series, IS and C-class and other premium compacts succeed. they are upscale and fashionable, upper crust in every respect, first and foremost. they're inherently desirable and worth the cost of entry. this is furthered by really attractive design, this is the first element to success. i can't overstate how singularly important it's gonna be to get every design detail right, for each individual model if Caddy is gonna go the vert, coupe, sedan route. look to the picture below, there's not one line, on panel, or one point about the stance, profile, angles, and even facial features that does not look right. everything looks just about perfect. to varying degrees, I feel this way about all the 4 cars above. some of the spy shots for the CTS coupe have me thinking the final product might be less than perfectly attractive, GM needs to follow this line of thinking with every model in development, but especially one from Cadillac if it's ever to become truly desirable at making luxury cars, is that every car needs to be inherently attractive. if this is not true, don't make it at all!!

dual cowl works really well. but i'm talking components more than anything. the HVAC and radio design, and the center stack layout cribbed from every new GM vehicle. the brushed alluminum meets two tone, which is totally fashionable and ideal, but getting less and less unique. it's not that that's a bad thing necessarily, but were I the one running the show, I would put emphasis on creating a world when you're in the car that is a unique and seperate experience. I would go the extra $600 and keep buyers coming back to me because they can't get the feeling I create anywhere else. despite major reliability setbacks poor perceptions and low resale, audi keeps surviving in the US.......

you must've missed the first part of your post. on your second note, i mean it's not like I don't read about cars or just ignored the ZR1. it's just the message the standard chevy sends out, aside from the macho camaro, is one of everyday casual transport. sportiness notwithstanding, we're talking about design interpretation, not go fast engines or special models. the concept designers work years on to understand, and then perfect in thier design language that is produced.

i don't think anyone here is too confused or off the mark about where Pontiac stands in today's marketplace or how it's perceived. it is junk and garbage. plasticy and overwrought. rubbish and tacky. relegated to rental stands. relic from the past, literally. just downright substandard. that doesn't mean that what Pontiac is supposed to be isn't something that is immensely marketable. it is youthful, fun, attractive, and a party. buick is boring and stately, too sober [even in its idealized 'premium' sense, which it ain't yet occupying baby]. chevrolet is everyman and quaint, nothing to see here. cadillac is not the wild child, more the out of reach anti-social. pontiac's message of what it's supposed to be is in, and always will be. the product just isn't there yet. think firebird 1969 and the message of what pontiac is, is resounding.

in looking to the future, GM has to unify in thier definition and plans for vehicles and brands. everyday there is evidence they are moving ahead in great paces. the new equinox shows more than ever they get how to appropriately pitch vehicles at the right market and identify market segments, actual buyers, and what they're lookin for when they wanna buy their car. if they start to execute at that level consistently, then they will succeed and will have enough resources to give Pontiac, also, its appropriate reborn place in the market. it is upscale and deviant. it is different and cool. it is attractive and oft-kilter, it is slightly mean-spirited, in a get out my way sort of fashion. but it hasn't been all of this in a long time. to the money questions being asked here. I'm talking about cars that are readily available on other platforms. the only significant investments I'm taking about include distinct sheetmetal and interior re-designs. audi and VW do it with much less volume, throughout the world, across as many brands as GM has, and with much more success and alacrity. the GTI competitor can come off Gamma, base it off the new Corsa, make sure the standard suspension for Pontiac is rough and tumble, stiff suspension, sporty direct steering, great performing powertrains, high standard level of quality, features don't necessarily need apply. yes, a Pontiac should have the option of some luxury goodies, but this is no Caddy. The alpha sedan already has a clear path for Cadillac. the new Camaro will show there is life left in high volume high feature level content highly attractive coupes at GM. the business case is there for Alpha, and gas prices have sort of reminded us we are at the mercy of OPEC [in that respect we can only do what's best for us, continue to develop alternative tech to show them we mean business, offer it in high volume solutions, incentivize it to encourage and spread the green message, whilst internal combustion engines could live on because of high viability]. alpha sedan for Pontiac is as simple as complete reskin and unique interior design, no more than $300 mil tops with a huge budget to spend their money wisely, get Holden or Saab on it, they both seem to make small miracles happen with light budgets. Finally, the G8, repeat steps 1 and 2 already outlined, spread across nice large sedan and gentleman's GT. I don't expect or think this should happen in the next two years. but when GM gets on track to profitability, after they've worked out their debt and whatever other requirements our government has laid out for them, they should make a move towards using all resources wisely, and this would be one of them.

