regfootball

Chevy's products are right sized now. The Impala is the right size. The new Malibu is the right size and is spaced enough apart down from the Impala. The new Cruze which i will sit in soon if its a bit bigger than the current Cruze will still be adequately down in legs and girth from the new Malibu. We know the Sonic is adequately spaced down from the Cruze, and the same with the Spark to the Sonic. Chevy has all the size bases covered now with their lineup. Your points about what prices the RWD etc. Impala would sell at yes in fact is too much and means its not an Impala anymore. Could it be an Avenir? Yes, perhaps much better. The current Impala already pushes its price ceiling when optioned at 40 grand etc. Chevy has done a great job pushing up real transaction prices of the Impala with the new body style. And yet they still have kept acceptable prices for the Chevy crowd. The impala sells for less than the XTS by a bunch. The new LAcrosse will move up in price. I don't see a low volume RWD chevy sedan being able to match the pricing structure of the current successful Impala. GM wants to sell the current body style of the Impala for at least 8-10 years I bet. The previous Impala went like 8 years. They will want to max out as many units as they can on it so they have no plans to give up on it any time soon. If anything i bet they put a new 2.0 or 1.8 turbo in it as the base engine at some point....which would easily extend the life of that car. If they ever do bring a RWD impala they would probably still sell the current one as 'Limited' or 'Classic' for at least 2 years just because they can. Look at how long they sell the Captiva. There is NO ONE out there I know of that would ever be looking at RWD Impala anymore. My uncle / aunt looked at the new Impala but got the GMC terrain because it had AWD. Even when Chevy adds all those new crossovers in the next two years, that is still not going to open up any new demand for a RWD CHevy sedan.

The key to the SUV over the Impala is more room and higher ground clearance. Durability still is not a strong suit but some departments will sacrifice it in the name of MPG. A Colorado based SUV would be a good option here. If GM does a RWD car they would kill the FWD Impala as why would you offer both. It is bad enough they are so close tot he Malibu in size now. You are not going to get to $28K. First that does not buy you much Malibu now let alone an Impala. Start it around 33K and top the SS at mid 40's like an SS Camaro. Special editions could be offered in low numbers at higher prices. They just pad profits. The whole point is why have a FWD Impala when you already have a new Malibu and new Lacrosse that have the whole spectrum covered? Also where else in the world would the Impala sell well other than Canada? A V6 model in a police package would give better handling, MPG and still run a high 13 second quarter performance. the same reason why you don't kill a lambda size Acadia and expect that Acadia owner to get an Enclave or a Traverse. The Impala driver doesn't want or need to step up to the LaCrosse. The LaCrosse isn't cheap enough to appeal to those who want a large fwd car unless they de-content the base version. no one buys performance cars anymore, which is why a RWD car won't sell in masses.........which is why no one buys the SS. G8 v6 sold like a turd it was, no reason to believe an Impala RWD v6 would do any better. The RWD used to own the cop segment but now they want Explorers instead. The new Malibu is a light car and the number of people who would want a larger more stout version of that in FWD is still way higher than any group that would want a Chevy badged RWD full size car at this point. The best way to do a RWD full size car would be to add it to the Buick stable as the Avenir. And then if you want to, commit to a new version of the SS, but not replace the Impala. Toyota still has the Avalon. It's a pulled Camry. That's far easier to do then a whole new chassis just because its RWD, and it won't sell in the states unless you call it a performance car. And that is a niche. GM could sell more SS if they advertised it and it looked good, but they would also have to drop the price. It's one of those deals where they may grab some sales in year 1 and 2, but after that it would be 20k a year. And they'd basically siphon the RWD crowd from Cadillac. Again think globally. All 4 GM divisions would move enough of these cars to see a good profit at even only 50K units which is very obtainable. The reason the Zeta has not sold is pretty simple. For one it is not cheap. Two it is only sold in one variation. Three it is damn old. Four the styling while not bad is nothing to get exited about. GM did not advertise it as they only expected to import a small number. They also knew this car was a lame duck coming in as they knew it was to die soon. A V6 Alpha body sedan has every reason to do well and much better than the G8. The G8 was a turd to drive. The V6 Camaro will rune 13.5-13.6 quarter mile times, drive circles around most modern day sedans even without an SS on the flank. Or do you hate to have a standard Impala that is better than some of the better performance sedans on the market. Just look at what the V6 Camaro can do and you will see a standard car of world class quality. Give me a reason to make another FWD sedan that basically matches the Lacrosse and Malibu? Why would you need a 3rd car of the same thinking? Would it be better to offer something different and something much better and newer than the LX cars? Or we can continue with the North American only Impala FWD and just watch as its sales continue to drop below 100K and match up more with the Taurus at 50K. Like it or not the Malibu as it is now will do a lot of damage to the Impala sales. It is a much better car at a cheaper price with about the same rear seat room. You could not say that last year but you can now. the Impala is still plenty larger in width and girth and legroom inside in comparison to the new Malibu. More importantly, it has a much more detailed interior, better seats, nicer dash. We know the Malibu is a nice car now but I personally know people that would think the new Malibu is still too light, not nice enough, plus, the Malibu only has 4 cylinders. If there is no other reason to have the Impala, it is because it has the 6 cylinder. The reason the Taurus is down to 50k or whatever is the new styling which was cool in 2010, wore off in 2013. The interior is not as large as the car (but it sure has a huge trunk). People complained it was large and heavy and you couldn't see out of it. My best analogy with the Impala is still the Avalon and the Maxima. Some folks don't want Camry's and Altimas because that is slumming. You send the RWD folks to Inifniti and Lexus. The LACrosse is Buicks car but the Impala does great numbers still despite that. So, difference of opinion. The G8 v6 was a turd and no one wanted it. The G8 v8 only sold as a performance car. The SS only is offered as a performance car. Much of the country due to weather and many of the buyers due to times changing just don't look for RWD cars in the showroom anymore.....the only exception is the smoky burnout / racing crowd. They are all dying off if they are any left. The younger set wants wither 3 series sized cars or WRX's and such. The smoky burnout crowd is not going to replace the current Impala volume, and the LACrosse + Malibu combo is not going to absorb the losses if you kill the fwd Impala. That's why Chevy has a 15% off MSRP incentive on unsold 2015 SS's now.

