regfootball

again, for GM to do as well as they did, in spite of this, says something. it's too bad this won't get corrected until Jan. 2009.

if she is being a dud like this NOW, imagine what it will be like 20 years from now. The holding out on sex bit as a tool works great for women to evolve it into leverage for other stuff. Or, it's a symptom of some deeper problem sometimes which you might not want part of. i.e. she could be messed up. Might want to check out other stuff while you can...............commitment is nice, but if there is no ring involved, it ain't commitment yet. Take care of yourself first. Bob, those Catholic American Princesses......it's risky...'no birth control' ya know. The reason they aren't freaks in the sack is all that Catholic guilt. But some of them shed that at some point and become real minxes.

sweet.

show some love to the Edge and MKx. This is what lots of folks want. can't wait to see the mazda numbers.

chrysler sells 7 vehicles per dealer per month lately i thought i read. I know from what buickman told me there are 2800 buick dealers and they likely are not selling much more these days until the enclave arrives. 13,024 was what Buick sold? Not much more. 520 dealers, still more than Saturn I think.

keep in mind the economy is in the $h!ter. foreclosures are abundant and housing permits here are down 53%. Nov 08 cannot come soon enough. New pres cannot be had soon enough. In the meantime, GM is holding its own very well in spite of lack of new models and in spite of high gas prices.

keeps the pipes clean. keeps the seeds in production.

i recommend voyeurweb.com it's free free of spyware and viruses/safe site not gross or demeaning you get about 10-15 minutes in and you got enough for your fix. real women/amateurs, not photoshopped some trailer trash but hey we all love that sometimes they even throw a couple guys on there for the guy guys enjoy 98, nice prose, great stuff, but not everyone has that sort of will power or squeaky clean outlook on the world. porn is alright in smallish doses and if it's not degrading or just flat out fake and sick. Keeps the heart healthy.

ear plugs come with it?

I'm up for the job if you pay me lots and and let me work in my tshirt and shorts at home.

it's moot because guys like me have test driven your 'new car' on the lot and really have driven the snot out of it on the 20 miles we had it.

i am not skilled enough to match the revs to be able to do that without wrecking something.

2 years ago my wife said I could lease a GTO. I wanted to. It fit the budget. it just wasn't practical. small trunk, less mpg, only 2 doors, rwd only. it would be nice to get something you both want and need but when something like the Edge which I like still comes without manual shift control it just pisses me off. There is still a lot of dumb things automakers do to force you go for need instead of want when you could have both.

the answer is e. Weird Al

nice topic. reg style.

2.5 is an eternity in the business world. GM can't afford to be crap for another 2.5 years.

Vegas and Monzas for me then and chevettes for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMNIS TOO

No i omitted the caliber because its a crossover not a sedan. Evo X is cool but I was thinking this thread would maybe not be influenced by something so extreme. that said, there is a Mazdaspeed3 and WRX so i guess the Evo counts then too. I keep the Lancer very high reagardless if the Evo exists or not. When i list the SX4 i mean the sedan version which ok is not quite out yet but you get my drift.

and where's the bluetooth / ford sync competitor?

Wow enzl, WTF? Saturn is trying to build the spirit of people and fans having ownership in a brand and you can just sit there and $h! all over it? Harley for years made a crapload of worthless motorcycles by ricer standards ( I am not a hog fan either)......yet, tell me please which bike brand is most die hard? Sometimes its not all about perfection. I think we see some of that with Saturn. build the fan base in ways where people can invest their enthusiasm, not just their 20 minutes they spend reading consumers reports. We all know where GM vehicles are deficient. What Saturn is doing here is not all about that. Saturn is attempting to re-engage their fan base. I only see Hoyotha doing that with the prius bangers. Show me a bunch of people in this country who have emotional investment in their Toyotas. I would venture to say many Toyota lovers have about as much emotion in their personal relationships too. That group compares nothing at all to the brand loyalty at Daytona bike week. Toyota would rather spend the 21k buying off a southern politician for more big fat American tax breaks than organizing an event to build the fan base. so maybe lay off a bit and allow saturn to see what they can do with this, ok? Besides, this is a GM fansite...and we also happen to be some of GM's biggest critics. Would you expect an enthusiast to write scathing things about their own passion? But what did you expect fly would write? The same biased trash that 3/4 of the Auto 'journalists' do? It's a law you know, that those guys don't get paid for their piece unless they bash GM Ford and the USA relentlessly. my beef with saturn is still the GM card thing.

