regfootball

Ven, the Ion did not change in a substantive way. SUBSTANTIVE way. i.e. brand new dash, brand new door panels. The new seats are cobalt seats. That was a good move. After year one they changed the grain on the dashboard top plastic. It had no net effect because it still was cheap looking overall. the IP was still in the center. The center IP and cheap interior were the main criticisms about the Ion. None of the running changes made a dent in rectifying those faults enough so folks would say, "I've changed my mind, now I like the Ion and will buy it." Even for 2006, they reshaped the center stack so it wouldn't cut into your leg. Nice of them to do that. A useful thing. But that alone doesn't go far enough to CHANGE PEOPLE's OPINIONS from 'yuck i don't like it' to 'yes, now i will buy it'. So, you're wrong, it is indeed the PERFECT example of why they need to bite the bullet and fix their fuckups. The process of carbuilding must become streamlined to the point (as toyota is trying to get to) where on the fly design changes to correct miscues, will need to be able to be accomplished quickly and for less cost. Let me ask the question, the G6 and Malibu climate controls and stereo are horrendously and unforgivingly cheap looking. Is it THAT difficult to make a running change in one model year to improve it so that people's opinions of the car will change and improve? MY GOD I DON'T THINK SO. We can tack on another 500-1000 bucks to the rebate and give them away at employee prices, but we can't change the LED/LCD on the stereo, or make nicer buttons, or a nice center stack plastic design? Blow it out your @$$, GM (Ford, whoever).

blow it out your tushie, what i suggest is actually what they are going to have to learn how to do to survive in the future. if they can't do it now, they better learn how. that, and not cheap out and fuck up the designs from the start. I mean c'mon, are the idiots that prevalent at the car companies that would allow the sea of plastic in the Ion? Or the horrendous Altima interior when it came out. As far as keeping car lines 'fresh', it painfully obvious that now in 2005, a manufacturer has to 'bring it' right at model launch. If not, the car is doomed from the get go and look at what that does to you. Examples, Ford 500 would have sold much better if it had the 3.5 duratec from the get go. Oh no, let's save it for 3 years so in 2008 we can keep the lineup 'fresh'. Good job, no one will care in 3 years when 10 asian automakers have spit out ten new sedans in that time. Look at all the sales you lose in those 3 years? In Fords case, they probably lost a ton, at least 50,000 units. Or more, due to the media and public criticism from the start. My God, at least pump another 25 hp out of the Duratec 3.0 then. You did it for the Fusion! I can bet the Ion would have sold 100,000 more units or more in its first 4 model years if it had a better interior and IP. No one cares about cars like the mazdaspeed Protege and Mazdaspeed 6 because they came along so late in their product cycles. Honestly, its pointless for Mazda to even bring that car out. Ford fixing the oval taurus design allowed them to rekindle sales. This stratified marketing thing is exactly that, marketing. Cars are like consumer electronics now. You better have a correct product from the start, you better be able to bring it to market fast, you better not fuck anything up, and if you do, make the correction quickly, or you're dead in the water. Product cycles are too short now. Everything you are saying is spoke from the vantage point of someone in marketing or beancounting and honestly, vantage points like that hinder product development and success. Quite honestly, if we got rid of the marketing and advertising people in the car business, hell, in MANY businesses, i think we'd be a whole lot better off. Too many marketers are more consumed with marketing as a process, rather than having a knack and knowing all about the products they and their competition sells. The reason the asians are successful is because they bring it all from relentlessly from the model launch and don't do as much of this 'life of the program/keep things fresh' bit. That's all marketing BS. The days are coming soon when model lines may only have a 2-3 year shelf life before the buying public moves on and doesn't care if you haven't 'kept it fresh'. People's attnetion spans today are extremely short and won't wait for lame ass carmakers. Its not my fault if GM sells the Astro for 20 years, doesn't improve the product, AND doesn't spend any money on replacing it so they can keep the plant open and not kill tons of jobs.

SUC-k if you ask me.

to me, the most frustrating thing about domestic manufacturers, and in some instances others like Nissan is this. they lack the flexibility and speed to be able to amke sorely needed changes quickly to a model line after a product launch if they need to. Example..... Saturn Ion got GRILLED for its center mounted IP and crappy interior. Why, 3 years later, do we still not have a new interior for that car? If they were committed to sell the Ion for 4 years or whatever, why throw sales in the tank, fix the fricking interior to make the car desirable! In my opinion, once you release the car if you find it has a negative sales impact, it should only take you 12-18 months to fix the problem. Similar example, the Nissan Quest interior. The Quest was new as a 2004 model. The 2006 should have an all new interior. Seats, dash, trim, gauges, console....etc. It took Nissan far too long to fix the Altima interior. Just now the Malibu is getting some changes in its interior trim colors etc, but they haven't even fixed the cheap center stack yet! Why no 9-3 wagon or v6 until like 3 years after the sedan comes out? Pathetic. Why are so many carmakers slow in getting mp3/aux jacks in the audio systems of cars now that so many folks have Ipods and such? A lot of car lines have issues like this, but I do think that as important as the time it takes them to bring out new models, its just as important for them to learn how to fix tainted models quickly to keep them competitive instead of throwing in the sales towel. I think in general carmakers have been way to slow to respond on the fly to obvious shortcomings in their products.

yes, my sexual preference would be to have sex.

hmmm, did this one go dead.?

love your attitude. you sell cars and simply don't believe that safety is of importance in a vehicle. nice.