AMG=SS cobalt SS, MAlibu SS, etc. Germany's model proliferation will come back to bite them in the butt

http://blog.caranddriver.com/previously-manual-only-ford-focus-1-0l-ecoboost-now-available-with-automatic/ 1.0 3 cylinder Focus now available with automatic. new 16 Cruze has one more cylinder and lots more power, and gets better mpg and can actually be cheaper

not bad really. But still not available till 17

The key to the SUV over the Impala is more room and higher ground clearance. Durability still is not a strong suit but some departments will sacrifice it in the name of MPG. A Colorado based SUV would be a good option here. If GM does a RWD car they would kill the FWD Impala as why would you offer both. It is bad enough they are so close tot he Malibu in size now. You are not going to get to $28K. First that does not buy you much Malibu now let alone an Impala. Start it around 33K and top the SS at mid 40's like an SS Camaro. Special editions could be offered in low numbers at higher prices. They just pad profits. The whole point is why have a FWD Impala when you already have a new Malibu and new Lacrosse that have the whole spectrum covered? Also where else in the world would the Impala sell well other than Canada? A V6 model in a police package would give better handling, MPG and still run a high 13 second quarter performance. the same reason why you don't kill a lambda size Acadia and expect that Acadia owner to get an Enclave or a Traverse. The Impala driver doesn't want or need to step up to the LaCrosse. The LaCrosse isn't cheap enough to appeal to those who want a large fwd car unless they de-content the base version. no one buys performance cars anymore, which is why a RWD car won't sell in masses.........which is why no one buys the SS. G8 v6 sold like a turd it was, no reason to believe an Impala RWD v6 would do any better. The RWD used to own the cop segment but now they want Explorers instead. The new Malibu is a light car and the number of people who would want a larger more stout version of that in FWD is still way higher than any group that would want a Chevy badged RWD full size car at this point. The best way to do a RWD full size car would be to add it to the Buick stable as the Avenir. And then if you want to, commit to a new version of the SS, but not replace the Impala. Toyota still has the Avalon. It's a pulled Camry. That's far easier to do then a whole new chassis just because its RWD, and it won't sell in the states unless you call it a performance car. And that is a niche. GM could sell more SS if they advertised it and it looked good, but they would also have to drop the price. It's one of those deals where they may grab some sales in year 1 and 2, but after that it would be 20k a year. And they'd basically siphon the RWD crowd from Cadillac.

