turbo200

looks great, now bring it here.

Hmmm.... :huh: I think... I think evok was agreeing with you BV. I don't beleive he was speaking against you, but against those that were saying they would be laughed at in a Grand AM, and not in an Alero, which is just kind of ridiculous to say, imo. They're almost the same car, design-wise, and the Grand Am is the more masculine of the two, by FAR... I think...you were coming from a logical place. I think the low place he was referring to was maybe getting sick and tired of the "out there" opinions...... maybe :AH-HA_wink: :)

I'm going to get pelted for saying this, but it is the truth and nothing less: the current CTS falls short of the current CAMRY in terms of materials quality. The current CTS has all kinds of hard, brittle cheap and shiny plastic, check those sunroof controls, check those hard door panels, check the center stack's hard brittle plastic. However, the CTS is the car I'd want to be seen in, there's no contest in that department.

ah, but Saab is one of GM's only global players, and has potential for a much stronger presence in Europe. Trying to think from a GM exec's perspective, I don't really see a reason to cut any of the brands. Hummer is profit central, and has a great future as long as they can continue to execute Hummers with undeniable Hummerness. Buick, Pontiac, and GMC, well they can continue to coexist happily in the dealerships, and will most definitely, as long as the right products are introduced, increase volume, not decrease. Saturn has a bright future thanks to great products and hopefully an expanding dealer base. Saab is doing poorly, but only has two, outdated, fully Saab-like vehicles. Saab has been hemorraging for a long time, but has never been given a chance to succeed, much like Buick, or been given the wrong chances, much like any GM brand.

let me get this out first. If GM didn't produce "good" cars, there would be no more GM. There would be no loyal customers. There would be no fleet customers. There would be nothing. Unfortunately, good enough is no longer enough. Americans, from the same country you are from, are choosing European and Japanese cars in droves every year increasing more and more, while GM decreases every year. Let me tell ya, they are not coming to cheers and gears and taking turbo200s advice and going out to buy _________import. I called you uninformed based on your knowledge of automobiles. Anyone who says GM's cars are up to ALL standards of the Japanese and Europeans, I will call them ignorant, without a doubt. I don't mean to offend, and I don't think you took it that way, so good, but I am no smoke blower. Fortunately the good products will be coming very soon. Some have already come out, HHR, Solstice I can say are pretty much at the level of the competition. GM needs to leave the compromises behind to impress me. Until then, you can be stubborn and undiscerning....

How do you explain the lack of sales? Pricing is in the upper range of the Taurus, but starting in the midrange of the Accord and Camry. The 500 offers tons of space, greaat chassis dynamics, and a good quality interior. Engine power is adequate, and considering your thoughts on styling you must think engine power is not prioritized in this segment either. I subscribe to the thought that engine power and good style will be a plus that will be attractive to many people. A lot like Mazda has effectively marketed sport in their cars, and delivered the goods to back it up in the 6. Also how Nissan put an emphasis on engine power and design, that paid off well for them. Good design is what will save the American automakers, don't doubt it one bit. I do believe good quality is the foundation for any successful automobile, but a nice stylized and attractive design will increase the gotta have factor tenfold.

Autoweek says Camaro concept will be on stretched Kappa platform. Fbodfather has aready said that the concept chassis will not be what the production Camaro will be on. Production Camaro will be on a platform using parts from sigma and zeta, and probably be called zeta.

And it's obvious from your posts where you are coming from....narrow-minded, uninformed, stubborn, arrogant.. Have you ever sat in and compared the competition's cars to know where GM stands in the consumer products world? This is what it comes down to, they are selling a product, and the product needs to be worthy to the consumer. In order to reach the consumer you have to test what is selling and make something better than that. Honda and Toyota have cars that are benchmarks in many areas, GM is always one generation behind. The current Malibu has an interior design/quality that matches the 2000 era Camry. It's a damn shame GM works so hard to sabotage its own car makes. Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, Pontiac all have a glorious history that deserve cars befitting of the highest standards in quality and DESIGN. GO away with the blandness.

There has been much talk about what will happen at Oshawa when the Lacrosse and GP are discontinued. Lacrosse will be built on Epsilon 2, meanwhile Oshawa 2 will be converted to C-Flex, or just flexible manufacturing. It will most likely build RWD cars on the Zeta or Sigma Lite platform. Camaro could be built there, along with a large RWD sedan for Chevy probably named Impala.

