regfootball

one point about that though, with longer credit terms and people's desire for SUV's over traditional cars, that plays into it somewhat. If we look at a reasonably equipped midsize sedan, those can be had mid twenties even at times, that's actually an ok deal vs. twenty years ago i think.

but the reality is the charging networks are not yet there. and won't be for a long time. means to recycle batteries and such will improve. but not at a pace that would allow the CAFE to have increased by what was proposed, or by any sensible level. honestly then it was literally asking for huge$$$ to be added to the cost to be spread to every car. At a rate that far outpaces affordability for the consumer. You literally cannot force technology to be rolled out in such a fashion, it literally disrupts the entire economy. And manufacturers shouldn't have to abandon proven technology that is reliable and cost effective. non plug in hybrids are the most sensible interim steps but even those have limits on how fast you can push those out. a malibu like mine, which commonly gets 30 mpg in a gas version, gets 40 mpg in a hybrid version, and so that's a cap of a 33% real increase if everyone abandons a non hybrid for a hybrid. You're not going to get any more than that really for same size car. actually, even having a mandated fuel economy standard at all is really questionable. Emissions standard, maybe. Fuel economy standard, that does not jive with market based economy. If people want better mpg then they will pay for it or buy it.

ugh why does GM have to make every crossover so trucky. The Euros are testing new crossover forms more quickly the GM's of the world. The Trax doesn't need to look like a Tahoe or something. The Encore's appeal was because it didn't look like a truck wannabe.

weight, size, and aerodynamics play the biggest parts in MPG. electrification is the only way to increase the MPG standards at the rates that were ludicrously proposed. To increase at that rate adds far more cost than the market and supply chain can realistically bear. And then there is the reliability of new technology and quite frankly, consumer desire. Not to mention mining toxic materials battery technology etc. So the massive CAFE increase mandates (which in translation means "we are forcing everyone to drive a tiny little shit box they don't want) were political fodder just as much as trying to roll them back is. circle the wagons back around and in the end, you can have 10 speed trannies and CVT's and 1.0 litre motors in Focus and it still comes back to weight and size and aerodynamics. Best policy in the end is incremental and steady increases over time, that are achievable and affordable. For example, if your CAFE is 28.0 now, to in 7-10 years, 34, 35 is not damning. If you want to encourage electrification or alt fuels, tax incentives for developing the technology makes more sense. In 7-10 years, math and physics is still the same, so in the end its still weight, size, aerodynamics.......... wherever we can go to still allow people to drive what they want and suits their needs rather then what the feds force them into. That electricity is tainted energy too, just like any other energy source.

Maybe he'll sell to some Saudi investors.

