turbo200

Thanks for the respectable way in which you dealt with the moore issue, at least you didn't just say he's fat and stupid, which makes people seem ignorant. I won't get into this debate any further, because you touched on an issue that goes much deeper. I think there's too much talk about what's hurting America already. The bottom line about GM's problems: I know they have a significant cost disadvantage. There is a blame to place there: what about the last concessions we made to the UAW? Gm should have stood up more. But hindsight is 20/20, so I cant' say anything there. Overhauling GM is like overhauling the Titanic. IF this is the case, instead of spending money on two products to make them mediocre, spend on one product and make it class leading. the bottom line is GM whittled away in their arrogance of their loyal market and didn't bother to check that the competition's cars were spanking them in every sector. Besides the corvette I can't think of one GM that is totally class leading. that's a damn shame

Fixing Nissan took a number of relevant products. That's all. Relevance to the marketplace! How relevant was the Altima? Well, when it was released it was winning or placing high in comparos left and right. How relevant was the G35? Winning or placing high again. that's all man, it comes down to relevance! How relevant are GM's products to the average consumer who couldn't care less about loyalty. Don't try and make excuses

G4 would be nice, but it depends on what you're trying to make. If they can decrease the weight enough to make a small pocket rocket, that would be ideal. But that's just not gonna happen. The only platform mate they can ideally make from this is a nice GTO, differentiated, and maybe a mate to the 4- door, and finally distinctively and strongly styled.

ahhh...i really wish press photography would include different colors, the tahoe looks like it will look awesome, and the color choices are great.

We are not complaining about the current management only. The current management should have begun reacting when Lutz came in. Why did it only take Ghosn two years before the Altima came out. I'm sure it might have already been in production, but he brought with him an emphasis on risky design. It paid off. Lutz brought with him a bold new thought about product design. Why did it take so long to implement. Why has it been four years, and we haven't had a mass market vehicle that was fully under his watch? Okay, going beyond that, GM should have been spending more dollars per car a long long time ago. Whether they didn't have enough money is another argument. If that was the case then they needed to focus in and BUILD BETTER PRODUCTS. I won't cry and weep over the fact that they didn't have the foresight to kick the competition to the curb. They let too many competition come in and steal their turf from under their feet. They have no one to blame but themselves.

GM should have started spending more money per car a long time ago. This would have helped the market share slide. Yes, more competitors mean less share. Especially when you are giving away share by not building competitive products. Remember, the best advertisement is the rolling one. More people have the car, means more people think it must be a good car and then go and give it a try. The old envious way of humans. People soon discover how good those Japanese cars are and more and more people are gettiing them, more and more people wnat them. GM could have controlled that market share slide by building cars that were up to standards of the world a long time ago. Michael Moore may not know what he is talking about with regards to the cuts, but he is damn right in asking the GM execs if they've ever driven a Honda or Nissan. DAMN RIGHT. Michael Moore---well I won't get into this debate. A lot of people are spewing opinion as if it was fact. True he is very manipulative in his arguments, BUT HE USES FACTS FACTS FACTS. HE may use facts to distort more of his opinions, but he uses facts nonetheless. Facts are at the foundation of his argument. Like, oh ya, Iraq didn't attack us. Why haven't we captured Osama? Facts like those. Moore is not trying to heighten his cause for his own sake. Take a look at his charitable donations--they are as much as celibrities ten times richer than he is!!! Focus in on the stories he focuses in on, yes he uses them manipulatively--or maybe he actually gives a damn about those people who are clearly and sadly suffering. People like the mother of the child in Flint MI, in Bowling for Colombine. Moore can own whatever he wants to. Stop complaining that he has purchased an apartment in Manhattan, should I go to your house and steal all the fine jewelry and ask you why aren't you living in poverty? Is that patriotic? The question was asked has Moore ever thought of buying a Flint, MI built GM vehicle. Let me ask you, why in the world does anybody HAVE to buy something he/she doesn't want? Yes, he can still support GM and its factory workers, but this is the free world, he has the RIGHT to choose whatever car he wants. If he chooses to buy GM, good for him, if he doesn't, it was probably because he found something better.

Without questioning what Chazman has to say, he's an excellent source, the Camaro might not be on Kappa Plus, but it could still be encouraging they are showing us something on Kappa plus, if indeed Camaro concept is on kappa. I still doubt this will happen to, but autoweek talking about it is just more positive news, right?

why are you guys still arguing about this in this thread. get over it or make a thread in the ford section. the point that people will search within a given price range and look at all the alternatives has been made again and again. let's get back to topic

I tried HARD to find something tasteful, but this is it, not a big fan but it's cool enough: some Japanese love!