yes, fly, excellent articles. I wish the trash that permeates Motor Trend these days was half as good.

yeah. i think one FWD car is still worthy in pontiac land at least to allow for more sales $$$ and provide contrast to the RWD G8. I also subscribe to the flybrian theory that many folks over the last 20+ years have grown to love large GM FWD cars and so why slap them in the face right now also. Go home to my parents area or where my inlaws are and large FWD GM cars are as prevalent as BMW 3's in OC. I just look at Chrysler right now. They put ALL their eggs in one basket. The macho Hemi RWD basket and now they are caught with their pants down. The too narrowly focused and somewhat small Avenger and Sebring cannot make up for losing the appeal they had with Sebring and Stratus and LH cars. Now DCX does not have a large fwd car and deserved or not, the 300 has a rep of a fuel sucker (even though the v6 versions probably get ok mileage). Its examples like that they lead me away from any GM division (sans Saab or Caddy or Hummer) getting too narrowly focused while the dealer networks remain as large as they do. If you were to tell me GM had unlimited porject budgets ala Toyota and could refresh new models 39 months on center and have stellar and stunning efforts with each new model I might agree to focus Pontiac etc. a bit sharper but GM is pathetic enough in getting new models up and running the way it is.

great pics, CD.

I ain't gonna get into that again after the Pontiac thread, but on fly's point...know that the TL-s is quite a bit more commodious than the 3 series example he used. Aside from that notable difference, the examples he uses is the deal. For me, I'd be pleased as punch with another well done FWD car like my 89 SHO, or I suppose which is what the TL is today. Mid sized (TRUE mid sized). Strong v6, competent handling....simple design, and good winter get around capabilities. For me with that config I get a car that I know I can get around with every day of the year and it has good space utilization in the cabin. I know the engineers can tune the chassis for as much handling capability as I would ever need, and I know I can still get a firm enough ride. I get the predictable feel I like and no worries about it being tail happy. My limits will be tougher to reach with a good FWD chassis. I might have some torque steer and the steering might be a bit heavy but good engineering can almost eliminate those things. I do like the way RWD based cars drive but for it to be desirable and useful and attractive to me then it's gotta be an AWD variant of it. 25, 30, 35k + is too much $$$$ to spend on a car to have to deal with either the hassle and cost of snows, or to even put ballast in the trunk and even then it's still not a great solution to have to deal with that crap. The hassle of taking far longer than everyone else getting away from stoplights on snowy days. The inability to make it up an icy inclined driveway. Electronics doesn't solve those age old problems as completely despite what some say. I don't 'track race' and I don't drive 'twistys' and I would guess few others do also. I like the steering feel of a RWD vehicle and neutral handling but if the execution is crown vic like as opposed to GTO like then what is the point. In the end my RWD which is a bit heavier to start gets a bit more heavy with the needed AWD. As compared to a FWD/AWD car its a negligable difference but compared to a FWD only setup now there may be some added bulk which may negate the better steering. So it is overall execution that matters most. But I think the everyday virtues a FWD based car brings to the table cannot just be thrown away. And it appeals to a broader x-section of the market, which drives more $$$$$ overall. GM may be wise to work towards 5-6 platforms to satisfy all buyers and markets (cars). a subcompact FWD chassis (maybe need 2 versions of this for all markets, one 'old' , one 'new') a compact to small medium FWD chassis (maybe need 2 versions of this for all markets, like above) a mid to large mid to large FWD based with AWD optional a small medium to mid RWD/AWD optional a mid to large mid to large to very large RWD with AWD optional (ZEta) I would then add Lambdas to that for the Acadias and whatever minivans or ridgeline clones are to come of that. You'd also then have Kappa and Corvette chassis.