30,000 mile report Passed the 30,000 mile mark recently. MPG particulars. The first 15,000 miles i averaged 31.4 mpg total. The second 15,000 was 30.9. That's combined. Keep in mind there are heavy doses of winter in there. Recently in the last month or so, the mpg has dropped a fair amount.... like by 2 or so. Back a couple months ago, I achieved a 25 mile best of 52.0 mpg. This is repeatable when conditions are right...that was about a 60mph average with few to no stops and a flat windless gradual downhill, with mild weather and later in the day. I consider the fuel economy of this vehicle to be among the economy car ranks.....amazing considering the size of the vehicle IMO. This fuel economy will be what keeps the midsize sedan class on the market despite crossover popularity. I really could go back to my test drive reviews and other previous observations in this very thread and repeat a lot of my same impressions. So I will try to hit the major themes. And after two years, the newless is worn off and I have had a lot of time to consider what i like and what i don't, and what will happen when my lease is up. -still love the styling, except the front grill is getting tired to me. good thing they are refreshing the front for 2019. This is one of Chevy's best styling jobs in the last decade or more. -good fuel economy performance, as mentioned above -jekyll / hyde powertrain. super smooth and quiet on the highway and at higher speeds. GM 4 cylinders are not supposed to run this smoothly. Times when it is surprisingly sprite and peppy in everyday driving, in that 40+ mph range. Very good interstate car!.......Heavy stop and go, or needing a lot of thrust shows the weakness of the small engine more often than you may want. Slow off the line, lag at times, transmission will wait too long to kick down when you really need it to the most. Can strain and moan alot. Sometimes the lack of low to mid power is dangerous. Weather conditions affect how peppy the engine and turbo are at times. If you don't ask or need a lot of the powertrain, it does well enough. Plenty of upside, plenty of disappointment. I think its borderline and does come down to whether you think the cost of more power and reduced fuel economy, how much it matters to you. More power would always be welcome in a similarly compact and smooth engine with more displacement. 1.5 runs fine on plain 87 garbage gas....in fact, it prefers it. Strange for a turbo... but it really doesn't like higher octane or more expensive premium gas. -room and space, i've come to appreciate the size of the malibu cabin, its about right. A larger car would be fine for when i have passengers more, and for more long trips, but as a family car with one primary driver, I like it. If the other class competitors keep growing in size, however, you would want to keep up with the Jones. -driving position and ergonomics... i think the control layout and other things like that, seating position. I really like. I don't like the claustrophobia from the low roof so much, but i may need to get the big moonroof next time. maybe the gauges could be bigger (if not electronic) and the dash ipod could look less fruity.... and they could improve the touchscreen a bunch. The seating is lower and as i get old keeps getting less convenient to get in and out of, but i like being about this position above the road so i still like it for now. Really love the simple climate controls. I would like to be able to still have part of the screen dedicated to other vehicle functions (like a climate control readout, outside temp etc.) when Apple carplay is in use. -driver's seats, i have to put these in a separate category. I don't like the seats in front. They feel weak and insubstantial. They are narrow for the butt. They seem to flex and move around on their mounts a bit. The power recline doesn't work smooth, it makes bumps along the way. The seat digs into your lower back, and you seem to feel where the lumbar device is even when you have not inflated it. The leather is not awesome and is too grippy sometimes. I may be ok with cloth next time. The seat heaters work good. But you can't get cloth heated seats, which is bullshit. -speaking of carplay, that could warrant a separate post. It's been buggy a lot. For a lot of different things. A lot of stuff works fine and considering it was the first year on the market for that, it's been ok. The system is very sensitive to the quality of the USB cable believe or not. You better be using a genuine Apple cable plugged snugly into the USB port (which is in a highly inconvenient, difficult to reach spot below the dash bulge). I see in the future a better system where your mobile profile is pushed to your car platform in addition to your cell phone, or your phone is accessed wirelessly. Things like streaming apple music for example would work so much better that way. -interior and trim. GM has gotten good at building interiors with good assembly quality. gaps are small and things fit together well. switches and buttons feel good. Some plastics are cheap, but this is a low priced car and so they are not too far off the average for that. The all black interior is a huge downer. Seems to be the only choice most of the time in GM cars these days. And the leather is average at best. The vinyl on the dash inserts could be more interesting and better quality and make me wonder if I wouldn't like the cloth inserts more. GM has to start to get a mix of grays in with the back more in their car insides. Yes other interior colors are available but when you check inventories those are so rare its like they don't exist. And they only offer those on higher trims. Why does Chevy have a hard time offering a mostly tan interior on any of their cars? GM seriously needs to figure out how to get away from death interiors. -trunkspace, is good and very efficient. I like the fuzzy material finish, it's minimal but is not that cheap fuzzy stuff. -ride and drive, i think for a midsize family type car, the ride and drive is very good. The car itself feels light and nimble; very balanced. But yet it is solid and planted on the road. I think that is the best quality about this car. It has a chassis that is tuned pretty good but they have so much potential to do more with this! The steering feels good....you feel the road some, and the steering has good feel and is direct. I could enjoy it even more if it were a bit quicker steer and a small percent less effort but that is real nit picky. It is good. The ride on plain pavement is good and a nice compromise on firm and comfortable. The car corners very well I believe for a car meant to sell cheap and many. When the bumps get more harsh it doesn't tackle those nearly as well however, and the suspension has more trouble. I think that's not too big a deal, just try to avoid the bad pavement, right? Road noise is either really quiet, or on certain pavement types can be very loud. Overall i think its fine for quietness, certainly quieter than the tinny Mazda6. It is very quiet at interstate speeds on the right pavement, so that is good for me. It is more lively a car than its platform mate the Regal. For a light large car that is not meant to be a sport sedan, its pretty good. Which makes me think this platform would really be nice to see GM have a suspension and handling package as a reasonably priced option. I'd like to see a small turbo six in this thing, or a better newer 2.0, paddle shifters, performance suspension on the cheap. The 2019 RS package could be that, rather than just an appearance package (I hope the spoiler can be deleted, this car doesn't deserve a tack on like that). I'm interested to test the 2019 when it comes out to see how the CVT is. I don't know why they don't mate the 9 speed and higher horespower version of the 1.5 from the Terrain / Equinox and put it in the Malibu. I doubt the CVT will give big mpg improvements. It may...or may not make for needed improvement in bottom end response. Overall, its been a great car, apart from the crappy seats, tough engine performance (at times), will consider it again when the time is due..... but will also look at others. Will be ok with a 1.5 again if i decide i still like the mpg. Or may look hard at a 2.0 (why can't i get a simple LT 2.0 with cloth), or a Regal. Unless i go dark side and look at a crossover again. (Blazer) *** edit Love the brakes, like the reviews say, they are awesome brakes. Decisive pedal feel. great stopping power. Only sometimes the brake pedal is too firm. Hard to knock that considering how terrible of brake feel GM cars had in the past. The parking brake needs to be electronic. The old, kick lever below the dash is just not as easy to use as a little finger pull on the console. Would really love a switch to turn off the auto stop when i want to.