honestly the only people that won't let the large RWD market die are the older set, who grew up on the stuff, and don't have much time left. Really, its like 2016. Most of the general world market won't give two squats if the commodore or caprice or whatever goes away. On commodity cars, the drive wheels are not an issue. Chevy is a commodity brand. If there is a new global RWD impala sized car, i can guarantee, you go to chevy dealer owners in the US and they will rather see the fwd Impala like currently offered because they know they can sell it. meanwhile you have SS chevy's two model years old still sitting on lots and the car itself sells a pittance. Most dealers will say, great i might make a few thousand on each of those 5 chevy SS i sell this year, but it does nothing for my unit volume. No point to a performance Chevy halo sedan anymore when Cadillac has taken that role on in GM. All Chevy needs to do is keep the Camaro fresh and that's all the performance will allow CAFE for these days. It's time for manufacturers to move on. RWD is some sort of rite of passage in the luxury arena and that is why it needs to stay there. We already know what the market is for the performance side of RWD sedans at Chevy anymore. If anything, to make something like an SS more salable here, it needs AWD so people can use the car year round in snow states. Impala vs Malibu is like Camry and Avalon in the states. Just stretch and pull, there is always someone wanting a more tarted up and larger version of the peasant class fwd midsize. It's still going to capture more market share overall. Chrysler has only kept the LX going because they had no other recourse, Tony starved the whole brand, there was no way to put out a new 300, or charger substitute.. Police are taking to the unibody AWD vehicles like the Ford Explorer and Taurus. The need for a police car to be a rwd biased chassis are coming to an end. Just read an article on C/D i believe. Kia K900. Sold 2500 units in the US last year. And the car itself drives like crap. No market is there to improve the car to bring sales up. Why they bothered, no one knows.

all for it if they can push it through, but at the same time, direct sales won't be the holy grail to the consumer like everyone thinks. A tesla is only wanting to sell direct so they can skim the profits more than a dealer can. It's not going to reduce car prices. The market will determine what cars sell for, which mostly for cars is based on how healthy the economy is and people's ability to get credit. Market factors what they are, a Tesla will sell for what a Tesla is worth in relation to everything else. Direct sales means the direct seller makes more of the money. It also means they will look for ways to skirt dealer functions, like service, etc. This is good from a legal aspect. It just isn't going to do anything besides centralize the owner of the retail functions of car companies even more. I for one would like for car dealers to choose to be open sunday in my state if they want. Having worked in car sales i can tell you everyone loved sundays off guaranteed, however, it should not be a law, it should be up to the business owners. Same thing with liquor.......

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/australias-top-selling-new-cars-of-2015-37643 wow, AU sales are a drop in the bucket. Commodore sold 27k? No wonder they shut it down. That's peanuts. Canada's market is probably bigger. More than 1/2 of those commodore buyers won't care in 5 years if the next car they get is FWD or RWD as long as its the same size etc. A fwd impala could easily get rid of the need for a commodore there.

hyper's posts are optimistic, it's like saying if i get elected i will erase the deficit, cure cancer, and end world hunger. Look at AU, at one time the commodore was number 1 in AU but tastes are changing there as well. I thought last i read, the Camry was the biggest seller in AU. I think all that is happening is the buyers in AU who used to love big RWD cars like in the USA are getting beat down into midsize FWD and crossovers like we were here. I think its overstated the need for a large RWD market there anymore. To sell as a volume product, that is. In the US the current Impala still does bang-up as a large comfy front driver, its what the masses want and expect, and the Malibu isn't going to siphon off Impala customers as much as they will siphon off other midsize appliance buyers. The Malibu will cannabilize hardly any of the Impala base if the Impala goes away. There's not enough RWD large car fans out there to build the car as an Impala. Chevy dealers will want any Impala in their showroom to sell in volumes that RWD can't serve. Impala as to remain as a FWD if it remains at all. SS sales are proof how few people care. And the points smk made, right....that's what Cadillac is for now. In fact, Cadillac is sort of the new Pontiac they just make you pay more for it. Exactly right. If you want a RWD car, get the Infiniti. get the lexus. There are those that want RWD for a performance car, and there are adequate choices in the market for that. Once you subtract out those buying RWD only for performance, there is hardly any RWD market left over. You don't get anyone buying RWD cars for the 'ride quality" anymore, because all the FWD and AWD cars have just as good of ride and handling. The tiny volumes of RWD cars meant for luxury can be satisfied by luxury marques. Chryslers 300 sells still because of deep discounts. Minivan market is still 1/2 million a year, that's no chump change. GM did a horrible job of building vans, they were all junk, but they covered their ass for that when they conceived the lambdas (and now they want to throw away that market segment too by downsizing the acadia). Minivan segment is 25x the sports coupe segment like a useless Avista. IMO the volume you'd get out of a large RWD sedan, it should be the dead Buick Avenir. Build an Avenir before an Avista. I see no current chevy police sales around here. Literally NONE. All the cop business around here is Ford Explorers now. A few chargers and some taurus. But the explorer is king for police vehicles here. Chevy's current police sales are really a drop in the bucket. And they are just fleet anyways. Chevy's Impala should still be FWD, similar to why a Maxima is not RWD, Avalon etc. Leave that to the higher up brands.

