turbo200

I remember ah-ha once mentioning a Chevy version coming on Lambda, this wasn't too long ago.

From the grainy pictures that revealed the whole look of this car, I thought Toyota might have made a breakthrough in thier design. Now, after seeing it in clearer pictures, I recognize this is still yet again the most boring sedan on the road. Congratulations Toyota, you have nothing on the 2008 Malibu's design.

hmmm... a TB, with the TB name and TB styling but as a Lambda?

if you ask my humble opinion that's a ridiculous question. Yes, logically GM will have lots more to offer in that market segment with the Thetas and Lambdas, so I could see where they could start to remove the 360s. But, Trailblazer is a historically great-selling product, and I don't think it's a smart idea to call it a loser NOW when the car is still selling like 300k units.

I should have emphasized your arguments on price. Why would GM create another GTO? That's basically what you're saying they would do if you expect them to price the car around 30k base. Why would they do such a stupid thing again. The GTO is purposely limited at that price because that's all GM wants to sell. Camaro would have to sell more in order to even get created. And yet you argue, adamantly, that price will start around 30k? My problem really is that you are not willing to look at this from different perspectives. There is just no reason for GM not to start the Camaro under 25k. IF they didn't they would be siginificantly undercutting its potential against the Mustang. I see a Camaro starting around 22-23k, in an ideal world 20k base just like the Mustang. I agree with what ah-ha has siad about potential sales figures.

Croc: When was i attacking you? I was merely confronting you about a certain manner in which you come across in your posts. I didn't call you any name; I am just trying to get you to retract from your position of being the authority on EVERYTHING. Be willing to listen to others and you can learn a lot more than fighting every good word that comes your way.

I saw that picture of the LS on autoweek, and I still don't think it is distinctive enough, and it's a rip-off of a lot of BMW cues. Check out that profile, it's all 5-series, and in the rear especially it looks like the 5. For a Lexus, it's nice enough I guess. But the design does nothing to motivate me to purchase it, and especially at the price this car will be going for I'd choose an A8 or 7-series over it. I think even the new DTS is more stately looking than this warmed over IS.

why :( :P the corolla is a very large car for being a compact. that was all my point was. and i'm 5'11 thank you very much

It's so illogical to argue first that RWD is too far away and then to speculate about base content, and say, with a definitive tone, as if your opinion is the only one that counts here, that there is no way this car will come in at 20k. That's why some of your posts get old Croc, because you pretend, often, as if your opinion is the end all be all and you're opinion is the only one that counts. Ah-ha is a great source, and I respect him tremendously, and I always thoroughly read and listen to what he says, but in this case I don't have to take his word as the gospel. I choose not to, based on what others have said. Do I think GM will chase profit? Well, it would be stupid for them not to. But they would be even 10 times stupider to ignore tuners looking for an inexpensive Camaro, with a nice wheel and tire package, for around 24k, where they could easily slap a turbo [possibly from GM parts catalog] for around 1k. Is that not logical? Am I crazy? That's where the volume would be. That's what would be necessary to sustain a car line, imo, volume. Ah-ha doesn't have to agree with this, but then nobody does, this is all conjecture, ultimately I am just trying to make the most educated guess. I don't pretend the Camaro will base at 20k, but even around 22k, that would be a great deal. Any higher than 25k and I think they are sacrificing many Mustang customers. Do I think it's realistic the Camaro will get 200k sales? No way, but anything can happen. And anything includes 200k sales when a car like the one GM is describing they can build is a real thing. Imagine, a Mustang, sold under GM, with even better engines, styling that was exciting and put the Mustang to shame, an incredible interior unlike what we've seen from GM [what is coming out from GM is unlike what we've seen before from them- per ah-ha], and handling to rival and beat the Mustang. Let's see who's right. At this point, this is nothing but conjecture from most of us, and those in the know can't say, and the one most involved with Chevy, well most of all of you choose to ignore what he has to say. Go and actually read what he has to say and then try to ignore it.

hmmm, very good pricing imo....

I don't know that he meant the Corolla will actually increase in size, but if that's what h meant, then you are right that is crazy. The Corolla, to me, is already almost like a midsize car, I mean I think it has just as much interior space as an old Malibu. It's freakin huge inside, and a wonderful deal just because of that, imo, though I'm not certain how it compares, I know the Cobalt isn't nearly as big as it is, on the inside.

