turbo200

I think that GM is losing a lot of fanbase from these websites now...the people who started out long ago with them are moving on. there is not much left to see. they've tattered and ruined all of the story. the story of the images and names we grew up with or were born into. you know, I don't want to get too deep into this, but all that's left is that people understand the chances for product and natural evolution of the brands have come and gone. a lot of people here are very disallusioned with a company that seemingly can't make any step without feeling like it's going to breakdown. the problem has always been image/style, quality, performance. they haven't made completely satisfying cars/trucks until now, and even now they are few and very far between. had they begun with those tenets whenever they were developing new product, we wouldn't be in the situation we see before us today, where they are so broke and things are so bad they are basically on a path to destruction. thanks to not having any good mass market cars [aside from the just barely introd malibu], they are left in a position of huge weakness.

GM would wait four years after the design was released and it had become stale...release it with one, underpowered and uneconomical engine, and then overprice it relative to the more powerful competition. on top of that, they wouldn't advertise or tell anyone what it was, like a diamond in the rough. i always love smart and smooth looking hatches like this.

the grille design and intakes are having an intersting impact on the front end design. this is really good looking. it also looks like the hood has been modified to change the appearance of the headlamps, either that or this is not the same insignia sedan. could this be the coupe?

I don't think it makes sense as a Buick. too aggressive in image and performance. Buick seems more about relaxed pressure...a smooth torquey V8 to get you there, or a large V6 engine. just more about relaxed cruising, which is what the Velite was all about, for me the perfect expression of Buick's heritage and principles [no, I'll never let that one go]. this makes a lot more sense at Pontiac, euro styling and all. however, this performance edition would be nice to have stateside, and i hope the insignia as a buick doesn't get dumbed down at all. rather see a great european model that drives wonderfully but doesn't fit perfectly at the brand, than some numb atrocious total quality product.

from the picture the front clip is modified only, not even new headlamps. bumper, bonnet and grille have changed. otherwise, it's a volt. not necessarily a bad thing, but i would have liked to see flextreme become the opel voltec car. though that may have just been a picture to the new astra.

if styled right, and that picture from the first page shows how satisfying Saabs can be, this will be a good triple assault on the mainstream lux market from GM. with the lacrosse at the low end, CTS in the future competing more with mid lux sedans, and the 9-5 as an all encompassing exec sedan GM will have a good cover on the luxury market. saab is more acceptable amongst high end shoppers than Buick, and on a par with Cadillac in image perception. if they can get the right product, and with distribution through Cadillac's heavily cemented dealer base, they can move a lot of these. with the right driving dynamics, and maybe a standard Haldex RWD-biased 4 wheel drive setup, this could be a remarkably upscale sedan. this is why saab is a good entity to have in GM. I hope that when they say it won't be a core unit for GM it doens't mean they'll do away with it entirely. though some here see it as stealing from the piggy bank, saab can produce a good level of profit and can go a long way towards cementing a healthier GM. a healthier GM can then produce a good alpha sedan to make pontiac a more compelling sporty affordable car.

the financial situation is certainly one most or none of us are completely familiar with. but this is one of those vehicles that helps define a brand and is a potential big hit/cult status builder. there is a built in audience for this kind of car, and as long as the performance is good it's hit status will only build. being the size of a civic, and FWD mfgrs having proven that is a viable platform for small cars....heck they could build it on the foundations of the current cobalt ss...so long as the interior quality was right, that performance level [cobalt ss turbo] was kept intact, and the concept translated exactly to production, then this would be an application where FWD wouldn't be such a bad thing. sport sedans otoh...

there is the planned Gamma platform Groove based design. Groove seems to share a lot with Orlando, but in person comes across very fun and likeable, the Orlando seems cold and technical at least in the pictures. so this should have that friendly, more character-ful look you're looking for. also Gamma will probably be more the size of the current HHR anyway, on the inside at least.

the painted chrome wheels could point to a defecit in understanding the client that goes after these things. pontiac dealers traditionally associate pontiac buyers with flash, thus let's bling up this expensive G8. but this is going after a sophisticated buyer familiar with performance and luxury cars, looking for a great performance ride that doesn't sacrifice sophisticated looks. i don't like the painted chrome wheels here and i suspect many others also prefer the standard style. GM dealer otoh can't think of a better way to please traditional pontiac folks, flashy wheels! it isn't that i don't sometimes go for the painted chrome look, but the whole inside of the wheel gets lost in the sea of shine.

