regfootball

the tundra is the pig in toyota's stable, it even looks like it will oink when you look at the grille

lots of town that size don't have great freeway systems yet

excuses. the automakers do their product planning years in advance, so they shouldn't get raked over the coals if the market shifts fast. why wasn't car and driver developing multiple stories simultaneously, and then waiting till the last possible moment to pick which ones were appropriate for this month? Funny when the shoe is on the other foot. Early this decade the press was clamoring for automakers to diversify their product lines and proliferate into every niche possible and have every brand represented in every segment. Then, the press was all about performance and rear wheel drive at any cost. Now, when the gas prices force a quick tectonic shift in the market unforeseen by anyone, they rape the domestic manufacturers for not being able to adapt quick enough. The press is a bunch of hypocrites and they just rewrite what is spoon fed to them anyways. No original thinking, no fresh views. Just regurgitate press releases and all of that. Road and Track is probably the only publication that stays 'even' over the course of time. Most of the internet web sites are fairly useless, and at best are amateurish. I for one am totally appalled that they could not see this shift to 2 dollar gas coming. They should have been ready in print TODAY with articles on all sorts of performance cars and SUV's. Not a bunch of crap on how to improve your mpg 10 percent. No one cares about that this month. Maybe the 'journalists' need to reduce their production time and their lead time down to a couple weeks, huh? No excuses, as they say. Move faster than the market. Newspapers print new stuff every day.

imported magazines are so much better, even if they print them here or not.

if i can make another comment, it generally shows places that are not on the coasts. midwest quite a bit. not a lot of leeches on society deciding they don't have to work and be supported. perhaps these places are where people are simply more hard working and have a much better personal ethic.

sioux falls is a nice place. if you look at the list of these places, please note, these are not considered 'urban' type towns. take that to mean whatever you want. essentially these places are nuts and bolts and without a lot of the nonsense, urban 'issues' and political BS that goes on in other urban centers. a lot of these towns have universities. that helps a lot.

i think he is sincere in wanting to preserve the relevance of our AMERICAN companies in this industry. Also, didn't he own a Chrysler 300?

i so want to see that place sometime?

bismarck fargo sioux falls etc rapid city sure, if you really want to LIVE there...... tell me if those jobs pay anything and then we'll talk

and Jaguar is owned by who?

vue and all the x-vers should be on Epsilon2 if you ask me. or epsilon. why theta even exists? purdue, the L series may have been light but look at midsize curb weights now. and the Aura is not too much more heavy than its competition. its four and sixes are top performers and right up there in mpg too. to compare a 2008 sedan with all its crash and safety stuff to the weak L series is not a valid comparo. the vue interior has a comfort level that is greater than the other cute utes, and is a bit larger and more commodious, for example if you compare the rogue vs. the vue you can partly explain why the vue weighs more. Or drive a sportage and Vue back to back and you understand the extra solidity. to me, the flaw the Vue has with regards to mass is that an Edge is not much more portly and is larger even still and is even in the next class of refinement. empowah's ultimate point i think is that Vue should have been on a clean sheet design to this i agree. Seriously, GM can build about 15-20 cars on the epsilon chassis, why don't they?

nope. the one in the mall near me is still open, and is remaining open. maybe bankrupt, but still open.

that cobalt steering wheel is not that bad. it feels fine, just looks cheap. that and the seats are a legit concern, but it won't stop anyone from buying the car.

as far as cutting brands, GM is waiting to see if the merger goes through. then, you will see brands cut. DODGE JEEP CHRYSLER jeep will be sold. I feel Chrysler gets laid to rest. same thing with dodge. what GM is waiting on is to see if they are able to kill those brands, not their own (Pontiac, Buick). Saturn is untouchable as it is and where they are taking it, Chevy and Caddy also. Saab is too unimportant to be involved in this. So IMO Pontiac and Buick's future waits while we find out what happens to Dodge and Chrysler. It will be cheaper to kill those brands than Buick and Pontiac. GMC will just get folded into 'Chevy Commercial' over time. Chevy = Chevrolet world products (GMDAT, GMNA) Saturn = GME Caddy = Caddy Buick and Pontiac = ? Chrysler = nostalgia t-shirts sold at Steve and Barry's Dodge = logos on NASCAR jackets

by the way, have you driven an Aura? the 4 cylinder has nuts and gets better mpg than many of its lighter competition.