the name issue was a big mistake. call it ridding yourself of past baggage if you choose...but the selection of the new names was the most pathetic attempt at coolness, most lackadaisical and insubstantial and uncreative move ever in the history of naming vehicles. i mean what does 'G' stand for. gran prix and grand am were not just recognizable and associable with less than stellar product, but they are also just fundamentally attractive names. as is firebird. let's break it down to simple marketing. these names sell on their own cause they sound cool and evocative. it doesn't matter about association, for that can change like infiniti can change to mean something good instead of something relegated to the compost heap after years of failure and doldrums.

by the way, fast analysis of the swoopy Epsilons that were coming to Pontiac. Pontiac, not Lutz, greatly missed the mark on the design. I'm guessing it must have been the design hard points being locked in or GM's insistence not to spend much on differentiation, because last gen Malibu DNA is all over the G6, but they greatly missed the mark. The production model traded all of the concept's four door coupe glory, sleek elegant profile, fast in motion stance, and progressive high quality interior for a drab interior concept cribbed from the last gen Altima and an overall exterior completely reminiscent of that same car. I mean to think you could base a car off a last gen Japanese model that raised to cult popularity and call it an American model with less quality and less performance, and you're good to go, is pure insanity. whoever approved G6 as it is, must be fired. What a waste of an opportunity.

I too agree the GTO was rushed to the market. in essence, i agree with most of what PCS said, all of it, but let me give my reason for why I think this is a really valid point. The GTO in its fundamentals did raise the bar for Pontiac and GM as a whole. back when it was released it was being compared somewhat favorably at least to cars like the M3 and beating competitors like the G35 and Mustang in performance tests. On quality, it had one of the best designed interiors and the best interior materials for any GM vehicle of its time. but the GTO didn't scream a solid message. we all know now design instructs to us a message, mustang screams at you, G37 is loud and beautiful, camaro is cool. GTO not only did nothing to further pontiac's design message, but it also did nothing to further design since it looked dated the moment it was released. it looked anonymous, like nothing new. so in that respect at least, I don't think it raised the bar at all. coupes in this time have been show to be vanguard messages that must be 'lights on' attraction at all times, and the GTO didn't do anything special outside of looking quietly handsome. imagine had the GTO been allowed a proper development cycle, to come here with a distinct product message to turn Pontiac around. I don't know if what PCS is saying about Lutz's relationship to Pontiac is true, but if so, he may have done a tremendous disservice by rushing the car instead of perfecting a message for Pontiac through that car.

the current equinox represents one of the bigger missed attempts at making an upscale family car everyone agrees is good; this is the complete reversal of that. i love the new upscale family pitch; I think it can command a higher price now so long as the refinement in the drive is also much improved and the quality of the interior lives up to these photos. I like the tie-ins to the Trailblazer, which is still really good looking despite dated surface elements, in the profile and D-pillar and the front. my major complaint would be a rear that appears gross in comparison to the rest, minivan-ish and distinctly indistinct and Korean. hold outlook, you stole my headlights...they look way cool here too. i kinda think they didn't go far enough in making it less conservative. I've never been a fan of GM not having brand-specific design language for the interiors, and the trend continues to dominate here, but it's a good looking design and works here.