When I look at it, sure the shape is foreign, but the Pontiac cues are there. The rear screams Pontiac to me, I don't know, it's the placement and shape of the taillamps that make it look like the current Grand Prix, it's the lines on the bumper sill and around the lisence plate. Better 2 tone combinations like those on the GTO would do wonders. I think people need to remember this is one of the last of the pre-Lutz cars, ya Lutz was able to make some changes, but things are only going to get more dramatic from here and we will see it in the Lambdas, even moreso than we've already seen it in cars like the Solstice, Impala, Tahoe, HHR, etc. It's all about gradual improvements, and gradually Lutz getting more control over everything. You will see his cars start to get better and better and understand why all the changing in positioning has been happenning.

griffon, do you think that is possible for the Ion to be on the new Vectra's platform, SWB Epsilon?

The sale is not that drastic, here are its major points: Under the new program, customers: •Who already lease a GM product will be able to get out of their contracts, expiring between Nov. 1 and April 30, as much as six months early this month. •Will be offered a $500 gas card with the purchase of a 2006 mid- or full-sized SUV. •Will get another $500 in rebates for 2006 full-sized pickups such as the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra. That brings the total to about $3,000 for some versions of the pickups. What's more, interest rates have been dropped to 1.9% up to 36 months, 2.9% for 48 months, 3.9% for 60 months and 4.9% for 72 months. Unlike in the past, consumers will be able to choose one or the other -- a cash rebate or a low-interest rate -- but not both. •Zero-percent financing, according to the company's Web site, also remains available on a wide variety of outgoing 2005 vehicles. And rebates up to $6,000 are available on vehicles such as the Chevrolet Suburban. Nothing new, and notice you can't combine interest offers with cash back offers, that's something that's been done in more desperate times. It seems like incentives for bigger trucks and the last of the '05's, which there are probably 10 floating around there.

holy crap that's 180k units/year, wayyyyy too many. I'm sure they're very hot still, but that's overdoing it just a bit. I just drove by the Chevy dealer and saw like ten or fifteen in a line, not many, but still, I'd like this to be the GM that stays in demand.

:lol: :D NOS

please post pictures please post pictures please post pictures please post pictures please post pictures please post pictures please post pictures please post pictures of your face :) everybody else here says so much of it, I just wanna see it now.....

I've loved reading what everybody has had to say so far.... My observations are not all that great since I had very limited experience with the different states I've been to, I've really only spent a good amount of time in Cal, Indiana, Illinois, and Las Vegas...anyway I live on one of the roads Moltar mentioned!, Coldwater Canyon, and it is very fun, especially in fun to drive cars.... I agree with Moltar's assessment about LA, and sixty's statement that it can't possibly live up to the hype is right on! I had very vague thoughts about LA before getting here, but I thought it was a lot more city, a lot less sprawling, a lot more beautiful, and Hollywood a lot more magnificent, than it really is, it's really pretty rundown. Having lived in Chicago, I would say the grandeur their is a lot more magnifincent and awe-inspiring and upscale than LA, NY is I'm sure even more than that. The cool thing about LA is the different communities everywhere, and all the beach towns. They all have different feels. CA is also so full of places to venture to, San Diego is a great ciy as is Santa Barbra, both beautiful, and I've yet to discover the North, or Lake Tahoe, would love to go there. Anyways....my crass and unexperienced observations... CO is beautiful, and incredible to drive through. But what's really there??...... Nevada is just desert, it starts off nice enough at the North end, but then gets extrutiatingly hot [in September] and unpleasing. Las Vegas....again what is really there???? IDK.... Utah has gorgeous scenery, very unexpected, and very Old West. Incredibly picturesque and full of stories.... They don't call 'em the fly-over states for nothing ;).....My opinion was a lot more [please forgive me] hillbillies than I had ever seen in those states. It was like the undiscovered region......[I'm sorry] Why would anybody live in those states :lol: http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif [I apologize] Mississippi River has a lot history, but is very underwhelming crossing over it. The bridge I crossed over lent nothing of the history of this great river.... CA is crazy..... People in CA are on drugs......;) there's too much corruption of the mind here,...too many people who don't beleive in good and a simple lifestyle,.....too many people grappling with inner- demons, trying to fight for more money, more glamour, more attention.....it clearly is all fake and superficial.... Lots of people in CA are wonderful and easy to get along with, but the wackos are everywhere..... For someone from the midwest with a pretty innocent upbringing, CA will never stop surprising you until you learn to expect the worst from people.........I hate having to say that.....