AWESOME, CTS is a great car, coincidence, i took a v6 CTS out recently as I had the 2.0 out before. I think they are similarly as fast. The 4 works good in the CTS. Kudos. Nice wheels.

ALSO, nice!

OH YEAH, nice!

i can see why people are not happy about the new front end, but i am getting used to it. The thing for me about it is the headlights are so small. I think the squinty eyed look is getting tired...already.

figuring out how to manufacture and produce products on time and with quality, and satisfying your investors, it's a bitch, isn't it?

EXCITEMENT!!!!!

Many Buick and Cadillac dealers are not 'best price' dealers and are averse to putting one price prices or any prices at all on their websites. Its because for every person they haggle for 2 days over lowest price, is some idiot who comes in and pays much more than they should because they were not told about incentives, nor were given discounts. Those are the stores where product sits, and sits, and sits, until there are two and three year old cars on the lot. But there are still a bunch of dealers that will sell regularly at those bottom like prices because they are volume stores, but because Buick, Cadillac are not average brands they won't advertise their fire sales. Regional incentives, national incentives, loan programs, lease programs, all sorts of targeted cash and dealer discretion / discounts... if they want to move the cars they end up using them. I love a discount like anyone but in the next few months we will even see the inevitable 25 or 30% off MSRP. And even then the cars maybe don't move. If that is the case, then the market is saying they are REALLY overpriced, MSRP wise. The BLAZER is more your style anyways. ! we always had several that sat more than a year on the lot and were carryovers, and didn't move until they really broke open the incentive bank. Incentives are the great equalizer I guess. Meanwhile, Honda probably flips its inventories rather quickly. Are there ever Honda carryovers on their popular models?

I think when i was selling new Suzukis, even those moved off the lot faster than Buicks and their overzealous MSRP's

yeah, they have 2017 leftovers, because they can't sell ridiculously overpriced iron.

this was back from 6 months ago when i emailed my mom regarding regals. you walk into the dealership and not at all shy about it. Now that Regal body was newly outgoing, but the point is why did they need to move 2017's in the first place. and its not atypical for this to go on on any Buick at any time depending on how the mocha sippers behind the screen in the Buick marketing department like to selectively stockpile seen and unseen incentives at will. That particular month they had a slew of Regal Sport tourings all were MSRP 32k and above and they were selling them starting at 18 grand. still sucks my mom didn't take advantage of this. Regal Sport Touring with moonroof nice tan leather, 18 grand.

this is random with a little time on autotrader and google and not at all uncommon from what i see browsing from time to time http://www.everettbgmc.com/VehicleSearchResults?offer=76455410&search=new&year=2017&make=Buick&model=LaCrosse&trim=all&cs:o=76455410 even without the stupid 'dealer trade discount' that is still fairly typical of what you see if you look around at competitive dealerships

I like the Envision a lot, but the terrible plood on the dash might even be a deal breaker for me on that, even if it were a steal on pricing.

The last 2-3 years the Encore has been Buick's entry model and often is sold at prices around the 20 grand mark....more optioned at 20-25k. I don't have numbers for Buick as a whole but the salesguy I talked to recently at a BGMC dealer said the Encore is by far the most popular (Buick) seller at their dealership. Pricing is the big reason. What that says to me, Buicks cannot support European level pricing. So that's why we have 52,000 LaCrosses that they can't even mark down to 40k and move. So to Balthazar's point go look at just about any Buick dealer website anywhere, the ones that post their prices if they have to mark it off 10 grand off sticker, that's an overpriced sticker. GM's tendency the last few years is then advertise 15, 18, 20, 22, 30% off MSRP in national and regional ads and on their own websites. What the hell more proof do you need. It's ridiculous to say they don't have the incentives they used to. That's wrong, they have just as many or more. They haven't blasted the incentives on the Envision as much on the Buicks until about the last 9-12 months or so. Buick has a huge problem with not selling through their model year inventories. There is always a lot of dealers that have still 2017's that are new. By this time next year there will still be tons of 2018 new Buicks rotting on lots everywhere. Why? TOO HIGH MSRP vs what people willingly pay. Buick's terrible at leasing too. 2018 Regal comes out of the gate with a 24 month residual of less than 50%. What does that tell you. People that analyze the market say the MSRP is too high too! So partially the Encore takes some of Envision's sales if the pricing is too close. When the Encore is cheap, why step up to the Envision if it's 10-15 grand more? Unless you like horrible dash PLOOD. Buick's sales would explode if they created great leasing for all their vehicle lines. Buick is perhaps among the most lease averse brands out there. The Encore and Enclave are the only ones that get good lease support, that's why they sell so well. Admittedly the Enclave is such a good product in such a hot segment that it may not need incentives as much as the rest of Buick. But the Encores are heavily subsidized.