no point to a future RWD Impala either. It does quite well as a fwd appliance. And right now, there is plenty of size diff between it and the new Malibu. Even if the bu cuts into the Impala sales, the Imp will still sell in nice numbers. Even if the SS was offered for less money and with a v6, it would not sell near what the badge sells now still. With electrics honing in and the advent of self driving cars etc, there is not a need for Chevy to try to make a RWD large sedan. I might even argue its more Buick's territory now, except that Chevy has wider distribution. No need for an Avista either. Coupes apart from Camaro anymore are a hard sell. Cutting the impala from a 80-100k a year seller down to a 30k a year seller would not return those units back to Malibu sales. Just like the last style Impala, I see GM leaving this one on the market in some form for 5-7 years min. The ONLY wildcard here is GM producing a large RWD chevy because global demand like in AU might make a case for it. But that is even stretching it. They would HAVE to add AWD to the option sheet.

I think they could sell 20,000 of them, which for some of GM's products seems to be ok.

The Adam is so unique and interesting, it would be a tremendous brand entry car and attention car for Buick. Instead, they bring over the cascada. Primarily to stuff rental fleets. The Adam is a no brainer to me, but what do i know, Buick just wants to sell snooze mobiles again. The Adam is one of those designs people would talk about.

might be more desirable than the CT6 from a luxury stand point

I had a short drive in both the 1.5 Fusion and 1.6 Escape, they in fact are more refined and drivable than the 2.5. It's just enough of an upcharge though, that i can see why the rentals would have the 2.5 mostly. The 2.5's mpg is pretty average to just below average nowadays too.

Couple quick bits, someone on gm-volt had posted something about someone hitting 80 miles of range one day recently on a 16 or 17 Volt. Must have been all the right conditions. As far as start ups, remember microsoft was in business for almost what, 15-20 years before its success exploded.

Here is a quick follow up, as I took a 2016 Outlander ES FWD out for a spin yesterday. Just to answer the inevitable question, why would anyone care, and yes I do agree with that sentiment as far as the general populace grows. Myself, I have been considering if a compact SUV or a sedan will be my next daily driver. Our main vehicle is a van, so for me, something that is small - mid size for me everyday, but still occasionally capable of some family use. When I compare some of the small SUV's I am looking for the most capability for the buck, and just something cheap to run and decent to drive. Some of the candidates have been like the Escape, CRV, etc. I have not looked at a Rogue yet, but that may fall into the group also. That and the fact the Outlanders have good warranties and prices that often undercut the likes of the Terrains of the world keep it at least on the radar. Absolutely Mits as a brand is always behind the curve. My report here is the -over 100 improvements- to the Outlander does in fact genuinely improve the product. (still withholding judgment on the aesthetic improvements). The engine is unchanged and is still low power and dated. But the CVT has refinements. Lots of NVH refinements for sound deadening and in general. SO this in fact makes for quite a livable vehicle now, despite the old engine. The Honda CRv is a buzzing rattle trap that gets praised for being a pop can. The Outlander is a quieter smoother cruiser than the Crv now. And the CVT is tuned much better. I'm amazed at why Honda gets the buyers they do sometimes. This doesn't qualify the Outlander for A+ status now, but it makes it a legit option B/C status for a lot of people if they compare I believe. For someone who wanted a compact footprint SUV, and just have it be friendly transportation, the Outlander will do the job. It could still use more grunt off the line, and some steering feel. But the interior plastics and controls seem to have improved finishes, and things like aluminum wheels, dual zone climate and leather steering wheel are standard. The extremely flexible second row sliding and folding seat itself is nicely done. Those who need more second row room than the Escape has will like the second row in this vehicle. I am not sure how the Rogue compares, I am curious. The Rogue is extremely popular these days. Of course, it looks great for what it is, and it has the third row also. (3rd row you might use twice a year for lilliputians). The CRv is getting a third row soon also. In any case, it feels pleasant and capable now, instead of unrefined. And so the improvements, is not just bunk. Still room for engine improvements. May be worth a look vs. an Escape, RAV or CRv. May be worth a look to get more room for the $$$$ vs say, an Encore, or other competition. You would think it would be easier to come out of the gate with a fully refined entry.

