thedriver

Generation X but I feel cheated. How come my generation is only 15 years long while all the others are 20? X should be 65-85, not 81...

How about a 2 row 6 passenger CUV? You know, the kind with a FRONT BENCH. I have a short wheelbase minivan now, I don't want to get a longer one or a larger CUV and I am always using 5 seats with an occasional 6th, in 2 years I have never needed all 7. I have to carry the third row around because of the need for that last seat. There just aren't any 6 passenger vehicles around anymore that get 25 MPG or better, cars or trucks.

Yeah, its boring, but it's a Corolla, so they will be lining up at the doors for it. Toyota (and Honda to an extent) have learned that it doesn't matter what it looks like, people are buying the name. GM used to inspire that sort of confidence, but not for about 40 years...

I was thinking about this the other day. I tend to drive til its dead, unless something odd happens. Everyone else?

Personally, I like cladding if it is done tastefully. . .

The president of my company just received her 4-door Wrangler. By itself this is meaningless, however I include three key pieces of info: 1. She ordered it rather than choose from the lot. Received last week, ordered in October! 2. Traded in a Honda Element. (She also owns an S2000) Conquest sale. 3. Her husband is sales manager of the local Kia dealership. Didn't buy a Sorento.

With the introduction of the Car Of Tomorrow, Ford is staying with Fusion, Toyota is running Camry, Dodge switched to Avenger which is the smaller car that real-life competes with the others, why isn't Chevy going to Malibu instead of using Impala? Impala is just not the same class as the others. I know it is "large mid size" but come on... This would have worked if Dodge stayed with Charger, Ford moved to Taurus (which also doesn't work that well) and I don't know what Toyota would use, Avalon maybe? I know they are trying to stimulate sales of the Impala, and in a couple of years it will be more appropriate with rear drive coming back, but the new Malibu would benefit with the sales boost just as well. .

Actually, the Camaro looks like the Concorde. The Chrysler was first to market. . . :AH-HA_wink:

Pontiac Trans-Am. In black. Loved them after seeing Smokey & the Bandit, reinforced by Knight Rider. Almost bought a final year one, but just didn't have the cash. Someday I will have one, but anymore, there is a long list

I am surprised that being C&D they left out their recent favorite "truck' the Honda Ridgeline. Other than that, the results aren't unexpected, especially for the Ford and Dodge. They are the oldest and most outmoded in this test, especially the Ford which seems to get by on it's history rather than current abilities.

I have to disagree. I think the seling of foreign product under American brands is watering down Ford and Chrys ler. GM has resisted this except for the Zeta chassis and the Opelization of Saturn. Ford is selling a Volvo and 2 Mazdas wrapped in Ford clothes. The only domestics left are Mustang and Crown Vic. Dodge is selling 2 Mitsubishis and half a Mercedes. The truck side of things hasn't changed much, yet, unless you are GM selling Isuzus. I am in the vast minority, beliving that the notion of a "world market" is only benefitting the strugling nations at the expense of those better off, I feel that the domestic brands should focus on building cars for here and selling them other places rather than importing parts and engineering for parts of the market they "cannot compete in" or "cannot afford it". The notion of an "American car company" is well on its way to extinction.

The thing of it is, Saturn is forevermore typical GM. They have lost what was different and are now just another branch.