the used 5 would be nice. i did drive an outback sport also. in my mind its a better more of a piece vehicle than the forester, but the forester has much better utility. the boxer engines are growly to me. as good as the escape is now finally for 09, the purchase price of the 6 cylinder is so low, if you want the automatic you should really just test drive both and see what you prefer. it sucks that gas prices fluctuate so much now. right now with 2 dollar gas, the real world dollar advantage of 2-3 additional mpg probably doesn't justify itself, four vs. six. and the flip side to that is, is a small 6 cylinder CUV much more efficient than say, a Suburban? Show her the Flex and Taurus X if she still likes the Forester. Truthfully though, if she is really satisfied with the Subarus then its easy to understand why she'd want to be a repeat customer. Their products just lack heft and security and solidity to me. Ultimately i guess my point in this thread is I was greatly surprised how vastly improved the Vue is and how much I enjoyed it as a vehicle. You can seriously enjoy it as a canyon carver and day to day driver, and it does not feel cheap or thin. It feels substantial, and serious and has a nice interior. The impression it left me was that it is an upscale premium entry in this segment, and well worth the extra weight it may be carrying around. I found the engines to be quite sprite (the 6 really has some serious kick to it) and at least as far as tactile quality in interiors and driver interface I do not feel it has an equal peer in this segment. The difference between the old Vue and this one is shocking. and so i feel to use the Vue as the purveyor of hybrids for GM has complete merit as well. Its one of those vehicles that if people actually got into and took for a spin, they would form an opinion for themselves that is quite different than some of the generalizations being made on the internet. My reservations on the Vue in its first year are some apparent quality issues, and styling. GM had better clean those up.

the weight helps it drive better. and is not as big an mpg penalty as you think. sort of like the same way a Jetta weighs more than its competition. but if you won't open up the mind enough to drive one to see how it drives.......

36 months of silence....LOL seriously though, Mariner Voga. Myself, I just don't see ponying up extra for the hybrid, but I realize its a hot feature. I saw a Vue Hybrid over lunch. I would say the CRV is a more well finished machine than the Forester. I have not driven the CRV however. If i really were forced to buy a Honda cute ute, it would be the Element. I actually like that vehicle, even though it suffers from cheap plastics and bad mpg. To me the function of that vehicle over the CRV is well worth it. The RAV4 rental i had one time was one of the worst cars I have driven. The Kia Sportage I had one time was not all that bad, and is significantly cheaper, but its 'just a Kia'. The 09 escape engines are way smoother and the ride and handling are very good. An the whole, the Escape feels like a good midsize car, just taller and slower steering. I should mention that my forester test drive was a manual. Aside from the cheapness and tippyness, the shifter felt awful. Very rubbery and transmits all sort of vibration and such to the hand. The boxer motor is a bit of a growler. The Escape manual's shifter was good, had a nice feel to the hand but was very notchy. I expected it to break in. It had a great hydraulic clutch. Power was decent to very good, i think with another 20-30hp that Escape manual would be a superstar. The new 2.5 engine is quite smooth. Its very quiet. I dropped any notion of getting a Focus or Cobalt after I drove the Escape manual. The escape manual, you CANNOT GET SYNC!!!!!!! The Vue 4 cylinder is a little loud but not coarse. The one I drove had tapshift for the 4 speed. You had to thumb down to 3 on inclines because its geared to keep the 4 cylinder in the powerband, this is a legitimate concern for going 70+ mph but in in town driving its what makes it sprite. I would like to see a Vue BAS2 with 6 speed automatic. From a cargo standpoint, the Outlander has the best packaging to me. I like the interior on that one also, with leather.

the thread said smorgasbord and I got hungry. I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE ABOUT FOOD!

CTS coupe is indeed pushing the limits of this. Who cares though because I am all for the CTS wagon!

CTS coupe is indeed pushing the limits of this. Who cars though because I am all for the CTS wagon!

forget the hybrid. get an escape XLT, save the 10-12 grand, enjoy the ROCK SOLID RIDE AND THE SYNC SYSTEM better yet, go show her a Mariner Voga edition and she will be sold on the spot. then tell me if you can even stomach that subaru.

DRIVE ONE AND THEN TELL ME IF YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT the 4 cyl vue is 3800 pounds.

also, don't believe the hype on this. the 4 cylinder Vue has some nuts under the hood. when i test drove it, i had to go look at the sticker again because i was in disbelief at how much gusto it had. I don't hear the same things about the CRAWLING RECREATIONAL VEHICLE