GM's strategy on everything the last few years and surely for awhile back even now is to pump up the MSRP's to ridiculous levels compared to the competition and incentivize the hell out of them. Gives the marketing types a reason to keep their jobs, keep changing the incentives twice a month, between regions. They can sit and look at sales spreadsheets on their office computer screens while they sip their mochas. "Oh this month we need to move the GMC Sierras!". and then 'all Sierras 22% off MSRP!' And the other models sit and rot on the lots until they get their turn at special month of incentives. The way Cadillac is going, it may be the next to go, and then we will be glad that Buick is the last remaining premium GM car brand.....because of how well Buick does in China.

Then Pontiac would have also been selling 1.4 and 1.5 litre turbo cars too, to bow to the gods of CAFE like Chevy has had to. Lots of CVT equipped next ever G6's...... May have been best that Pontiac was let to die rather than the 'first ever G2' crossover....... or more Vibes

The Envision is a good vehicle, the MSRP's are far too ambitious, but just if you judge it as a Buick its pretty good. Buick has been kept alive here because of China, and GM benefits from selling mondo vehicles in China. It's not unrealistic to expect them here to import something from China.... IF they export from the US to China too..... Buick doesn't need to sell more than 40,000 Envisions because they shouldn't be playing so much in the compact class anyways with the Terrain in the showroom and the Enclave being what most Buick buyers are really looking for anyways. Buick should have an Edge competitor, like the Enspire concept to compete with Lexus RX etc. Buick needs to add models to gain US volume more than it needs to have more than 40,000 Envisions. I'm not one for big auto tariffs but overall China benefits a lot more from our trade than we do from theirs. That's not any kind of endorsement for anyone's trade strategy. It should be noted that GM is more and more shifting their production of a lot of US sold vehicles to be made across the world. Gradually and sneakily since the 2009 era they keep moving production to other countries. Biggest challenge for the Buick products is to determine global design. The Envision looks like a 2012 retread (the 2019 updates do clean it up some) and with the Opel deal gone, Buick may have to decide if they are committed to producing any of these white space vehicles in the US the next model cycles...... IMO for example the Regal should be revised to be made on the same line as the Malibu since they are bed buddies. What else is kind of interesting, the Envision doesn't seem like it's been here long, and there are not many of them out there. But already now they have established 4 separate model years of the vehicle here in the states. Pretty crazy. That is how the import brands establish a model, sneak it into the market and build the nameplate brand. So now it is becoming an established nameplate for Buick and building the Envision brand name. Shoppers now will be more confident buying the nameplate because its been around 'for awhile'.

The town and country was a lease. My buyout was pretty high but i was surprised to see the market values on the Chrysler vans seemed to be up there. Not in trade perhaps, but buying used. Good to see you got to use yours for minimal $$$. I wasn't gonna buy my three year old. Payments would have been pretty high and it made sense to just lease again. If vans and Chryslers held their value more on trade maybe buying would work for me but i don't want to hang onto a minivan for a long time. Like you mentioned, despite the utility and all the good packaging, the next time around we may go back to the SUV. The value per dollar with the van now is huge. Yes, tremendous trip vehicle. the front seats are great. Your mpg is close to what we get. in fact it gets better with age. LAst trip return leg we got 31+ with four on board. CRAZY. BUt i agree the DIC is optimistic by about the same amount you say.

Last time i was in a Sonata it was buzzy and loud and vibrated through the seats

I am into state's rights, but California has shaped FE and emissions standards too much. It will be interesting to see what sticks here. Federal standards that are predictable and achievable are good. The 54mpg was totally virtue signalling and forcing something that was not going to happen. At the same time, this industry is global and standards for these things need to 'consider' the global arena.