Huge. Whopping valley of a difference. RWD may still be too far away, but us talking about it doesn't really affect that. The Solstice with its beautiful styling and fun-to-drive quotient will always have an audience, and with continuous improvements like the introduction of a turbocharged engine, GM will dominate that segment and won't lose sales to any Camaro or Camaro competitor. As 91z4me said, Camaros are bought mostly by performance freaks who prefer V8s, the problem is there's not enough who don't care about performance and just want a stylish coupe that makes them look good regardless of power. The 4th gen Camaro had it when it first came out. So many guys are girls thought the design was cool and liked it enough to sell in excess of 150k units [??possibly just under that figure]. Many like to argue the coupe market is cyclical. The coupe market sells based on style and coolness factor, less on everything else. There is obviously a much smaller market for coupes than there is for sedans, but make a cool looking coupe and you will still see sales, in and some cases records. Witness all the new recent introductions, 6-series, 350z, RX-8, G35. All of these weren't here when the Camaro got phased out, but now they are and have been clipping along at decent numbers, sustainable to keep them in production. And it seems with every new one that gets put out styling gets wilder and more intriguing. Just imagine the kind of repsonse the GTO would have gotten [which currently sells at around 12-16k units/year rate] if they had started out with 1st gen Firebird or GTO styling, something wild and aggressive yet still modern, artful, as opposed to just "nice". It all comes down to the coupe market being all about good design, hot design. The last Mustang started to fade away in '99, '00, but then in '01 it got the new design and in '02 it was back to terrific numbers. The Camaro could get there, it just needs to be a great design and be a very liveable package, unlike it had been.

The vents on the Escalade are going to be recantular shaped like on the Sixteen (I'm 99% sure ah-ha said the vents are shaped like the Sixteen concept). For reference visit here: http://www.autodeadline.com/detail?source=...366295&mime=JPG I hope this calms everybody's fears. I don't think they will leave Buicks free of portholes, ever again.

wow, i agree, great post. I would have definitely said the same. In my opinion, no one is to blame more for the mismanagement of these brands than GM execs themselves. Even after the switchover to FWD unibody, they had plenty of time to reverse things in the '90's, instead things just declined. There are plenty of good reasons posted above to choose Buick and Pontiac. I chose Saturn simply because they have the most product coming and therefore have the most potential and are the "strongest". Of course, Buick and Pontiac both have great product coming (i.e. Solstice and Centieme/Rendevous), but they'll need more in order to survive and become stronger. About the Cadillac portholes, they're not actually shaped like portholes, as on Buick!!!! Look at the Sixteen, they are shaped like that, and thus this is really making a mountain of a mole, imo. Buick will have circular portholes, Cadillac will have quadrangle vents, easy enough!

Croc, you said this rumor comes around every year around this season. You are WRONG. Perhaps in circles of uninformed internet buzzers you've heard that rumor "every year", but not from the people you are hearing it from today [in the past year]. And not with the level of confirmation we have seen this year. I am almost certain it will be there. If it doesn't, it's a damn shame, but I won't worry, it'll be disappointing though. It's just more lost business opportunity for GM for not getting a highly anticipated, exciting car to the market. The argument of whether coupes are still viable or not is arbitrary. You'd have to be a psycho to abandon a market worth 192k units, and that's just one car. You'd also have to be pretty childish not to understand the kind of marketing halo a nice, cool coupe has on the rest of your lineup. The people who are saying it now have a great deal of credibility and have relayed other information that has come to pass or has proven accurate. Ah-ha and evok are incredible sources, whose credibility has been proven time and time again. they are not the only ones, though, and if you don't want to believe it fine. We get your point, you don't, you can stop posting it over and over.

sounds pretty good.....I await the interior pictures with bated breath.....features sound like they are worthy of a luxury vehicle, which it is, so good.

crazy. I love that it gives in detail the family line, and then "alas....." BOMB....

I really have a preference for certain genres, but I can listen and enjoy mostly anything... I really really love music from DMB Jason Mraz coldplay guster dispatch jack johnson ben folds postal service any kind of acoustic based or focused music [that song from the honda civic commercial with the cute girl talking with the guy would describe a song I really am fond of] and tupac...crazy huh