That's right. Clark was an incredible candidate, and an incredible general. I hope he can find more support this time around and make a run for the DNC. I don't know why, but I can't see Hillary winning enough support around the country, it's not that she's got a bad history or anything like that, I don't know that many people around the country are ready to vote for a woman.

it does :) congrats on the new car!

I actually quite love the pimped out versions. This is a characterful design and the wheels make it that much more appealing.

I beleive, before 2004, Michael Moore was a registered Independant, so he would have supported Ralph Nader. In 2004 he switched, along with a ton of liberal celebrities who were registered Independants, in order to see Kerry elected.

it was right in line with where it should have been. i just came off really strongly in my post, thanks.

you've posted the same thing at CZ28. I posted something in response and you never bothered to say anything about it. You are severely mistaken, Buickman. Where are the products we were promised? Where are the gotta haves? Where are the fullfilled responsibilities you speak of? When was the last time you saw a Buick place higher than 3rd or 4th place in a compairson in the major magazines? You'll have to think a long time back. Even with thousands and thousand of dollars off the metal, Buick's market share is still decreasing. What is the problem? Desirable product. It goes no further than this. I am tired of you ignoring sensible posts, we should just ignore you, because you are not sensible. BUICKMAN has called for the UAW to STRIKE over at CZ28!! How in the world could that help profits, sales, GM's health? I'll answer that one. In no way would a strike be beneficial to GM's fortunes right now. Your plan won't be implemented, give up!! Clearly, if you were shot down once, you would have tried to see what the fatal flaw was there, and you would have fixed it. With your limited perspective in Michigan where all things GM matter, you have no view of the most important markets where GM has lost all of its business. In order to get back to a healthy state, GM will have to stop thinking with the Detroit mindset, where everything domestic sells, and start thinking with the world mindset, where quality and design rank above all else in consumer products. Ultimately the product is about the consumer. GM lost touch with the consumer and is now paying for it. They didn't serve the customer, idiots!!!!!! They should have listened long ago. Thank God, there is a glimmer of hope coming in the form of Lutz cars, the holy grail of Wagoner's tenure with GM.

happy birthday and thanksgiving!

happy thanksgiving day

Now you want open a wholly different can of worms. Something I don't care to go into, I here enough about this war already to argue for or against it right now. As for tracking the competition, yes you are right, the engineers do bring the competition and benchmark them. If you read correctly though Moore's comment was directed at executives. From this website and others you can learn it's not the engineers that don't design the cars up to standards, it's the beancounters that take the uniqueness and quality out of the design. There's a reason why GM's interiors have always been Fisher Price and showed almost no design reach, the way oh MB or VW have.

I'm sorry I came off like an ass when I said that to you, it was more of what was going on in the whole post. there was no hostility towards you.

hehe, thanks

The problem with escalating costs has only now become a problem because the market has gotten so far out of thier reach, that incentives have to constantly be used. Let's not get confused and forget the beginning of this decade that saw GM boasting about the wonderful profits and sales of the GMT 800s that were keeping the company afloat. Well, that could only happen for so long, and GM saw some decreasing market share in those areas, and shot itself in the foot by ramping up incentives just to keep the factories humming. Yes, overcapacity was and is still a huge problem, so why weren't factories closed along time ago? There's no defending GM's problems. They have all been caused by ripe product that was so half-baked, and seemingly from the last century in certain areas, that they just lost the cachet factor. And the cachet factor, in something so public and personal as one's automobile is a B I G deal. GM missed out on the boat. I am ranting now, but GM was making money for LOTS and LOTS of years, and only NOW has added to the investments they are making in product. ONLY F%%%%%%%%NG NOW???!!!!

it shows we're reasonable and willing to be objective, even though it's in the wrong place [not this thread, even though I am being off-topic now too, and usually am off-topic anyways], at least it shows we can hold intelligent [most of the time ;)] conversations and make intelligent judgement calls that are not all that biased.

pretty much what I have been thinking. yet again GM putting all thier eggs in one basket. and talk about derivatives of every model for each division. all this talk about marketing costs, don't they ever think about is this model worth the marketing costs down the line? Is it different enough that it will attract enough people to justify the marketing costs. If these will be just mere rebadges, then there is no damn sense in putting extra money into them. Just make on spectacular product instead!!!!

somebody with time and a camera needs to post pictures and a review of this car soon!

public scrutiny is a part of the deal, and I'm sure he could give two rat's asses about what some internet guys think about him. But if you want to attack the integrity of another man, then you do it according to the standards of integrity you hold for yourself, otherwise you're a hypocrite, end of story.