correct my statement here if needed, but the 16.99 doesn't give you access to the full service.....? the full service is like 50 a month? if GM were smart, they'd bundle on star as a tack on with cell phone service. if you pay say, 54.99 a month for 2 cell phones (like I do), then add anothefr say 9 bucks a month for basic on star and maybe 25 a month for full on star. that might make it palatable.

here

Skull. Fracture. i hate the sound of that. Wish the side airbags were standard.

many 9-5's, if anyone actually bought one new off the floor, was like 10 grand below list. Will there be an aftermarket sport package for the sport sport combi?

oh, 'they' don't post anymore here.

yeah, the G6 or GP deserve AWD before a frickin cobalt.

well, kia rios and spectras have the side bags standard and the sonatas have em. new accents maybe too. point is, in about 6-12 months consumers who comparison shop will be asking, 'why doesn't the chevy have the side airbags standard?' because chevy would rather charge you extra for safety, ma'am. they'd prefer to see your head popped in a side impact, or they will bend you over for extra cost of the car. "Safety don't come standard on our cars ma'am."

excellent advice. our NOSSIE'S IN LOVE!!!!!! :P :P :P :P dude, I'd do the jen bit. She seems to dig you, I wouldn't let the materialism thing be an issue. That wouldn't be an issue for quite awhile if you dated. And in the meantime you can enjoy her to the maxx. or, you get naughty and try to date 2 girls and once and maybe even go for the trifecta. ok, maybe they are not into that. scratch that, walk before you run brother, and stick with one. Jen sounds like the bit.

its all good, but onstar is still quite spendy.

that sort of stuff alludes to the cheesiness factor I was harping on earlier. most of the general population sees incidents like that and its much stronger in forming their opinion of a union (negatively) than 10 stories on the news about a hard working guy who lost his job or had his pay cut.

here

side airbags and stability control is becoming a necessity in many classes now. Even cars like the Fusion get ripped for not having them standard like the Sonata, which is the new annointed one. Not having ABS standard is a major faux pas. People want keyless entry AND all the safety features standard, and within a year or two it will be the accepted norm. And, obviously, you must not ever have been close to woman. All women, especially ones with children, are huge into auto safety and women affect more car purchase decisions than men. Moms with newborns, safety is like their number one criteria. sadly enough, rear wheels drive and smoky burnouts don't even make the top twenty wants in most people's new cars........but safety is right up there at the top.

thanks

Fisker, they make scissors too. COOL.

ultimately, it simply boils down to that. setting aside the gross abuse of CEO and executive pay. The unions would love to think their pay is intertwined to what execs make. No, its not. The execs will get their pay no matter what. They are ruthless and will find ways to do it with whatever company they can. Its not the job of the union to turn it into a war on execs, it deflects attention from what the union workewr should be paid on a competitive basis. Its not the union's job to use negotiations for their rank and files' jobs as hostage for some sort of lame, amateur class warfare. If we are going to wage warfare of class or whatever on CEO pay, it must occur through public opinion, the media and and all the general sentiment and population. That's the only source of pressure that can affect change, and its mainstream, and not cheesy as it owuld be if the union tried to do it themselves. A union trying to fight that battle is a joke, because all the non-union folks are sitting there watching the tv saying, 'why are all those union people bitching about the executive pay and their own pay? they make assloads more than I do already! How am I supposed to feel for them?' It becomes anti-union angst. People today are too sophisticated to fall for the 'troubled worker' bit. Its so 'early industrial revolution'. In 2005, you have to fuck with people's minds and spoonfeed them info of what you want them to believe in press, marketing, advertising, legal affairs, the courts, schools, you have to wage your wars on cerebral levels with all the soccer moms and testosteroneless makeup wearing men. Threats don't work on the American mind anymore. People are like so, 'whatever', as they sip on their mochas. Example, how else does Toyota sell so many cars? Mental subterfuge. Our tools for fighting wars are the press and internet, mommies during playgroup, college lectures, 'industry experts', and communications reduced down to headlines but with graphic snapshots or video that are emotionally motivating. But not to the point where someone goes, 'they're so clueless'. Listen, if we want to affect a change in the exec pay abuse, let's leave that out of union disputes because it has little relevance there to the general population...let's take it to the court of opinion. Let's creat a one hour show each week on NBC or something and show 4 execs and detail their excessive pay, what they actually do for a living, what they spend it on, how they live. Let's invade these people's private lives and make them spectacles. Let's detail exactly why Bill McGuire making 60 mill a year or whatever drives up the cost of some poverty stricken woman's healthcare. Let's write novels about it in our editorial pages. Let's step up our examinations of these folks financial and tax records. Let's SPRINGERIZE IT. Let's bring em down that way. Not through unions. put these bastards on the spot. if they think they are entitiled to earn that much and go unscathed and not have their rectums examined in the public opinion court.....if they are going to rob the public, then maybe the public should go on the offensive and make these folks exposed in every way, personal and private. If they are good people, then it will show. If they are truly bastards, then it will be a powerful statement of how morally reprehensible some can be. Not all execs are bad. But too many are way overpaid. Let's hold the overpaid to a higher standard and put them under the microscope. You know, in some cases, you'd see how much some of these folks give to charity.

i don't have the link, but i saw a headline that said HHR was on sales pace for 100k units. maybe someone can find it. it was automotive news, i don't have access to that site.

yup the focus and cobalt test the same on front and side impact, without the side airbags.

yup, its got ancient styling too. it absolutely pains me to say it, but the Lexus is the car to have here. fastest, probably looks the best, has a nice interior. it needs awd and a manual tranny, but if you like RWD and auto its fine. I like the CTS and must say I can't wait for the next one. The BMW lacks style, apparently had all sorts of glitches and has a stupid interior.