The Death of the Saturn Auto Company (Alas, we hardly knew ye) The upcoming Chicago Auto Show is touting a full lineup of Saturn’s best and brightest, an all-new lineup in less than two years, full of Euro flavored promise as the brand moves upscale to do battle with competition both foreign and domestic. But at what cost? The concept of affordability and innovation has all but left this young division of General Motors, to be replaced by high content in a slick package, the only remnant being the hope of bringing import buyers into the GM fold. This is by no means a condemnation of Saturn, only a reflection of what the company has left behind. When the Saturn corporation was conceived in the late 1980’s it was meant to lead the GM charge against the Japanese onslaught, providing them with a small, well built car with such innovations of the time as plastic body panels, SOHC and DOHC highly efficient engines, their own factory shared with no one, and even an unusual way of doing business — the “no haggle” pricing strategy. None of these ideas were new, but they had never been combined in one place before. GM spent billions of dollars in creating the brand, but still hedged their bets, giving the new sedan styling close enough to Oldsmobile that the car could be moved over if necessary and an irony apparent since Saturn has moved into the market position of that now defunct nameplate. The fledgling company became a phenomenon, selling three variations on a single platform, dubbed the “S-series”, with a coupe, sedan and wagon in trim levels from bare bones transportation to fully equipped runabouts, with a unique engine in two flavors, a specialized “lost foam” block casting process, plastic panels arranged over a steel cage, excellent fuel mileage and reliability unheard of from a domestic manufacturer. How many other carmakers have attracted such a following so quickly and emphatically that they attended an annual Homecoming at the headquarters in Spring Hill, Tennessee? And yet, if everything was going so well, why tamper with success? Appearances can be deceiving. A hardcore fanbase and excellent product is not a winning business case if the sales dollars aren’t there. And they weren’t. The sizeable investment GM put in was never going to be paid back at the level of sales they were having, they needed more than a niche player. A thorough redesign for 1996 was not enough, something more was needed to shine in a crowded segment with ever more tough competition. The decision was made to dilute the formula. Corporate decided one of the problems was lack of product. Trying to preserve the unique flavor of the company a new line was deemed necessary, something in a mid size but decidedly different. A solution was found at GM Europe, the Opel Vectra. Simply making a copy or importing wouldn’t do the trick, it lacked the Saturn character. The car was substantially reworked, adding plastic door panels and fenders, making the interior and exterior more “American”. It appeared in dealerships for the 2000 model year. It failed. The buying public never took to the car, even after a facelift. The next step? The Vue SUV. It stayed closer to the original formula, plastic body panels, styling similar to the S-series, a product dedicated to Saturn. It worked far better; the sales met all expectations. But it was too little, too late. The different kind of car company was reeled back into the boat that was General Motors. Different became the same. The Saturn Vue morphed into the Chevrolet Equinox and then Pontiac Torrent. The replacement for the S-series, now called the Ion stayed with the original formula, plastic panels and unique design, but chassis and engines were shared with the Chevrolet Cobalt. The eventual replacement for the L-series called the Aura shared many components with the Chevrolet Malibu and Pontiac G6. The Relay minivan, and even the latest Sky and Outlook are shared with at least two other divisions. The only part of GM allowed to keep to itself now is Cadillac. When Oldsmobile was closed down there was a gap left in the GM structure — the European-flavored, near-luxury competitor. Saturn was slowly being groomed for this position. Where does this leave Saturn? Ostensibly in a better position to compete. Instead of one or two products there is a full line of five. More parts sharing means lower costs. Was this the right thing to do? Has Saturn lost its soul? Scion has shown that a niche player can be viable if the product is compelling, and the parent company is willing to be patient. But that parent also has to supply time and money, resources that have been scarce of late at General Motors. Saturn now has the product, if the perception of the different car company can be swayed to this new idea, Saturn will come out better than ever. But the little car company that could is consigned to history. The king is dead, long live the king.

I was taught to always downshift, later reinforced by an ex-SCCA racer. After owning 4 vehicles with a stick, I replaced only 1 clutch, and that was at 165,000 miles. . .

I thought Bob Lutz said no more angry toasters. . . The interior is nice tho, they even copied the Sebring center stack shape and color

Goes to show, you can't polish a turd. The wing sucks, the buck teeth suck, the rest isn't too bad-kind of reminds me of the last gen Grand Am.

Yes, but how do you really feel ? Please don't hold back. :AH-HA_wink:

I concur with several here, it is pretty cool, but not as a Jaguar. The headlights meh, the grille not too shabby. The overall shape is sweet.

Yahoo Article story is self explanatory.

Bench seats can be done well, look at the full size pickup market. A nice bench, well padded for all, plenty of storage, all that is missing is the shoulder belt. If there were any cars being made that are wide enough for such an arrangement that is. .

The Ford Edge and Mazda CX-7 shouldn't even be in the running, they aren't trucks. Even by admission of their own manufacturers, they are "car based crossovers". I know the Fed Gov has "definitions" of what is a truck and what isn't, but come on. . .

I like it. Way nicer that the G6, but I have never really liked that car.

HAH! Toyota can stick that in their Prius and smoke it!

Exterior: looks too. . . foreign? More East than West unfortunately. Like a Hyundai or Kia. Interior: very nice, retains the versatility while upgrading appearance. Overall score: 5

I would count the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger as midsized. Hella big interiors, but short overall length.