regfootball

I would disagree. Some folks might want BMW tightness for a lot less money. Of course, those would be MATURE people....not overly image conscious and pompous BMW 'image' fans. Pontiac can exist and should exist and can thrive as GM's performance division, I just don't buy that every one of their cars would need to be RWD to pull it off. Its got more to do with leading edge hardware, refinement, machinery, building to exacting standards and specifications.......proper driver ergonomics........excellent seats...chassis/weight balance....all stuff that GM has never done well or at all.

the weird thing is I see a buttload of Zephyrs, and very few of any other Lincolns. The LS has never sold well here.

the CTS is an exact reason why RWD Pontiacs appeal may be limited. The CTS is within reach of many young BMW intenders, so if Caddy gets those sales, so you really have anough left for Pontiac? Just a question. I mean, a CTS and then a Pontiac version of the CTS is just as redundant as many of GM's product lines now.

the xterra is a fine piece. the FJ has quirky doors, an s-10 retro dash and other heinous interior bits (the rear cargo plastic is horrible) and traction control that cannot be switched off. The big blind spot I would not want either. It looks like a great big pu$$ymobile. As in, you are what you drive. Nissan would get my money here although I would also be looking at Jeeps. The H3 would get a look also and probably my money, if it had a decent motor. But GM as usual screws something up and a piss poor power output is the H3's downfall. I wonder if Toyota marketing folks bring towels with them when they drop cars off at Edmunds, because they need to wipe the gratuitary evidence off there faces in return for all the glowing reviews they get without fail. At least they don't need to bring butt lube like they do when they drop cars off at Consumer Reports.

well, they all have to learn. If GM is committed to reducing their labor cost there will be some growing pains in the interim. Eventually they will learn their jobs and produce to the same level and then GM will reap the benefits of keeping their costs in line so the consumer will benefit from a competitive priced car.

panther, you're a minority. most of the BUYING public will cross RWD only off their list in snowy climes for convenience. No one cares if you don't, its the MARKET they have to design to. Folks want ease and convenience and a less hassle way of getting around. Why do you suppose infiniti and BMW and Lexus all sell AWD versions of their models>?

well, some folks are paying 20k over MSRP for their GT's.......

oh what does buickman think?

Toyota's Spate of Recalls - Pay the Price for Rapid Growth?

ok, that sounds great. but if its RWD only, who's gonna buy it? Certainly very few north of Kansas. Side note, so you will willingly throw away a car like the Grand Am or G6 and its good 100,000-200,000 volume sales that keep the dealer doors open and keep the cash register ringing and keep buyers shopping GM, knowing full well that many more of those sales lost will go import than Chevy or Saturn. Many diehard GMers won't touch Saturn and vice versa. I do not see any trickle effect from killed Pontiacs over to Saturn. Why not build a KILLER G6 too? More like the concept, with REAL motors, superlative handling, killer seats, and stunning interiors? neither of which sold enough recently to even justify printing up brochures. Although, I like the GTO, they just need to do it right. As long as its not a typical GM redneck wagon, with out of vogue looks and packaging, with too much weight on the front end and the same old Camaro stigma. Coupes don't sell and we have the Camaro coming so I don't see benefit this badge engineered model has. you just spent a whole post preaching on how not to have duplicate offerings between divisions and in one sentence you negate your own viewpoint. The Firebird would essentially be redundant to BOTH the GTO and the Camaro. On top of being a coupe and RWD.....translation, no sales. translation, poor stigma on reviving a car with a really bad public rep and tons of ridicule (trans am jokes etc). Not good if you are trying to emulate BMW, IMHO> Just for kicks! why not! Because rear drive sportwagons sell in such great volume! What is the average lot time for Magnums? 192 days actually........your dealer will love that. So much they will stop writing checks and drop your brand. So your vision of Pontiac is ONE sedan (which is by far and away the most popular car configuration / market in America) with RWD nonetheless which will leave northern state dealers high and dry reagrdless of whether any Buicks have it or not......TWO coupes, because coupes are the HOT market (check those GTO sales)....and a rear drive sportwagon. If you are lucky to hit 60,000 sales with your sedan (which may be tough considering you are peddling a RWD platform) and your coupes are lucky enough to sell 20,000 units each since you are fighting each other.....and the sport wagon maybe sells 10,000 units.....add the Solstice at 25,000 units after demand levels off and you have about 135,000 units which is likely less than the sales volume of the G6 line (and fer sure far below the Grand Am). You might think its all peachy if you add in Buck and GMC sales but GMC sales will stay about the same, maybe go up some.......Buick sales will tank due to lack of product.....Your scenario is touting a setup in which Buick and Pontiac combined maybe sell only 250,000 units combined. If Buickman was 'Pontiacman' even he would be saying you need that bread and butter product for your showroom, that LeSabre, that grand Prix or grand Am. Your plan has no bread and butter 'marquee' / signature products. Every brand needs at least one mainstream hit. Quite honestly, if you tried to pitch your plan to a Pontiac dealer and said, 'we want to cut your sales voume in half', I would love to see if you make it out of the room alive. And those buyers are NOT going to Saturn. Pontiac simply cannot fall that far off mainstream and only limit themselves to RWD cars or niche cars like 2 coupes as their bread and butter. They cannot have THAT narrow a focus. I have no problems with them offering 2 sedan lines with RWD/AWD as long as there is a GP or G6 type car as well that fills the mainstream void and generates sales and showroom traffic. Any non lux brand that attempts to build its core product around mainly coupes or uncommon architectures is suspect. Remember, the Chrysler 300 success has very little to do with drive wheels. Its because of styling and the fact its a 'cheap Mercedes' in terms of marketing the lineage of the car. There needs to be at a minimum a maintenance of the current volume of Pontiac and Buick sales if for not other reason than its enables the cash flow to generate the ability to create the niche products that cannot make their own business cases.