very impressive. liking the connection to Ford's and Taurus of the 80's and 90's with the back end and conventional headlamps. the interior is phenomonal, this car overall is more impressive than Camry and Accord. why can't it offer a hi po high mileage 4 cylinder, maybe GM should let Ford borrow the 2.4 DI. it's interesting, Ford's fascias, Mustang aside, are not automatically appealing, but this manages to be more engaging than current Ford trend, Fusion and Edge. this could help reclaim some lost glory of the nameplate.

seeing a little saab and opel in the facia...some bmw lines in the decklid...nevertheless chrysler looked to the right inspiration, and hoorah there is also some current sebring and former chrysler/dodge in there. it's great looking, one of thier best in a long time, finally a more traditionally good looking and enduring design, thier most since the 300C. it's being overshadowed by a lot of designers who've got the same religion though. and doesn't this just age the insignia/regal a bit?

very beautiful and in the vein of newer luxury like XF. both are Caddy's true competition when it comes to an upscale look-at-me flagship people mover. the fastback and back end are very cool. a little too icy in expression though, being overshadowed by more approachable design this year, and the influx of good looking cars, i think....but if you're an audi fan, and i am, this is the fix.

finally, Cadillac, some nicely stylized wheels. showing design leadership for a change. whatever happens with production: if you need to change something you should consider how it changes the balance of the design, please. do not just try to capitalize on an already familiar and tested design. focus on beauty, and the concept of the production car will sell itself too. focus on beauty and you will capture the imagination of the public.

this is amazing. haven't had a lot of time to pour over the auto show, but man what a show, how many great looking cars this year. everyone seems to have a hit except maybe the japanese car companies. wow, wow. oh my, this is a good looking car. one that makes me think it is perhaps one of my favorties out now. if this car were to come to production, now, as is, potentially would be, one of the best designs out there, period. yes, as fascinating as some of the beloved alfas, astons, porsches.... let's start with these absolute sporting proportions. no compromises here, if you don't want a sports car, look elsewhere this is just my kind of car though, so i'm biased. the surfacing, excellent and what a great evolution of the new SRX, CTS and XLR in that department, really smoothened and stiffened like a freshly ironed shirt. BMW calling here and thanks for the nod to my influence. then there's the design theme. the heightened emphasis on bold eyes and taillamps yet again, a return to Evoq and Cien design language, with some great mixture Sixteen 'plumpness'. I can't get enough of the fact that they are remaking the Cien, a coupe that should have long ago inspired something at Caddy, and now may finally get to see its day in the sun. finally, they've really adressed personal complaints with regards to the design theme and where they were going, in boldness and character, this is refreshing, powerful, elegant, swift, and just daring. nothing short of perfection. on the interior. let's hurry and get that incorporated into all Caddy's super large screen imposed permanently and included. i love the distance they went with this 'concept' incorporating wood, a mixture of materials, and lovely colors. the wheel is just fabulous. charge me $50k, sign me up.

putting them side by side really reveals just how similar the setup is. that is the problem with GM. these interiors have to have different concepts, different ideals behind them. the concept behind the interior is too similar, and mentally at least it reeks of costs savings. you don't see other carmakers doing this....the segment they are pitched at, they design for. EDIT: the similarities in setup does not necessarily prove they are on the same platform or share other real points of consequence. these similarities only show that GM still beleives in sharing the same prototypical interior design amongst many models. take lacrosse and cruze even for example.

i don't think you've been here long enough....we used to have five page diatribes on the virtues of GM producing Velite....and when GM decided not to produce it, ten page diatribes on why GM sucked at product development.

in the end Bush pushed i forward with the authority the Treasury had to use Tarp funds, so no the deal wasn't being sold in those ways as when it was going through Congress as a bill. apparently, the administration still decided to put it in the language of thier own requirements.

we wanted something desirable. they've managed to make the front end desirable. there wouldn't be such a big broo haha over this if you guys took off your blinders, or agreed to disagree and moved on. no one is saying it won't compete well, no one is saying there is no enough feature content or luxury to support the price point above Malibu. no one is saying this isn't a nice car, all we're saying is it's a bit generic, and very Camry-like. guys, you don't have to defend GM on every move or every situation. if you don't feel that I'm right, say it and move on. the car is simply being critiqued for lack of originality........average joe or jo ann consumer is not going to care or give a shred about this factor, they will say this is a nice Buick, I am won over. cool your jets guys. now a very discerning high end buyers, perhaps someone just starting up in the Acura/Lexus town and on thier way up to S-classes and 7-series in the future will look at this and say it's not very daring or original, aside from the front end. as for roundly critiquing everything GM does. there are countless examples where I've praised them endlessly, Malibu, Camaro, Velite....the list seemingly goes on forever. I'm pretty impartial.