Pontiac is an easy remake. an affordable sports hatch that is FWD to cover the more snowy climes would be my base entry, something along the lines of the GTI is perfect, with that level of consistent build and materials quality to reinforce the quality and exclusive image that has eluded Pontiac for so long. My mainstream entry would be a slightly smaller overall length than Malibu Alpha mid line of coupe, sedan, and maybe wagon. this would be the renegade option to the more traditional Malibu upscale family sedan. On the upper end, as long as Holden is producing a RWD sedan as thier halo, Pontiac can also have one; the next one should follow a Pontiac theme, clean fluid surfacing like the solstice with real presence in the front end and rear end design. interiors should be sport two tones with dramatic elements and much more high quality to justify current pricing scheme of where the G8 sits. G8 should shrink a little in size and at least 200lbs in mass. this line would much closer reflect the successful midsize Gran Prix and compact Grand Am of 2000.

i'm gonna guess it's that they will assume responsibility of examining financials going forward...since technically we have a stake in them now. i've been reading plenty of articles about how the administration was going over the 'books', financials, all over the past two weeks. you're right, those are great stipulations.

it's important to look at this from a market viability perspective. buick and pontiac need rebuilding, that is clear. in this economic time of turmoil, people choose judiciously where there money goes. it's not necessarily the ideal environment for imagination and inspiration it would take for either of these brands to be turned around, though i do believe great product that gets to the core values of these brands would turn both around. but back on the idea that this time is hard to recreate a brand. which is gonna be easier to sell, the affordable youth mainstream brand or the barely premium with a premium price brand. buick has to be rebuilt on the backing of very premium, stylish and comfortable product; but the premium perception is one that comes after the lineup is consistent and experience and idea is built in. all i know is the longer we have the current lacrosse the more damage occurs. we need the new lineups for both these brands already.

this is amazing! read this yesterday, yet again feeds an unnatural desire to get the cobalt ss, which will be getting an upgrade soon [it's unnatural cause it's a cobalt, but what a car]. they should include this as part of a special racing package available through dealers.

it'll be interesting to see how the requirements work out for the loans. i believe they have to get their balance sheet to the positive, which means clearing over $70billion of debt, by March 31st, or the loans will be canceled. obviously, I am happy to see GM live to survive another day. the purpose of the loans within GM appears to be to keep the lights on and weather this tough economic time for the auto business. somehow, I believe this will not be enough. watching the press conference I get the feeling that the national press corps, and the casual observer of the public at large is going to get the same laissez faire feeling from the leaders at GM that has seemed consistent over the years. though I want to beleive in them and I do see there is a lot of good work going on, I wish they could give more concrete answers or at least appear a lot more serious on the issues that we see as the fundamental problem. on the UAW/wage competitve question it was a wait and see answer. on the sale and redefinition of the brands it was a wait and see approach. i have a lot of faith in this company, I hope they work it out is all I can say. from their own presentations though, it's easy to see why the national media slams them in my book. they in no way compare to the leaders from JP Morgan for example.......on too many fronts they seem inadequately prepared or comprehensive.....but that's okay, we will wait and see....yet again

the government now owns preferred stock in most of those banks that have taken money from the Tarp. it is 700 billion which was allocated to them, and the government was able to take stakes in those companies. when the stock rebounds, the government will actually make a profit on the investment.

generic. slight organic look which is the most attractive element to the design. quality appeal is diminished because some finishes don't look very attractive, like the wood for example. this would make a great saturn, chevy, or pontiac interior. as the premium motorcar company, buick needs to redefine itself above this. this is a $24,000 interior to me. buick should have an interior that looks to start at the mid20's and go up from there, like the advanced Acura above or the great sheen from the volvo imparts. at least the doors look great. already two years old and certainly at the head of its class, nissan finds itself in a quality and design parity with opel's newest offering. they're both equally interesting to look at. notice how nissan avoids garish cutlines and building from too many pieces, all the dash seems to come from one piece instead of all the different pieces. nissan's is not very organic design though. simply beautiful and cutting edge. exactly what buick, opel should aspire for. this is unique which is the first great part about it. the colors, shapes, and controls are all different, special. this looks like it reaches into the $30k class, but bottoms out not far above there. supremely organic, made from one piece, it all juts out from one piece. very high quality look. a new class standard, and exactly where buick should be headed for in terms of image. this imparts a luxury sport feel. quality is supreme, colors are extraordinarily good. controls and button design is unique and interesting. design is subdued, that may be a negative in this group, but perhaps that's the way a buick should be. tactical evasion of cutlines and gaps. the regal looks like it seeks to be everything the current jetta is. generic and uncliched, non garish. but the jetta in america competes with lesser cars than the regal should go up against at a premium brand. and then there's the issue that the jetta is current and the regal won't be here for another three years, about the time when the current one gets redesigned. mazda6 seems like a tailor-made competitor to the regal....now. therein lies the problem, and of course there is the idea that here in america mazda is seen more as a generic brand, even if it has a sporty bent, it's not meant to compete with more premium brands like volvo or even vw, but instead the likes of toyota and honda. i thought that was the job for chevy. and here we go back to the original dilemma which is GM's constant work at pitting itself against itself instead of managing the brands in such a way so that there is actual gradual grades and structures to each one.