Big and Beautiful!

WOW BEAUTIFUL!

Polish_Kris, I am a strong dissenter of that whole media is responsible for the darkness crap, if GM were up to the task of producing great cars, the media would have to report on it. It's thier job to be honest otherwise their credibility would be shot. However, the REAL core problem is most definitely IMAGE. Image that is perpetuated in the media when fifty million reports are released in one week about GM's bankruptcy possiblities, and no one really reports straight from the horse's mouth, which if you asked Bob Lutz, he would say bankruptcy is not an issue, and point to upcoming products. The media reports using scare tactics. That is true of every media resource. They prey on fear and doubt. Cause that's what sells. Anytime a period of drama is occurring they report the hell out of it. It's what happens in Hollywood, it's what happens to the NBA when a basketball player hits someone, it's what happens when the latest natural disaster hits. Sensationalistic news sells, and when it comes to GM, the product reviews may be fair, but there is a lot more sensationalism going on to.

So it seems a lot of this is more exaggerated than it actually sounds. Though the sounds of 30k people losing thier job is not something to take lightly. I am glad to hear this won't be affecting product plans, and that a new efficient and poweful GM is still coming from this. One thing of note, they haven't given the Impala a chance yet, yet they are already planning a downsizing of its market? This speaks of the plans for the future more than anything, I think. I hope this means they figure most people will go into the new Malibu for 2008 (?) and the new RWD sedan. Most people, from these boards, say they would prefer RWD, and the 300 has proven the mass market will follow suit.

read the other thread, explanations from ah-ha on the reality of plants closing.

yes, it's fair. Of course, for comparison purposes in print no one would ever go into the logistical nightmares of comparing such an assortment of models, but in real life people look at the options and weigh what the best car is for them based on what's important. Price, size, value, and style and important qualifications for this.

in price, the 500 is entirely competitive with the camry, except for incentivized Camrys, which are the norm around here I guess. In versatility, dynamics and roominess the 500 easily trounces the Camry. Not so sure about engine performance [haven't driven them back to back], and interior quality definitely still goes to the Camry.

actually, it might not be....they are building a blue devil after all that will make over 600 hp, would be the top dog GM car, anything under that would be fair game for other cars.

I think it does succeed at separating itself, favorably. Teh retro issue aside, it's a pretty sweet car, I just wish the front end was a little less blatantly '70's. I agree with 68 that these cars were copies of the 1st gen Camaro, that side profile is exactly the same down to the same c-pillar shape. Even though I like Chris, no offense, but no one here was upset. And even if it's a concept it is our right to critique it, that's what we're here for and that's what the message board is for. No one was out of line as far as i can tell, except maybe for fly for interceding where it wasn't really necessary, sorry, just calling it like it is.

I agree, it is too retro. It's a bigger rehash than the Mustang is.

Autoweek has pictures of the new Dodge Challenger. The retro car is completely uncovered, and looking very nice. What do you think? Rising to the Challenger: Detroit auto show debut for Dodge muscle coupe concept BOB GRITZINGER Posted Date: 11/20/05 To all those purists who still can’t forgive Dodge for building a four-door Charger, here’s your answer: the 2006 Dodge Challenger concept. The Dodge boys released a sketch of the car to the world, but we obtained these exclusive spy photos of the car, which will premiere at the North American International Auto Show in January in Detroit. Challenger draws on the 1970 model as the icon of the series, says Tom Tremont of Chrysler’s Pacifica studio in California. But instead of merely recreating that car, designers tried to build the Challenger most people see in their mind’s eye, without imperfections like the tucked under wheels and long front overhang of the old car. At the same time, the concept incorporates distinctive Challenger cues like the rear fender kick, wide mouth front end, functional hood scoops and rectangular exhaust tips. Dodge Challenger at Autoweek

It's the Challenger, completely open to the public. Crazy, it's very very very much a copy of what was before. Don't know what I think about that, it's sexy for sure, but it's a complete rehash, shows no creativity. The Camaro will probably be worlds better... Challenger at autoweek

I agree with this thinking for someone who I would actually go out with. I wouldn't want someone I am attracted to, to dress like this or behave like this. But I also think there are some women who are like portraits, and it's good to see them doing different things, including, well looking like this, as unbecoming of them as it might seem to us who don't prefer that look.

I figured there might be someone here, you know someone who always likes to pick a fight, someone who can be quite sensible, but always has something to say on everything. I thought he could possibly say something negative about her, and I just wouldn't be able to stomach that

that's it z28, the pictures are incredibly well done, and the subject, well she looks.....incredible. My favorites are 5 and 6, just thought the first one would be shocking enough to grab attention, oh yea and her body..