"you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

I know many buyers who buy BMWs based on looks, personally, and with the newest generation. but that's another story. they may not fit in all that well in the typical environment, but in a posh place like Beverly Hills, they work very well.

'in profile' for me at the time meant from a rear-side view, not direct side comparison. of course the side produces some difference, but also common themes.

in disbelief you may be, now you will see the angle creted by the C-pillar's flowing and the upkick of the rear deck is exactly the same. the whole darn shape of the rear deck, bumper shape, and dominant themes of the rear very similar. on the sides, if it weren't for the sweepspear or whatever that line on the Buick is called then the camry sides would be exactly the same. no need to fret, the camry has some charm, okay maybe not, BUT that's cause the front end is merely pleasant and not fun or understanding, just reliable and there like a secretary who does the work efficiently. but body-wise, it's very elegant, understated, refined, and even athletic. but this is all nitpicking. this car won't sell on the merits of how many Japanese or European cars it looks like. at the very least the front end is very attractive and distinctive. and the rest of the car is also very desirable. that's what we should be focused on./

i;m not kidding and i'm not blind. go check the profile and uplifted beltline, the exact pivot of the car, the way it stands on its feet/tires, even the whole shape of the rear, and the sides, the height of the beltline and the effect that carries, the simple tall sides, the surfacing is reminscent of each other. but most similar are the stance/profile and the shape of the car when viewed from the rear. i'll have some pictures in a moment, but why is this thought so incredulous when you've seen others call this Asian and Lexus-like? Have you had enough sight to notice the Camry is Lexus-lite?

i was thinking about the name change issue. i think lacrosse was actually the right decision after all. relaunching a brand today is so common, I mean we're so bombarded as a society with new tech, new visions, improvements on the same concepts, that we're very willing to accept today that something can be reborn, remade into something totally different and get acceptability based on its own merits. look at our new President for example [using the last few words of my statement]. it was the right time to launch something new, I think this car will be one of the few stars of the show, and it will hit a sweet spot at a time when everyone is looking for a downgrade that's still an upgrade. you get me? lacrosse is already in the minds of some, and others have known that buick makes a car named lacrosse, but they haven't associated such an innocuous design. this gives them a chance to change that. now lacrosse will say bold and luxurious and well crafted, and a new age for a seminal car maker---in an idealized picture.

it all comes down to desirability. this is where we are in the marketplace of today, and something as simple as a very attractive face, or very attractive body and a good sophisticated look like that of a BMW, gets buyers lined up. desirability comes in the form of elegance and practicality like the Camry manages to produce, or toned down everyday aesthetics that are both good looking and enduring like the Malibu can accomplish. this car is desirable. it has an x-factor they managed to put in, and that's the implication of a billowing monster from the front end as the hood bulges and you've got the aggressive character in the eyes along with very a very classy and expressive centerpiece in the form of the grille. as far as the asian comments go. this all proves what I've been saying all along, the camry is good looking and athletic. take the conensus here and that's that people like the look of this car, but some feel it's too much like other cars. now go outside, look at a camry in profile and from the rear. it's essentially this car. all the camry has is a different face, and even the worst a fool can say about that car is ooh what an offensive face, even though it's not at all offensive, it's just not your taste. so, yes, this does look Asian/Lexus-like/Camry like. Toyota cribbed many design themes from BMW to create thier new design theme at Lexus, though they kept the surfacing simplistic and watery like the outgoing 7-series only more liquid-like and flowing......and they used those design cues for the Camry. so this proves roundabout fashion that everyone here is being biased when they hate on toyota without giving them some credit for doing at least one thing right. if you love this buick, then there are things you love about the camry. gotta say it.