I had a chance today to take a spin in a 2LT 2.0 Malibu (which I have been wanting to do for awhile) and so it was a great day to do that. This one had cloth seats. I went back and read everything of my original post in this topic and really pretty much all of it sticks. What I like about this car, nothing off putting. No glaring faults. Nothing weird. Nothing ill conceived. That's pretty big for GM. What's even more evident to me about this is how much different it is than the outgoing model, and just how much more in touch with today it is. It feels contemporary, and all of a theme. In the original post I suggested the look is maybe a bit dull and un GM like, but I think I may be taking that back. Now that these have been on the road for a few weeks, and seeing them by the dozens at the dealership, I think it really is a nice new shape. It's clean and crisp and very likable. It sort of goes against the current trend of lots of other cars that have tons of bulges, and strakes, and flame surfacing. The design is very balanced overall and really looks great on the lot. Between my trip today and the last two weekends at the auto show I can tell you this car is going to be a hit. So what did I gather out of my drive of the 2.0 versus the 1.5? So here is the thing, the 2.0 has lots more power. More reserves, more than most will use every day. Its a great option on this car and is for the most part a pretty polished powertrain here. The car itself is still pretty quiet. There is some turbo lag though, and the tranny doesn't downshift -immediately-. You gotta work the throttle for it to tap into its power bank. It's possible they tried to ease the engine response so it wouldn't be a case of a light front wheel drive car and torque steer and spinning fronts. From that aspect, however this car is tuned, the power delivery is not really abrupt. It's really better suited as a cruiser, one with very good passing power. Probably the main takeaway I had was that you definitely notice the extra weight on the front end. It does feel a bit too front heavy with the 2.0. The 1.5 felt light and balanced, and even though i felt the 1.5 just barely crossed the line on adequate amount of power (for me perhaps), I think anyone who claims they like the car with the 1.5 better due to lighter feel and whatever powertrain feel, I can understand that at their word. If you crave power, you gotta get the 2.0 but if you really aren't a complete power fiend I think the 1.5 is probably fine for most people. Myself, between the nose heaviness and less mpg of the 2.0, it really would not be an automatic for me to want the 2.0 outright. I do think I could like the 1.5 as part of the overall car. The 2.0 is probably the better choice for those who do a lot of interstate driving I would imagine. This second test drive reaffirmed a lot of what i mentioned about the interior, the packaging, and the car being easy to use and functional. Nice displays, plenty of room. etc. The lighter colored interior with cloth, the ash gray or whatever, that looks good also. Really like this car. It really is just about right for what I need. I still like some of its competitors, the Mazda6, the Legacy due to its value and AWD, and the Fusion.........but this new Malibu really is a well balanced, contemporary feeling car. Wish the hybrid was out already. Would like to try that on too.

nice write up. The Fusion is a solid car. It's not cutting edge, but it does provide a lot of value and solidness in the class. You didn't happen to try to quantify the mpg you got with the 2.5, did you?

nice write up. I find the 200 appealing for many of the reasons you said. The v6 AWD combo would be a rock star i believe.

Cadillac has some holes to fill and add a few vehicles, but the number of 'models' BMW and Mercedes have is ridiculous.

nice little ride, except for the big SNOUT.

one of my recent places of a work, a young kid fresh out of tech school and his first real job, bought a new Versa and was pretty amped about it. He was never going to get money from his family to buy anything and he wasn't getting paid much. But the low price of the Versa and being new meant it was something the first time buyer could get into. And he likes it....i think the Mirage sedan looks nicer than the hatch and if all it does is provide a decent entry into the city car / low cost / first time buyer car, to me that's alright. Especially with the warranty Mits has. Its not serious machinery......but that's ok here. As long as its relatively safe. I wish it had about 40 more hp though. Local mits dealer had some new carry over mirages listed as best price right under 10k recently.......

something about these things apparently not being able to make it up a hill......

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