hell bring back YUGO too then

go for the Isuzu ASS ENDER or the 9-7x, just to be different. Bet you could find a smokin Ranier deal. Maybe even a new Bravada still somewhere. I'm not joking about the ASSENDER. they have a larger standard warranty and the dealers are desperate to sell em.

true......true........ one of my last bosses was a MAJOR ASS and he came off that way in the interview. I was hired by another partner though....then that partner left...the company got turned over to the asshole, who ran it promptly into the hole. He decided to become a consultant back to the company after they asked him to leave, although his side of the story is not quite the same. bottom line, TONS of assholes and egomaniacs in the field.

mazda 3 gives you a radio for 15k......

YOU READ MY MIND........and the barely accessible seat belt buckles......the huge ass steering wheels hung out from the dash like a plank off a pirate ship.......

I can buy a new Fusion with a radio for 15k.........

Well, the Toyo dealer was out of Camlees for the week, so they had to buy something!!!

the cobalt is a nice ride and it doesn't surprise me that folks would notice how good it is, even aside a corolla. listen, an entire post war baby boom generation grew up and was taught to loathe America. they were taught to please themselves and that their country was bad. they believed their sh----t did not stink and they were all that mattered. the love of all things honda and toyota was merely a convenient outlet for that sentiment. it was a great way to thumb your nose up at the establishment (GM) at the time and latch on to something supposedly better. I think what you are starting to see the tip of now is.....a realization by all the other age groups in this country that we shouldn't have to conform all our policies, politics and culture to one generation. The older generations recognized the value of service to country and working hard to support others and building around selfless values. The younger generations are backlashing against the corrupt business values and personal values of the twisted baby boom generation. The younger geenration is a more pragmatic and scrappy bunch and is often willing to evaluate things less on what the bully pulpit (CR and friends opinions) says and more on gut instinct and emotion. I think we are seeing an awakening from many groups that perfection doesn't really exist and sometimes 'perfection' is not what you want anyways. Maybe folks these days are becoming selfless enough to not always have to have things JUST SO anymore.

wow...was that at Altru?

burn baby burn disco inferno burn that mutha to the ground

hey do you suppose toyota has had the most cars recalled in the last 18-24 months?

NO!

BMW's volume sellers are available in AWD.

there is no camaro or zeta impala right now. It will be interesting to see if the new Camaro has decent weight distribution and the traditional sledlike leaden musclecar handling prowess or the light balanced feel and exacting handling a BMW has. we do have a malibu SS with a fwd pushrod v6 and a 4 speed if you like.

movie stars need to get knocked down. those pompous pricks make way too much. for putting out crap movies. nearly all movies are crap today.