this comparo is not at all recent. your midleading assertions are troubling...

i agree with smk's logical assumptions on the upcoming SRX....it's not going to be the same as the current car, likely a disappointment since it won't be based on Sigma, a critically acclaimed platform....and it's going to theta, which is, um, not critically acclaimed....in addition, he's right about the interior, the shots northie posted show it could be of poor quality, look at those radio/hvac controls and typical shiny GM chrome along with the bland and cheap/hollow looking door panels, and even less creative and attractive. it's a shame how much sportier and more atttactive the current X5 looks in the shots northie posted. even the platform maate saab has a more focused and attractive design theme. however, this new RX really does make the SRX look attractive, which is sad. this being cadillac though, it's not enough that they be more attractive than lexus. they have to be the most attractive, or one of the most, as shown with 2nd and 3rd gen escalade. what's with the artsy for artsy sake center stack. gotta see it in person, but they forgot about elegance and taste, imo....they went overboard for the sake of looking special, but it didn't work.

that's ironic....i was going to tell you to be quiet because this is actually a quite reasonable pitch and with good potential for success,,,but yeah it;d be shady down and dirty. the fact is this is capatilism....i wish there were one dissenting voice on the buy american cars subject, but apparently this industry matters little to the overall health of the country.

we're all forgetting this bridge loan would have just tided GM over until March, when another request for $20 billion would come through. if they're gonna get all that money, then there has to be guarantees there business model will change and restructuring will happen quicker. congress should not have a say in the business model, they should only dictate that it must improve so that GM can be profitable in the next couple of years. i'm beginning to think the best way out is through bankruptcy reorganization. bush will likely use money from tarp. by the way, the market showed us how little this had an effect on thier outlook. early morning trading, before treasury/bush talked about using tarp funds, the drop was only 100 points on news of the failure. the asian stocks seemed to have a more dire and instantaneous reaction. 100 points dwon on the Dow not so special anymore.

design wise the TSX strikes me as fashionable, technical, if not totally fluid. it looks like in person it will have a premium appearance. the regal/insignia isn't a revolution or innovation, something buick desperately needs to be relevant. we're all looking at this through hopeful eyes, but the reality of how a majority of the public looks at buick is more in line with lacrosse and smk's views than enclave and many of the other opposing views here. the other thing the regal/insignia lacks is a real premium feel. it looks to me like it gives a better impression of quality in photo than it will in person. the tsx looks more expensive and flashy, even as the overall effect can be disorienting. anyone who looks at the S40 and doesn't see that simple elegance and a premium look seperate it from its lesser brethren is blind. the main thing setting it at a low price point is the lack of sheer size and features.

well...ifor acuracy's sake, the volume side of the luxury equation belongs to RWD makes and models. FWD acuras and the ES300 are successful, but outside of that, FWD mainstream premium isn't all that big on volume. but i'm sure that's not where you were headed with your post.

i thought my reply had come in earlier but i guess my faulty internet connection is to blame. my primary question to you was have you compared the cars I talked about, C-class and CTS. the C, along with S, GL, CL and GLK are the newest gen MBs....new design theme in and out. these have a classical arrangement, and the button design is cleaned up less cluttered less complex. they are beautiful interiors. i prefer elegant solutions like those to GM's one-way-works-for-all ergonomics that are simple, but so simple they are basic. i know most people here trumpet GM's controls and layouts, but i find them generally tacky and unappealing. i find them to be so simplistic as if lacking any flavor at all. i consider that we're in the age of the Iphone, and yet GM has not progressed from the traditional HVAC, radio, etc layout. they need to make the designs more interesting, and at least in the high end models, give their consumers more credit and make the layouts more elegant, and yes complex.